Dizzyness and shaking the day after a long ride

[bikenh]

Went on nice 205 mile ride back on Monday. By far it was the best average times I've seen ever for the first leg of the course I used. Normally it takes over 2 hours to get down there. Monday it took 1:53 to get there. I was surprised and I knew I was doing over a 19 mph average even though I didn't have a speedodometer on the bike. I make up a cheat sheet and take it with me that shows major stops and what time I should to get to each stops based on average speed.

The ride went well, the pavement could have been better in a few spots but I can't complain...it won't help any now that the ride is over. During A ride normally if I'm not drinking enough I'll start to feel it in the back...aka, the kidneys. They will start hurting. All I have to do is drink more water and the pain will go away. On occasion during long ride and even once on a short ride I've had another problem that I've asked about before and since I haven't been able to give the best discreption, I haven't been able to get the best help on what is causing that problem. I think it may be where I'm looking while I ride. I have been trying to change that while doing long rides and I haven't had the problem recently...thankfully.

Monday I came up with another problem. I think I know what happened in true reality but I'm hoping someone suggests something else. I thought I was eating plenty and drinking plenty.

i had averaged 17.36 mph. Not my fastes but it wasn't far from it being this early in the year and a lot of the ride I was much higher than that for average. It wasn't until the 168 mile mark that I finally feel below 18 mph. I haven't average 18 yet even for a lowly 100 miler.

As I got home I knew I was whooped. I don't remember a thing after I got home. I think I pretty changed clothes...at least I think I did, and went to bed. When I got up on Tuesday that's when the trouble began. Not only was I dizzy but my hands were also shaking(uncontrolably). I was out of it. I tried to eat breakfast HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I ended up braking the Corningware dish I had fixed oatmeal in. It feel off my lap when I snoozed back to sleep. I'm not sure if I had my legs crossed at the time...quite often I do when I sit, or it they were both flat on the floor. Given I felt asleep/dizzy/shaking I'm not surprised it ended up happening. As I remember back I felt it try to slip once and put it back in place...like an idiot. I didn't catch it the second time.

At some point in time during the day...in amongst sleeping most of it, I did step on the scales and saw I lost 10 pounds on the ride. Considering I was downing around 300 calories each hour I was surprised to see that much of a weight lost.

I know on one of the other long haul rides I also lost right around 10 pounds and I had no other effects than just feeling empty and a bit tired...no dizzyness or shaking. This time it really through me. I had a bit of both the shaking and "dizzyness" on Wednesday even. I still feel rundown. Granted I understand that thanks to the weight loss. I'm really surprised at how much weight I lost. I wasn't expecting that. Would the weight loss also cause the dizzyness and shaking or what else might cause it. I didn't notice the symptoms at all during the ride. It wasn't really until morning that I noticed the symptoms. Can anyone explain this>

[CbadRider]

The 10 pounds sounds like it is mostly fluid loss, since you need to burn 3500 calories to lose a pound of fat.

The dizziness, sleepiness, and shaking sound like the symptoms of "hitting the wall" or bonking. That happens when your body gets so depeleted it can't function very well.

My advice is to start taking in calories and fluids. If you're having trouble eating, maybe start with chocolate milk.

[bikenh]

I was eating 300 calories per hour. I thought I was drinking enough as well since I didn't have the kidneys screaming at me. They have always screamed at when I'm not drinking enough. Normally after they scream at me I haven't lost that kind of weight.

After just checking http://www.ridewithgps.com/routes/1099813 I do see the ride had 12500 vertical of climbing. I thought it was suppose to be a fairly flat ride, 5-6000. I did change the route part way through when I saw I was going fast enough I thought I'm here let's do it. I've been trying to ride all the marked highways west of Interstate 93 in NH within one year. I still have some up north(2 rides definitely saved until first day of summer time frame when I have maximum daylight(240-250 miles a piece, hopefully all daylight...could be interesting) and then only have Manchester/Nashua area to deal with in true respects otherwise I've hit the rest of the state on the west side of I-93 and even some on the east side. On the bad areas I used to have was the west side of Manchester and Rt 3A between Manchester and Concord. I decided to pick both of them off and have that headache off my list.

[chasm54]

Exhaustion/dehydration would be my guess. Yu'd have done better to eat and drink before going to bed. By the time you woke up in the morning you must have been pretty much depleted...

[Machka]

Dehydration springs to mind.

You say you thought you were drinking enough (because your kidneys weren't bothering you!! ... that suggests another medical difficulty) ... but exactly how much did you drink over the 200K?

[njkayaker]

During A ride normally if I'm not drinking enough I'll start to feel it in the back...aka, the kidneys. They will start hurting. All I have to do is drink more water and the pain will go away.

???

Oy!

It would seem that waiting until your kidneys hurt to drink means you are waiting too long!

but exactly how much did you drink over the 200K?

It was a "200M" (200 miles). That is, a 320K.

[Carbonfiberboy]

Yeah, massive dehydration. The other problems are probably due to a severe electrolyte imbalance. Of course one would burn all one's glycogen on such a ride, but that should only drop a couple of pounds, one for the carbs and one for the water that goes with it. Most of us experience a weight gain rather than weight loss immediately after a long ride because we eat so much and get so well hydrated during the ride. I'd say the OP is very lucky it didn't turn out a lot worse.

[bikenh]

I always drink a liter of water at each stop which normally comes each 1-1.5 hours depending on route. Some of the stops were a bit longer this time due to the route, where water was available. The problem is when you don't have many other options for where to get water you can only do what you can do by carrying water with you, hence why I like using one liter pop bottles rather than bicycle water bottle.

I can't say I've ever experienced a weight gain after a ride. Before a ride YES, after NO.

When I got home I pretty much feel asleep instantly. I don't really remember anything after getting off the bike and walking down the driveway. I know when I did my 200 miler back on the last day of winter, much cooler temps admittedly, I got home and I remember what I said...I hated it with a passion...I said "Ah, just give me a headlight and fill up the water bottle and heck lets make it 300 miles." I felt like I had even did anything yet.

The stops in that ride were probably a bit further apart than the stops this time...except for the first stop this time which is a 36 mile haul with nothing on the road at all, no gas stations, no nothing. How do you say barren waste land.

I kinda figured everything was food and water related but I figured I would ask. I keep forgetting water doesn't have calories, it just has weight so it adds up much quicker than food.

[Machka]

I always drink a liter of water at each stop which normally comes each 1-1.5 hours depending on route. Some of the stops were a bit longer this time due to the route, where water was available. The problem is when you don't have many other options for where to get water you can only do what you can do by carrying water with you, hence why I like using one liter pop bottles rather than bicycle water bottle.

I don't understand ... do you wait till the stops to drink? So you don't drink at all for 1 to 1.5 to 2 hours ... and then you drink 1 litre all in one go? (I think I'd be sick!)

Why not get yourself a couple 1 litre water bottles to carry on the bicycle, and sip every 10 minutes or so. You should be drinking at least one 750 ml bottle every 1 to 1.5 hours, depending on weather and exertion. And it is good to have a 500 ml or 600 ml drink at the stops (I like things like coke, iced tea, and orange juice). But your body processes liquid better when you sip than when you try to chug a litre all at once.

Also, when you do that, what do you have in the way of electrolytes? Do you eat a bag of potato chips or take electrolyte tablets?

[Carbonfiberboy]

Randos always go by the elapsed time. So you were about 11-1/2 hrs. in the saddle. What was the elapsed? How frequently did you pee? Yes, and how much salt and other electrolytes? What were those 300 cal./hr? Zefal makes the liter water bottles which fit ordinary bottle cages:
http://www.amazon.com/Zefal-Water-Bo...4944125&sr=1-1

[dave5339]

If it was me with those symptoms I'd have to say it was dehydration and an electrolyte imbalance. When I did my 200K I was down about 4-5 pounds after the ride and I know it was all fluid loss.

Semper Fi

[bikenh]

I will fess last year was definitely different than this year. Last year all I could do was ride on the uprights on the handlebars. I would hardly ever (2-3% of the time) ride on the brakehoods. I couldn't stand to. For some reason since I have switched over to the new bike I mostly ride on the brakehoods or the drops. On the 200 miler I probably did 90%+ of the ride on the brakehoods. In the same respect I normally wouldn't even think of drinking while riding. I don't know it was about the old bike. I never used to have the problem with it but when I got back on it in 2010 I sure was noticing the trouble. Things have been changing around thanks to the new bike. I don't mind the eating or drinking while riding as much as I used to. Now to just get the mind conditioned that way. Fun challenge.

Right now I normally do just wait until I get to a stop before I end up eating or drinking.

Also, when you do that, what do you have in the way of electrolytes? Do you eat a bag of potato chips or take electrolyte tablets?

Generally I eat one of the oversized Little Debbie Fudge Cakes. It something that isn't dry and goes down well with me. If I remember, unlike Monday, I normally carry a couple of bananas with me as well.

Thanks for the link to the Zefal water bottle. I've been using a pop bottle and putting it a regular water bottle holder...a Zefal plastic water bottle holder that easily moves around so I can fully and securely put the water bottle all the down into it. The trouble has been trying to find a pull top that has the same screw on top as a one liter pop bottle. I thought I may have hit the jackpot this morning to no avail. The threads weren't the same. I know of another one I can try and may very try next week when I get back to that store. I like the one liter bottle better as they carry more water than a regular water bottle.

[Machka]

I doubt those Little Debbie Fudge Cakes have much in the way of electrolytes ... try salted almond and potato chips next time.

[berner]

Awesome ride.

My money is with everyone else - dehydration. I have found the even though I perspire heavily, on the bike it appears as if I perspire very little. Also I do not feel particularly thirsty and must be very deliberate about drinking. Even on very hot humid days here in Rhode Island where temperature may be 85F and relative humidity about 85%, as long as the bike is moving I feel cool and the skin is dry. However, the body is still perspiring moisture that then evaporates to produce the cooling effect. I feel I drink plenty but then notice during the evening I drink about two quarts of water. The evaporative cooling effect tricks the body into shuting off the thirst response.

My longer rides during mid summer are 40 to 70 miles. The sure way to determine dehydration is to monitor the color of urine. If it gets darker than clear, drink up. In 200 miles, If I were able to ride that far, I'd probably drink 8 or 10 liters or more.

[Dudelsack]

I'm guessing you are single. My wife would have dragged me to the hospital if I were showing those symptoms.

[Carbonfiberboy]

Awesome ride.

My money is with everyone else - dehydration. I have found the even though I perspire heavily, on the bike it appears as if I perspire very little. Also I do not feel particularly thirsty and must be very deliberate about drinking. Even on very hot humid days here in Rhode Island where temperature may be 85F and relative humidity about 85%, as long as the bike is moving I feel cool and the skin is dry. However, the body is still perspiring moisture that then evaporates to produce the cooling effect. I feel I drink plenty but then notice during the evening I drink about two quarts of water. The evaporative cooling effect tricks the body into shuting off the thirst response.

My longer rides during mid summer are 40 to 70 miles. The sure way to determine dehydration is to monitor the color of urine. If it gets darker than clear, drink up. In 200 miles, If I were able to ride that far, I'd probably drink 8 or 10 liters or more.

I use Endurolytes to stimulate thirst. That works. I take as many Endurolytes as necessary to make me drink enough water so that I'll pee about every 2 hours, 3 at the most. That timing is what I keep track of, not the quantity of water. So if I haven't peed in a while, I'll take more Endurolytes or more frequently. Not accidentally, that also keeps my electrolytes in balance without having to think about it.

[bikenh]

I use Endurolytes to stimulate thirst. That works. I take as many Endurolytes as necessary to make me drink enough water so that I'll pee about every 2 hours, 3 at the most. That timing is what I keep track of, not the quantity of water. So if I haven't peed in a while, I'll take more Endurolytes or more frequently. Not accidentally, that also keeps my electrolytes in balance without having to think about it.

Simple problem there is I normally am always peeing once ever 1-1.5 hours. If it's a real hot day and I'm doing 200 miles than I may end up going less often by the end of the ride otherwise I'm pretty much going once 1.5 hours max. Today on the 140+ miler I rode I went 6 times in 10 hours total time gone from home plus I went immediately as I got home.

Like I said this is normal. Recently things went rather unusual and I was peeing practically once every 30 minutes even though I wasn't drinking anything at all for several hours. I still can't figure out what the trouble was but I've had this off and on over the past several months now.

[Carbonfiberboy]

OK, then it's like Machka said and your electrolytes are way down. Normally, electrolytes enable your body to hold water. Otherwise it just pees it out. There's a good chance that you're flirting with hyponatremia. Try this: buy a bottle of Endurolytes:
http://www.hammernutrition.com/produ...-energy-drinks
You could use NUUN, too, but I'm more familiar with Endurolytes.
Fill one of these with them:
http://www.hammernutrition.com/produ...ent-organizers
and shove the purse up your shorts legs. Put another purse of them in your bag.

Take 1-2/hour, the whole ride. Some people take up to 6/hour. Depends on how much you sweat. Reduce your water intake until you only pee every 2-3 hours. 6 times in 10 hours is way too much. I normally only pee at controls, about every 50 miles, so that's where that timing comes from. I'm friends with an ultra racer who claims that if you're going hard enough, you never have to pee. But I don't go that hard. Still, how you gonna get 'er done if you lose your bunch peeing that often?

[Machka]

Simple problem there is I normally am always peeing once ever 1-1.5 hours. If it's a real hot day and I'm doing 200 miles than I may end up going less often by the end of the ride otherwise I'm pretty much going once 1.5 hours max. Today on the 140+ miler I rode I went 6 times in 10 hours total time gone from home plus I went immediately as I got home.

Like I said this is normal. Recently things went rather unusual and I was peeing practically once every 30 minutes even though I wasn't drinking anything at all for several hours. I still can't figure out what the trouble was but I've had this off and on over the past several months now.

Your normal situation is ... normal.

Once every 30 minutes is not normal.

On your next ride, try focussing on eating salted almonds, potato chips, hot chips with salt (french fries), salty fast food, bananas and dried apricots, chicken noodle cup-a-soup, etc.

For quite some time now, we've been eating a bowl of those oriental noodles (really cheap, just add hot water) for breakfast before a big ride. They've got carbs and sodium which both give us a good start, especially on hot rides here. You might try them for breakfast ... and they would have also been a good choice as soon as you got in from the ride.

[bikenh]

Your normal situation is ... normal.

Once every 30 minutes is not normal.

On your next ride, try focussing on eating salted almonds, potato chips, hot chips with salt (french fries), salty fast food, bananas and dried apricots, chicken noodle cup-a-soup, etc.

For quite some time now, we've been eating a bowl of those oriental noodles (really cheap, just add hot water) for breakfast before a big ride. They've got carbs and sodium which both give us a good start, especially on hot rides here. You might try them for breakfast ... and they would have also been a good choice as soon as you got in from the ride.

I have to fess Machka you do differ with the comment right above yours. It is one question I've wanted the answer to for ages...what is the norm on regularity of peeing, especially the RAAM boys and the guys doing the 1200K.

One thing I stumbled into at the store recently...looking around for foods with higher sodium or potassium content. Forget everything you mentioned above and go for raisin bran. Eat it dry...the heck with it. I haven't found anything that has as high of content of sodium and potassium as raisin bran and it is also high in calories with most of it appearing to be carbs. A regular sized box of RB having 2300 calories(10 servings). Each serving has around 300 mg of both sodium and potassium. I plan to try it out the next time I head out for a long ride. I have to admit I did lose 10 pounds on the 144 milers I did back on Thursday but I felt fine on Friday. Thursday wasn't borderline 90 degrees like it was last Monday when I had the dizzyness/shaking problems come Tuesday. Rather I saw only as high as 61 degrees instead on Thursday. I kepts wandering why it seemed like my average speed was slow. I knew the air density was higher but I didn't realize just how much of an uphill(literally) battle I was also fighting. The route had a lot more climbing than what I figured it had. 205.7miles @ 12453' climbing vs 144.1 miles @ 9591' climbing. Instead of the climbing coming spread out over the distance it was coming bunched up together as well.

[znomit]

Once every 30 minutes is not normal.

If I drink Heed I have to stop every 30 minutes to pee. I think its the Xylitol as it happens with other products I try now and then.