Red light tickets, Offense < Fine

[prathmann]

I wonder if the OP tried appearing in court rather than just mailing in the fine. I've heard of a number of cases where the judge reduced the penalty upon hearing that the offender was a bicyclist - presumably because of the lesser potential for reducing public safety. One recent case involved a group ride where tickets were issued to the whole group for running a red. Those who went to court had the $400 tickets reduced to $50. And when I lived in NJ I remember that one could plead 'guilty but with an explanation' to argue for a reduced penalty based on circumstances. The OPs situation with a T-intersection is one where one could easily argue that his action did not conflict with the right-of-way of any other traffic and should therefore be treated more leniently even if he was guilty of violating the letter of the law.

[richfell]

Thanks richfell...it might not alter my behavior in one or two spots but now at least I'll know not to argue it if I get pulled over.

Yeah, same here

[AlphaDogg]

If you stop at a light and it doesn't change for a complete cycle, here in CA it's considered "malfunctioning" and you are permitted to proceed after making sure it's clear. But you have to wait that complete cycle first. If there's one available, I roll over and hit the pedestrian crossing button which will trigger the light to change. Otherwise, I won't run a red. Got a ticket for it once. Can't afford it.

What is a "cycle"? There is one light in particular around here that I always get stuck at that doesn't change in a reasonable amount of time unless there is a vehicle present (and even then, it takes 2+ minutes). I once waited there for 7 minutes before I rolled over to push the pedestrian crossing button.

[HBxRider]

Dont run red lights. All the drivers who hate cyclists, thats the ammo they love to use to hate on us. That we always run red lights.

[MikeyBoyAz]

I wonder if the OP tried appearing in court rather than just mailing in the fine. I've heard of a number of cases where the judge reduced the penalty upon hearing that the offender was a bicyclist - presumably because of the lesser potential for reducing public safety. One recent case involved a group ride where tickets were issued to the whole group for running a red. Those who went to court had the $400 tickets reduced to $50. And when I lived in NJ I remember that one could plead 'guilty but with an explanation' to argue for a reduced penalty based on circumstances. The OPs situation with a T-intersection is one where one could easily argue that his action did not conflict with the right-of-way of any other traffic and should therefore be treated more leniently even if he was guilty of violating the letter of the law.

Here in AZ (Phoenix Metro) we have had more than a few competitive cyclists lose their lives running red lights/stop signs so I don't imagine much mercy for negligence here.

[glockenspieler]

Here in AZ (Phoenix Metro) we have had more than a few competitive cyclists lose their lives running red lights/stop signs so I don't imagine much mercy for negligence here.

It is funny how these threads are a game of telephone where the original context gets lost. I understand that when people run red lights, people might die. But rolling through the top of the T intersection in the bike lane at 6mph in light traffic (meaning actually in this case, no cars in the turn lane with the green light), the people that might die will do so either from a spontaneous stroke, a bolt of lightening, or ... but probably not from blunt force trauma of bike/pedestrian or bike/vehicle impact.

Sometimes it sounds like people imagine a scene from the Battleship Potemkin (you know, the baby carriage rolling down the stairs towards imminent doom, good movie, look it up), but it ain't that interesting.

Hmmm.... I guess that's a good way to end this thread. Not really that interesting. Cost me money, that always sucks, no one hurt, that's good, Atlanta gets some cash, that could be good or bad, and life goes on.

[pallen]

Dont run red lights. All the drivers who hate cyclists, thats the ammo they love to use to hate on us. That we always run red lights.

I ride for my safety and the safety of others. I don't care if they hate me on me or not. Drivers don't seem very concerned about my opinion of them when they exceed the speed limit, run red lights, pass too close, or cut me off with a right hook. Why should I worry much about what they think? I would never intentionally be an ass, but I'm not going to get that worked up over people in cars liking me on my bike. They hate because they are impatient and irritable people. I cant fix that.

[zonatandem]

Stupid you. . .
Red = STOP?!
Oh, officer I'm color blind . . .

[glockenspieler]

Stupid you. . .
Red = STOP?!
Oh, officer I'm color blind . . .

I really come here for the combination of penetrating insight combined with nimble wit that always helps to clarify the situation. Thanks!

[mulveyr]

There is an intersection on my commute where I can do this. Similar set up to the OP where I am riding down the top of the T with a light at an intersection with a road coming in from the left. The next light is only about 150 yards up the road and in the evening traffic at that one can back up to the light at the T. Luckily, there is a sidewalk on my side along with a ramp up to the sidewalk. When I can see the traffic backed up I'll pop up to the sidewalk and continue on. This can save me two cycles at the next light. I will add that it is legal for bikes to be on the sidewalk here.

But, if I stay on the road I stop for the red.

FWIW, depending on the state law and/or the state of mind of the cop, you can be ticketed for "avoiding an intersection".

That was around a $100 fine for me back in 1985 or so.

Edit: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/VAT/VII/33/1225 to be specific.

[DropDeadFred]

Ftp

[TrojanHorse]

I really come here for the combination of penetrating insight combined with nimble wit that always helps to clarify the situation. Thanks!

Did you pick up on the sage advice to not run a red light when you ride RIGHT BY A FREAKING COP!



I feel your pain, that's a stupid ticket. Let me know the next time your local government does something intelligent.

[joe4702]

If you stop at a light and it doesn't change for a complete cycle, here in CA it's considered "malfunctioning" and you are permitted to proceed after making sure it's clear. But you have to wait that complete cycle first.

I don't get this. If the sensor won't detect me, how will the light ever do a complete cycle?
Also, if I know a given light won't detect me, would I have to wait every time I'm at the light or only the very first time?
Just rhetorical questions. Cities won't install sensors that detect bikes, but expect me to sit there like an idiot.The only time I've ever been hit is from behind while stopped at a light. Now I do whatever is safest for me, whether that means stopping or rolling a light or sign. For example, I won't sit in a left turn lane (w/ red light) with traffic whizzing by on my right if it's clear to make the turn.

I think states that allow bikes to treat stop lights/signs as yields in some situations have the right idea.
It's safer for cyclists and improves traffic flow.

[Peiper1]

I will always check to make sure no car coming through the intersection, and if there isn't one, I never wait for a red light. As for the cops here in Toronto (and everywhere else for that matter), I have zero respect for them, so let them try to give me a ticket. I don't carry a driver's license with me on my rides so what are they going to write me a ticket against, my Starbucks card? It's never an issue anyway, considering that most cops around here are way too fat and out of shape to catch any cyclist.

[catonec]

Cyclist want to be taken seriously, treated as transportation like cars but don't want to follow the vehicle laws. You ran the light, saw the LEO and had already gotten a ticket for the same thing. Hmmmm, what was your rant?

+1, not to be jerk but, you broke the law, right? whats the issue. AND this is the second time!. wise up buddy or just accept the fact that your going to get caught and fined. sorry.