Is it possible to inform cyclists about annoying bicycle lighting?

[Burton]

The only lighting I can imagine being an issue or annoyance at night would be strobe-type lights which can be annoying for both the owner as well as other drivers. Annoying to the owner because a strobe mode doesn't provide effective light to drive by.

Anything else I would expect to be directed at the ground otherwise the bike driver would have no light to drive by. The idea that anyone might actually aim any light 1,000 yards ahead and still have any usefull light is ridiculous. The only lights I'm aware of that have that kind of range are military HID weapons lights that cost over $1,300, use over 35W of power and put out over 3,500 lumens. Anyone who thinks otherwise has a very poor sense of distance and probably won't be much of a danger to anyone else for very long.

[znomit]

This thread is for anyone who has an idea, a slogan, or any other mental "cattle prod" that could somehow steer bicycle users into giving a "hoot" when using their lights on bicycle trails or area where they directly blinding or otherwise disturbing pedestrians.

Walk the trail with a 1000lm torch in your pocket. Shine it in their eyes as they ride past.
Several things might happen:

• Not hurt them at all because its impossible for a bike light to dazzle someone.
• Teach them a valuable lesson in courtesy.
• Provoke an escalation in the lumen race.
• Get your teeth kicked in.

[cehowardGS]

What are you yelling about and what is your point?? Good god, freakin 70 year olds yelling about crap that we don't care about.

I PERSONALLY apoligize to YOU for BENDING YOUR EYES and TWISTING YOUR HEAD TO READ MY POST!!!

I was trying to keep it a secret that I had the "across the internet twisting/holding power"

I didn't want everybody to know I have that power. However, the secret is out, and now everybody knows I have the power to MAKE SOMEONE READ MY POST!!!!

[Richard Cranium]

OK- well I guess most of you never ride in popular urban trail/sidewalk park areas.

There have numerous incidents I have experienced where the "air-heads" I have joined to ride with all operate their lights for "optimal" road setup when we are an urban trail on in a park where longer range bright lights do more "annoying" than illuminating. This is happening in group rides and certain popular urban areas near schools and night life venues.

All I was getting at - the light you need to save you for the "left-turn" idiot is not a good thing when aimed at pedestrians outside of Joe's bar. And the blinky that warns a driver at 500 yards really pisses me of on a trail where there is no auto traffic.

My point is, just because you have a "big one" you don't have to show it to everybody, all the time - especially when you are not having sex........

[colleen c]

Walk the trail with a 1000lm torch in your pocket. Shine it in their eyes as they ride past.
Several things might happen:

• Not hurt them at all because its impossible for a bike light to dazzle someone.
• Teach them a valuable lesson in courtesy.
• Provoke an escalation in the lumen race.
• Get your teeth kicked in.

Or blind them temporary and make them crash and say "Did I do that?", just like Urkel will say.,

[maximushq2]

Or blind them temporary and make them crash and say "Did I do that?", just like Urkel will say.,

Haha, hi colleen c I haven't heard that saying in a while. I must be really fortunate b/c around here once the sun goes down everyone magically vanishes from the bike paths and even the streets start emptying out pretty early. On the rare occasion that I come upon a pedestrian on a bike path, I just dim my bar light to 5% and even tilt it downward a bit until I pass them. My light has the O-Ring mount which is easy to tilt down and then back up. I usually use my Lupine Betty on the bars and at 5% it is comes out to about 87.5 lumens which doesn't seem to irritate anyone especially when tilted down a lot. I set my 1,750 Lumen Betty to a 3 step setting, which leaves me with 1,750, 700, or 87.5 lumen settings. 700 lumens seems to be plenty for the streets and I haven't had any issue using this setting. I have a helmet mounted light too, but that is not used on the street, but when I get further away from civilization I use it as needed.

[mtbikerinpa]

The Niterider halogen dual has seemed to serve well here. The 10watt spot beam is set for about 50-60 ft in front and the 20w flood is wide angle but useless at 50 percent of the range of the spot. Typically I use the spot as the default or the flood for the low speed urban. The pair together has enough power that the cars who "High" beam to greet turn down in response to a dual beam hit. Rear blinker systems are more important for safety than front in this area but the high power headlight is useful in its own way.

The point of dazzling the traffic being a concern is somewhat wishful in my opinion. The times I have run my 1 watt Niterider tail light and Vistalite LeD both on steady the traffic treated me like a mailbox and with the same courtesy. When all lights are set to blink, including a blue/red wheel flasher, the traffic goes sometimes into the opposite shoulder. If that's what it takes then its what I will do. That test was conducted with a reflector traffic guard vest btw.

Once I had a cop pull me over on bike(for another issue), and he tried to say my light was not to spec. PA law says vehicle headlight and taillights shall be visible FROM 500 ft. He said it had to be casting a beam TO 500 ft. He backed down when I told him his squad crown-vic couldn't do that...

[cehowardGS]

The Niterider halogen dual has seemed to serve well here. The 10watt spot beam is set for about 50-60 ft in front and the 20w flood is wide angle but useless at 50 percent of the range of the spot. Typically I use the spot as the default or the flood for the low speed urban. The pair together has enough power that the cars who "High" beam to greet turn down in response to a dual beam hit. Rear blinker systems are more important for safety than front in this area but the high power headlight is useful in its own way.

The point of dazzling the traffic being a concern is somewhat wishful in my opinion. The times I have run my 1 watt Niterider tail light and Vistalite LeD both on steady the traffic treated me like a mailbox and with the same courtesy. When all lights are set to blink, including a blue/red wheel flasher, the traffic goes sometimes into the opposite shoulder. If that's what it takes then its what I will do. That test was conducted with a reflector traffic guard vest btw.

Once I had a cop pull me over on bike(for another issue), and he tried to say my light was not to spec. PA law says vehicle headlight and taillights shall be visible FROM 500 ft. He said it had to be casting a beam TO 500 ft. He backed down when I told him his squad crown-vic couldn't do that...

Very good points!!

[cehowardGS]

Annoying bicycle lights oppose to this!

http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/bicyc...g-1428310.html

This rider was riding in the kind of traffic that I ride in everyday. Cars and trucks moving fast and close all the time. Would better lights have helped this rider? I dunno, maybe they would, and maybe they wouldn't. But, I would rather have good better than average bright lights and got an idea that everybody sees me than not to have them. Riding in this kind of arena is no way anywhere near like riding on an MUP or bike trail.

This guy was 53 years old.. A dam waste!!

[znomit]

When all lights are set to blink, including a blue/red wheel flasher, the traffic goes sometimes into the opposite shoulder. If that's what it takes then its what I will do.

Hope there wasn't a ninja cyclist coming the other way.

[randomgear]

Maybe in the next generation of bike light design we'll find both low shaped beams and high conical beams with a control easily mounted next to your grips. Not dissimilar from what is standard equipment in cars. Perhaps, if the geniuses at B&M, Schmidt, or Lupine, begin channeling their inner Steve Jobs, the lights can even be equipped with camera style facial recognition and be self dimming when approaching oncoming pedestrians. Unfortunately, Looking at the latest Mountain Bike light shootout, most light manufacturers seem to only be interested in sheer candlepower and runtime.
I frequently ride on a lighted MUP, (Southwest Corridor Park) and find that the shaped low beam style light (B&M IQ Fly) is ideal, it lights the path and when well adjusted, doesn't shine into the eyes of oncoming cyclists and peds. One drawback of a shaped beam is that when riding on dark unlit road/paths it sometimes looks like there is always a path in front of you, especially if I am tired.
If I were riding on the unlit Minuteman Commuter Bikeway at night, (no lights, lots of tree cover and no fog lines on the sides of the path) I would probably be running a standard conical style beam. Dimming for pedestrians would be a problem.

[contango]

Now that technology has given virtually any old "schmo" the ability to outfit their bicycle with blinding bicycle lighting products is there any chance that bicycle lighting manufacturers can effectively stress how important it is to operate their lights correctly? Or will it be just another case of technology being abused by mostly thoughtless, perverted or just plain ignorant people?

This thread is for anyone who has an idea, a slogan, or any other mental "cattle prod" that could somehow steer bicycle users into giving a "hoot" when using their lights on bicycle trails or area where they directly blinding or otherwise disturbing pedestrians.

It has already become apparent to me, when using local urban bicycle trails that most riders turn on front flashing lights that aim directly at all the trail users they encounter. This has added yet another negative aspect to using some of these trails late into the evening.

I can only imagine it will continue to grow as a problem and annoyance. Will bicycle lights eventually create safety issues among the trail-using cycling public?

Your thoughts and comments on this matter are requested.

It's highly doubtful. If people can't be bothered to take a few moments to consider their fellow man nothing written in a handbook is going to change that.

If someone has lights adjusted such that they blind oncoming road users some will be doing it because they don't realise and will respond well to being told, others will tell you to (expletive) off out of their face and they'll (expletive) do what they (expletive) well like.

Unfortunately, as Whiteknight said, if people are riding on unlit paths that might feature animals they will want lights that will let them see those animals well ahead of time. For all many people try and avoid upsetting other path users, safety trumps convenience any day.

[HawkOwl]

It's highly doubtful. If people can't be bothered to take a few moments to consider their fellow man nothing written in a handbook is going to change that.

If someone has lights adjusted such that they blind oncoming road users some will be doing it because they don't realise and will respond well to being told, others will tell you to (expletive) off out of their face and they'll (expletive) do what they (expletive) well like.

Unfortunately, as Whiteknight said, if people are riding on unlit paths that might feature animals they will want lights that will let them see those animals well ahead of time. For all many people try and avoid upsetting other path users, safety trumps convenience any day.

For Richard Cranium(Dick Head?) Lights are on the bike for the same reasons they are on motor vehicles, safety. Seems to me if you are annoyed it should be at the light manufacturers and the government standards folks. Instead of spending your energy lambasting other riders it could be better spent persuading the government to set standards in the same way they set standards for automotive lighting and then encouraging manufacturers to follow the standards.

[contango]

Lights are on the bike for the same reasons they are on motor vehicles, safety. Seems to me if you are annoyed it should be at the light manufacturers and the government standards folks. Instead of spending your energy lambasting other riders it could be better spent persuading the government to set standards in the same way they set standards for automotive lighting and then encouraging manufacturers to follow the standards.

The key difference is that it's hard to adjust a car's headlights to point them upwards and into the opposing lane. A badly adjusted bike light can easily point just about anywhere.

[HawkOwl]

The key difference is that it's hard to adjust a car's headlights to point them upwards and into the opposing lane. A badly adjusted bike light can easily point just about anywhere.

Don't drive at night much do you? It is common to encounter vehicles with mis-adjusted lights.

In any case that is part of the standard setting process. Instead of allowing anything and everything to operate a bike at night it would have to be equipped with specified lighting. Such standards exist for boats, motor vehicles, airplanes, etc. Maybe it is past time for bicycles to have their standards.

[cehowardGS]

safety trumps convenience any day.

[contango]

Don't drive at night much do you? It is common to encounter vehicles with mis-adjusted lights.

Maybe it is around your way. I don't see all that many of them (excluding the people who leave their full beams on, or have a single headlight out), and the fact remains that when a headlight is fixed to the car it's much harder to point it somewhere random than when it's strapped to a round handlebar and can be twisted to just about any angle.

In any case that is part of the standard setting process. Instead of allowing anything and everything to operate a bike at night it would have to be equipped with specified lighting. Such standards exist for boats, motor vehicles, airplanes, etc. Maybe it is past time for bicycles to have their standards.

Sounds about as practical as expecting cyclists to have licenses. Somewhere along the line you either have to require 3-year-old Jimmy to have an approved light fitted to his bicycle, or leave cops on patrol trying to figure whether a cyclist is old enough to require standard lights. Then you've got the obvious defence of "my lights were stolen and I had to get home". Can't see that one actually working in practise.

[HawkOwl]

Maybe it is around your way. I don't see all that many of them (excluding the people who leave their full beams on, or have a single headlight out), and the fact remains that when a headlight is fixed to the car it's much harder to point it somewhere random than when it's strapped to a round handlebar and can be twisted to just about any angle.



Sounds about as practical as expecting cyclists to have licenses. Somewhere along the line you either have to require 3-year-old Jimmy to have an approved light fitted to his bicycle, or leave cops on patrol trying to figure whether a cyclist is old enough to require standard lights. Then you've got the obvious defence of "my lights were stolen and I had to get home". Can't see that one actually working in practise.

I think you don't give enough credit to bike riders and people in general. Setting standards for bicycle lighting and enforcing them isn't really that big a deal if there is a will to do so. Focus on the equipment and not the operator makes it real easy. They need standard, required lights if operated after civil twilight but not if they aren't. That essentially makes bike lighting requirements the same as motor vehicles. Enforcement is real easy too in this litigation age. Even with very litttle law enforcement it won't take long for civil actions to motivate people to keep the unlit bikes at home after dark.

[ItsJustMe]

I think mis-adjusted lights are more common in areas that don't have regular vehicle inspections. Here in Michigan, as far as I know there are NO qualifications for vehicle roadworthiness. They'll let you drive anything that still moves, and they won't ticket you for lighting problems until you pretty much don't have any lights left that work at all, as long as they're pointed vaguely in the right direction.

Every day I get passed by cars that I am pretty sure are puking more unburned gas out the tailpipe than they're actually using. I really, really wish we actually had to get our cars inspected here.

[cehowardGS]

Saw this on another forum.. the is SERIOUS BICYCLE LIGHTING!

[OldLog]

Don't pick on the 70 year old. Maybe some day you will be lucky enough to make 70 and still rides a bike

[Burton]

Or blind them temporary and make them crash and say "Did I do that?", just like Urkel will say.,

Ooooooopps! Apparently that can actually happen!
Got surprised the other night coming around a corner in an unlit section of the bike path by another biker coming the other way riding with no lights or reflective clothing or helmet. Caught him full in the face with the helmet light I was riding with and saw him swerve and leave the bike path for the grass. Heard him swear as I went by and heard the sounds of a yard sale behind me immediately afterwards.

Guess I should a little guilty but nawwww .... this moron was actually in MY lane coming directly towards me and ..... if with a 900 luman helmet lamp on my helmet he couldn't see me coming and stick to his own lane - he shouldn't have been on a bike period! If I DIDN'T have a light it would have been a sure collision.

So spank me already ... I just turned 59 last month and would really like to make it to 70

[EXCALIBUR]

Ooooooopps! Apparently that can actually happen!
Got surprised the other night coming around a corner in an unlit section of the bike path by another biker coming the other way riding with no lights or reflective clothing or helmet. Caught him full in the face with the helmet light I was riding with and saw him swerve and leave the bike path for the grass. Heard him swear as I went by and heard the sounds of a yard sale behind me immediately afterwards.

Guess I should a little guilty but nawwww .... this moron was actually in MY lane coming directly towards me and ..... if with a 900 luman helmet lamp on my helmet he couldn't see me coming and stick to his own lane - he shouldn't have been on a bike period! If I DIDN'T have a light it would have been a sure collision.

So spank me already ... I just turned 59 last month and would really like to make it to 70

Semper fi. Carry on.

[cehowardGS]

Ooooooopps! Apparently that can actually happen!
Got surprised the other night coming around a corner in an unlit section of the bike path by another biker coming the other way riding with no lights or reflective clothing or helmet. Caught him full in the face with the helmet light I was riding with and saw him swerve and leave the bike path for the grass. Heard him swear as I went by and heard the sounds of a yard sale behind me immediately afterwards.

Guess I should a little guilty but nawwww .... this moron was actually in MY lane coming directly towards me and ..... if with a 900 luman helmet lamp on my helmet he couldn't see me coming and stick to his own lane - he shouldn't have been on a bike period! If I DIDN'T have a light it would have been a sure collision.

So spank me already ... I just turned 59 last month and would really like to make it to 70

This is classic stuff!!

[josephjhaney]

Now that technology has given virtually any old "schmo" the ability to outfit their bicycle with blinding bicycle lighting products is there any chance that bicycle lighting manufacturers can effectively stress how important it is to operate their lights correctly? Or will it be just another case of technology being abused by mostly thoughtless, perverted or just plain ignorant people?

This thread is for anyone who has an idea, a slogan, or any other mental "cattle prod" that could somehow steer bicycle users into giving a "hoot" when using their lights on bicycle trails or area where they directly blinding or otherwise disturbing pedestrians.

It has already become apparent to me, when using local urban bicycle trails that most riders turn on front flashing lights that aim directly at all the trail users they encounter. This has added yet another negative aspect to using some of these trails late into the evening.

I can only imagine it will continue to grow as a problem and annoyance. Will bicycle lights eventually create safety issues among the trail-using cycling public?

Your thoughts and comments on this matter are requested.

I find these lights annoying = I see and am aware of you. In the world of bicycle safety, that's a win. On a path it may enable me to see you and not run you over, on the roads, it will hopefully enable a car to see me, and not run me over. I also consider that a win.

If you're annoyed, I can deal with that.

Joe