DougG

I was just browsing around in my LBS since I was thinking of getting a DS 8.4 next season, and found that they were just unloading and setting up a shipment of 2013s. I could see some minor frame changes and of course new color schemes, but the thing that struck me right away is that the 2013s no longer have a bottle mount on the seat tube.

What they did is put the 2nd mount on the underside of the downtube, but IMO that's a really bad place for a water bottle if you're riding on dirt at all! I've seen a few road bikes with this mounting position used for a 3rd bottle, but I'd really like to carry two bottles on my DS in the conventional locations.

Anyone else seen these new bikes? Does Trek assume that everyone uses a Camelbak and no longer needs bottles? This seems like a needless change to have made.

zerogravity

They all currently have mounts on the down tube.

They just eliminated the seat tube mount to be more cost effective. I don't think they intended to use it for water bottles. I used mine to mount my pump. Honestly, if you are riding under 2 hours, all you need is one bottle. If you are going 2 hours plus then you should use a Camelback. Just my opinion though. There is no right or wrong in this scenario.

Shawn Parr

My 2012 8.3 has 3 mounts, one on each side of the down tube, one on the seat tube. It looks in the pictures like the 2013 8.3 has cables routed on the bottom of the down tube, where mine are all on the bottom of the top tube. The picture also make it look like the down tubes are smaller in diameter.

What I'd love is to find a pump for that bottom tube location that doesn't sit off to the side to accommodate a water bottle. All of them I've seen have the side mounts though.

DougG

Well, every bike I've ever owned has had two bottle mounts and I've used them both. I really just don't like the idea of a Camelbak for several reasons. But in any case, I see that Specialized has really upgraded the 2013 Crosstrail series so I will probably give them a good look again before deciding.

You're correct that the cables are routed along the downtube, right past the mounting points. Seems like interference would be a possibility, but not sure about that.

Shawn Parr

Wow. That seems weird, not sure if I'd like that. If I were to add a second water bottle it would be on my seat tube. I'd use up the one on top of my down tube, then swap them. I'd also be concerned about dirt on the bottom of the down tube.

x201

That does seem like a poor change. I like using two bottles myself and I wouldn't want one of them under the downtube.

You could always get a Trek 29er mountain bike at a similar price point and then put some 700x38 tires on it. That's essentially what I elected to do instead of getting a DS.

lex22

The Trek website says the 2013's have internal cable routing. The pictures sure don't look like it. I picked up a 2012 8.4 last week and so far am happy with it. It complements my Madone that I love but cannot use for family rides and don't want to use for commuting. I actually tested one of the 2013 8.2's just for sizing purposes but don't remember whether the cables internally routed or not. My 2012 8.4 fits great, but I see from Trek's website that the 2013's have slightly different geometry so I guess I got lucky and cannot feel whatever the difference between the two is.

cashmonee

Posted this in another thread, but seems more relevant here.

My 7.4 FX also does not have a seat tube bottle mount (could be because of size), so I got one of these:

https://bontrager.com/model/07758

I actually prefer it to frame mounted bottles. It is easier for me to reach and holds 24oz Camelbak Podium Chills without issue. Plus wearing a backpack of any sort is a real bad idea here since we are routinely over 100 and it would be just too hot to wear. Here it is on the bike:

x201

Nice ride. I had a Brooks on my FX, too. It was a fun bike.

And yeah, the FX only has seat tube mounts on their 20" and larger sizes.

bgraham111

I'll have to remember this thread - my 2013 8.4DS should make it's way to the LBS in about 2 weeks. I did all my looking at the 2012, then checked out the differences on the spec sheet for the 2013. SO I didn't notice the water bottle mounts. If what you all are saying is true, that's a bit of a bummer - I like the water bottle mounted on the top side of the lower frame. But I'll live, as I normally use a camelbak. (Getting a 2012 in my size was going to take as long as getting a 2013, so I jumped to the 2013.)

I'll try to remember to report back...

hwycruiser

I think you guys are missing the fact that the 2013 Dual Sport is a totally different bike from last year's model. The frame appears to have smaller diameter tubing and the overall dimensions are different. Compare the dimensions with a 2012 and you find they made the top tube shorter among other things. It also no longer says "Gary Fisher" collection on the bike from what I can tell from the picture. Personally I like the changes including the shorter top tube. When I have looked at previous year models I have felt I was stretched out on a DS. So if you want a mountain bike with hybird tires you may want to hurry up and buy a 2012. If you want a fitness bike (FX) with a suspension fork, hold out for the 2013. Specialized appears to be doing the opposite with the Crosstrail for 2013.

Shawn Parr

The other day I compared the geometries on the Trek site and this appears to be very true, as well as the difference in tube size you also mention. The new ones are much more relaxed, almost to the point of being a frame size smaller than the 2012 in some areas, especially the top tube. They also have a bit less clearance below the bottom bracket. It does appear they are more road oriented now.

Personally the more aggressive geometry is one reason I liked the DS more than the FX line.

zerogravity

The head tube length is longer making it more upright like you said. The "reach" for the handlebars are much shorter. I know when i first got my 2012 DS 8.4, i had some sore back issues because of the longer top tube and eventually got myself a shorter stem. Not only was it easier on my lower back, but the bike reacted much quicker too. I think the chain stay length has been lengthened i am assuming for people who use saddlebags for more leg clearance, although i don't really know too many riders here who use saddle bags on their DS'. I can't really see any other advantage of lengthening the chainstay other than making the bike a little less nimble and more comfortable for the less aggressive leisure rider. The interesting part though is that the overall wheelbase is shorter than the the 2012 model so i guess overall, they are just playing with numbers to get similar performance at a more comfortable riding position.

nymtber

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/..._adventure.htm

My brother ordered one of these, arrived last Friday and after I got home from OT work (8:30 PM) we built it up. VERY nice bike, and literally over half what a specialized/Trek of the same component set will cost (making even a bike shop set-up worth it). It definitely needs a FULL set-up, but at the price, even throwing another $100 or so for a bike shop set up is WORTH IT! He took it for a spin finally today (weather has either HOT or windy here) and he said it rides real nice. Tell ya, if I needed a bike of this type (and I dont...) I would buy one in a heartbeat. Same quality as the specialized/trek, with a really good component set at half the cost or less. Gorgeous bike, its a white pearl coat, looks very very nice in person

zerogravity

I wonder what kinda warranty they offer and if the you have to send the bike back, would you have to pay to ship it back to them? Looks like a good buy though..just like the security of my LBS i guess. They take care of everything for me.

FrankHudson

Seems an odd choice to me too. Does it cost that much in factory production to add a set of bosses? I usually set up my bikes up with two cages. That lets me use the 2nd one for one of those plastic bullet small cases for my keys, phone and stuff, or for a second water bottle for the 7 year old on the trailer bike.

The bullet case wouldn't mind riding under the tube, but the second bottle would sure get gritty.

hwycruiser

You can always add one where you want it with a Topeak CageMount

lex22

Do you have a link to a "plastic bullet small cases"? Sounds like the kind of thing I am looking for.

Davidus1

I just purchased a 2012 8.4 DS and really like the bike. I will be changing to more "road friendly" tires soon as most all of my riding is on pavement. There are some good deals on them. I saw the 2013 and preferred the 2012 to it but that's my opinion. The dealer let me test ride it and I loved it. Good luck with your choice!

jbooker82

My 2013 DS 8.3 has 2 water bottle mounts. One on the seat tube and one on the top side of the down tube. They eliminated the one on the underside because the cables run on that side. They did not eliminate the one on the seat tube.

My wife's 2012 8.2 has all 3 mounting points but her cables run underneath the top tube.

DougG

That's interesting because the one I saw at my LBS definitely did not have a mount on the seat tube, but still had the 2nd one on the underside of the downtube. Likewise on the Trek web pages you can see that it is not there.

I wonder if it's related to frame size. With a sloping top tube, the seat tube location often has limited clearance for a bottle. On two of my bikes, I can only put a smaller size bottle into the rear mount. I don't recall the size of the bike I saw at my LBS, but maybe in the larger sizes they kept the mount.

Shawn Parr

I recently was at a shop with a 2013 DS 8.4. 19" IIR. No mount points on the bottom of the down tube, just cables. It did have a mount point on the seat tube for two total. So it sounds like different frame sizes have different setups.

Troy Winter

I just got a 2013 DS8.3 17.5" frame and it has two mounts, both on the down tube. The one on the underside is between the cables. I love the bike so far(I've only done one 10 mile ride). I test rode an 8.4 and I was just blown away. That bike is awesome but it was even farther out of my price range than the one I bought. :-)

bgraham111

It's a little off to the left, but you can JUST see the lower mounts. The mounts on the top are being used by the water bottle cage. Those are the only mounts. None on the other bars.

2013 8.4 DS

jbooker82

What size of frame did you end up getting?