Easiest way to start an arguement is talkin ****...

Jesus H. Christmas:

I'm a big fan of the "lean up against a tree" method for a couple reasons:
1. when I squat, it's hard for me to point my gear in the right direction to avoid peeing on my shorts.
2. Ditto not pooping on them. So when I squat, I usually take one leg out of my shorts, samurai style.
Yes, the samurai had their own pooping style.
3. I'm lazy
4. The trees seem to like it.
5. there is less likely hood of, ah... accidentally tearing something than by squatting. So I've heard.

Also, I stage my TP and a wetwipe in my shorts. I pull them down, set the stuff in the crotch hammock, do my thing, and when I'm done, there's the stuff to clean my bunghole! It's magic, really.

Do they make them from carbon?

I don't know what you mean by flaws of my premises? There is no premis. Our skin protects us from bacteria in the environment. Where there is break in the skin harmful bacteria and viruses can enter our bodies. if those vermin happen to be on a toilet seat and you have a cut/open bite wound, or open saddle sore, guess what? Whatever is on that seat is now in your body as surely as if you had touched it with your fingers and then put your fingers in your mouth, wiped your nose, or rubbed your eyes. Not premis, fact!

As for utter fear of toilet seats, let's back that down to i just don't like them. And make no mistake, while my weight loss program could possibly be attributed to drinking water, when your hosts literally cook where they poop and use their hands for clean up, well, that's part of the problem as well. Not trying put down any culture or hygiene habits of other regions of the world, just sayin' that's what happened. And, a reason I'm sticking to the good old USA to satisfy my travelin' itch.

LOL!!!!!! Great post!!!!! Thanks for being brave enough to share!!!!!

If it is a big concern for you, you could stick to hotel tours. And as I mentioned before, many campgrounds have decent facilities.

We recently stayed 3 nights in an Auto Resort campground in Japan that was absolutely pristine ... everything about the place was pristine. In fact, I have to say that everywhere we stayed in Japan was really good ... 2 hotels, 2 campgrounds, and 1 hostel.

I haven't had any significant complaints about the campgrounds and other places I've stayed in Australia or Canada either. Even the public toilets or gas station toilets have been decent.

That's a quote from someone else in another thread. Only the "Beam me up, Scotty" part is mine.

For those of us having not grown up learning the finer points of the squat position, missing the shorts is a consideration. As is balance and pressure points on the feet.

Leaning against a tree could be an interesting alternative. When you say lean, how do you mean? I picture sitting position with back against a tree. Is that what you mean?

Actually, my travels have taken me to all ends of the spectrum. As a family we travel either to luxury resorts or by motorhome. The motorhome is obviously the be-all, end-all answer. Nothing like having your own bathroom and bed. It also led us to many nice campgrounds with clean facilites. At the other end of the spectum is hiking and backpacking. In the middle is close to 20 years as a member of the Ironbutt Association. That's a long distance motorcycle riding association. Over those 20 years I pretty much wore out 6 BMW motorcycles riding mostly the north american continent. So, with that I'm use to some fairly narly restroom accomadations. Now, i'm getting back into bicycle touring. That clean campground could be 20 miles further than i can ride that day and out of reach. Just wondering how the rest of you handle this.

OK, just remember... Read the following at your own germaphobic risk. You've been warned.


• There is no medical evidence which proves that public bathrooms are inherently hazardous. Millions upon millions of people use public restrooms, including at campsites and in big cities and at truck stops. If it was a genuine vector for disease, civilization would grind to a halt.

• If you have a saddle sore, major bug bite, or open wound on your butt while on tour, you're already screwed.

• Bike shorts are a breeding ground for bacteria, and you'll be wearing them for hours and hours every day. A few additional germs from a toilet seat doesn't make a difference.

• In fact, there are fecal coliforms everywhere. Your bathroom may sparkle, but it's still got fecal coliforms all over. They are no more common on top of the toilet seat than any other surface in the bathroom, and they are no less common in your own bathroom than in any other bathroom.

• (Guys only!) When you sit down at a toilet, nothing will jump right up and grab your meat. (NSFW link)

• You have this wonderful thing called an immune system which protects you from germs. There are people who walk around regularly with slightly compromised immune systems (e.g. HIV+, transplant patients or RA sufferers, who take immunomodulators to reduce their symptoms) who can still use a public toilet.

• Last but not least: "Use of public restrooms" is a different issue than "restaurants in India have abysmal food and hygiene standards." Yes, people in India have abysmal food safety and hygiene standards, as almost every Westerner who's been there can attest. It does not logically follow, on that basis, that bathrooms in Texas or Ireland or Thailand are hazardous. All you need to do is wash your hands afterwards, and you're fine.


Thus, my recommendation is: Stop being squeamish. You'll still be healthy, and it's one less thing to worry about on tour.

THX for posting this!!!! Maybe i want something to jump up and grab my meat!!!! And all those bacteria in my cycling shorts, well they came from me. Which of course makes me the dirtiest thing in the restroom!!!!

Seriously, my only reason for taking on your post was your questioning my premis that dangers do lurk in the bathroom. And, they do. Of course they lurk other places too. And, my premis, as you call it, is that an entry point is needed. As the recent example of that poor woman in Georgia has shown, any open cut will do.

Beyond that, noone says that phobia's have to be reasonable. I would argue it's quite the opposite! My years as a helicopter pilot i had plenty of folks i had to coax onboard. "I'm thinking what the hell!" But then again, I'm squimish on ladders. And, rarely when standing on a precipice will i look down. So go figure!!! Nothing reasonable about it.

Lastly, if there is nothing harmful in the bathroom what's the point of washing your hands?

I guess the danger of the abysmal hygiene conditions in India is in it being foreign to westerners bodies who are there for short stays.

I was recently attending a babies and children first aid course, and it was surprising how few disinfection measures were recommended for small to medium size wounds and the like. Basically nothing but letting the kids own blood seal the wound. Immune system is something that will take care of the unwanted germs. That was for the cases that happen in your home environment, and once you go, say, to India, you should have disinfection fluids at hand. The course was no alternative medicine thing, it was given by the Johanniters, one of the three main medical organizations in Germany who work at hospitals, ambulance, etc.

Washing hands is a good practice in general and most effective for not spreading things like influenza, and bathroom is a natural place to wash your hands in. As Bacciagalupe says colis are just about everywhere. Besides, I am not convinced that splashing hands with water and a bit of soap will kill all the germs..

So I guess when you stay in your country or countries with similar culture and hygiene standards you are pretty safe. I am probably stating obvious here.

That's what he means.

Yes, frankly, the squat position is an acquired one, usually from an early age, but it all has to to with flexibility of the tendons, ligaments and muscles around the ankles, knees and thigh. The normal position is with the feet flat on the ground, but you and I have to balance on the balls of our feet to squat successfully, albeit for a short time.

There are little ways to make it slightly more comfortable... putting a decent thickness stick under the heels of your shoes, or selecting a place where there is a slope upward so your heels can rest on that.

But yes, keeping your shorts clear of the waste is an issue. It's a case of practice makes perfect.

My first encounter with a squat toilet was in France on Paris-Brest-Paris in 2003. It was after a long hard couple of days, and believe me, the last thing my legs were capable of doing was squat, let alone raise me back up again after finishing. Having a case of constipation didn't help either! But I lived to tell the tale, and squat toilets and doing it in the bush is not quite so daunting now.

One other thing for people thinking they have to dig a deep hole to do their business. Don't. The deeper the hole, the slower the decomposition process. A shallow hole is best, and I use the heel of my shoe or boot to create a small hole in soft ground. On rocky ground, any sort of hole is a major challenge.

In my experience working in parks, you get to see a lot of surface poop around the "party" campsites, and in dry weather the stools dry out fairly quickly and become dust, and in wet weather, they tend to disintegrate with the rain drops and wash away. It's not pleasant, and people should now better, but they are the facts of life as I have seen them in the past two years.

The real pain in the ass is the toilet paper that is left behind, because it does take so long to break down and looks so unsightly. My advice is to put that used paper into a plastic bag and take it with you to dispose of in a trash can later.

Incidentally, in World Heritage Areas in Tasmania, organised tours (and I think even private expeditioners) are required by law to take all human waste out with them in plastic bags or sealed bins.

FYI, it's a reference to the myth that you can get VD from a toilet seat.


Just because that bacteria was on your skin for awhile doesn't neutralize it. In fact, when you're on tour you need to be assiduous with keeping your shorts & crotch clean.


And, they can be easily eliminated by washing your hands after you do your bizniz.


I assume you're referring to the woman who got flesh-eating bacteria? She didn't get it because she went to a public restroom after being injured. And there's a few million people who get cuts every day who don't suffer from flesh-eating bacteria.


It's not that there is "nothing harmful." It's that a) your own bathroom is as clean/unclean as most public bathrooms, b) public bathrooms are not a threat to human health and safety, and c) all you need to do is wash your hands afterwards, and you're fine.


If this has elevated to a phobia that cannot be rationally addressed, but is not bad enough to justify a therapeutic approach, then it sounds like you're pretty much on your own.

Better bring a trowel, enough water to wash your hands, and hope you can find some unposted land on your travels. Or, you can just suck it up, and not let your fears run your life.

Wonder how the OP would react to the knowledge that the dangers faced when consuming snacks during an organized ride are likely much greater than anything he might encounter in a public restroom. Ever notice how many people stick their snotty, glove-clad hands into the bowls of chips and the stacks of PB&J sandwiches, stick their fingers in their mouths and then go back for seconds? Many of those hands just came from touching porta-potty doors AFTER using the hand sanitizers often found therein. Such actions are believed to have been the cause of the spread of a noro virus through the ranks of Cycle Oregon a few years ago. Hundreds of people were sickened.

Rowan and I are on tour now (a mostly cycling tour around the world). We've completed the Asia portion and are now in the UK. And we're both sick with a cold/flu thing probably caused by stress and a lowered immune system due to stress, lack of sleep, etc. as we packed up our home and got ready for this trip. I know I was exposed to a cold/flu similar to this by my coworkers before I left. But we were also exposed to a lot of people in Hong Kong and Taiwan, and on the flights in between all the places we've been. Flights can often be the source of illness transmittal because there are so many people all crammed together in a relatively small space, in the airport and on the airplanes.

However, in order to reduce the effects of this cold/flu, and to reduce our chances of getting anything worse, we have taken precautions. I got a flu shot, and we both got a series of vaccinations. I've been washing my hands with soap and water quite frequently, and we've both been using hand sanitizer before eating (although we should probably do this more often).

We've also been rather selective about the places we choose to eat, and have gone with bottled water in many cases rather than what comes out of the tap. Simply drinking water you're not used to can cause some mild digestive issues. And in popular mid-winter holiday destinations (like Mexico and others), the recommendation is not only not to drink the tap water, but also to refuse ice (because the ice could be made from tap water) and not to brush your teeth with tap water. Even in a small town in Ontario several people died because of an e-coli breakout in the water, and warnings are issued about the water in many small towns throughout the Canadian prairies just about every summer.


I am more concerned about the water I drink than using toilets. To my mind, drinking suspect water is much more of a potential problem than hovering over a less than pristine toilet.


But when faced with a less than pristine toilet, what about cleaning it? On the train from London to Edinburgh yesterday, I needed to use the toilet and was put off a bit by the state of the seat. But there was water, soap, toilet paper and towels, so I cleaned the seat. Hand sanitizer or disinfectant wipes could also be used to clean the toilet. I carry both, and in fact, in some places we visited in Asia, there was disinfectant available to clean the toilet.


And speaking of cleaning things with hand sanitizer or disinfectant wipes, I do that in the offices I've worked in. They say that the avarage computer keyboard is more filthy than a public toilet. So with that in mind, I would clean my office with disinfectant wipes or alcohol cleaner every couple weeks. And if someone else in the office used my phone, keyboard, or mouse, I'd give them a wipe as soon as the person left my office. Not that I'm a germ-a-phobe ... I just wanted to avoid catching the colds and flus that tend to go around offices.

There's one thing about this thread and the OP's position that seems to be missing: You can't logic your way out of a phobia.

I agree - toilet seats are not going to give you some kind of crazy disease, or at least, they're not going to be any worse than the usual doorknobs, kitchen sinks, etc. For what it's worth, if you're afraid of GI illnesses, you can't get them from a cut on your butt. Your cut could get infected (though as has been mentioned, your bike shorts are just as bad), but unless you touch it and then transfer it to your mouth, the bacteria is not going to work its way through your body to your intenstines.

However... phobias are an entirely different type of thing than asking "is this a logical concern?". You can't tell a claustrophobic "you're going to be fine, this elevator has been known to function flawlessly" and have them react with "oh, alright then. My fears have suddenly disappeared". It's a deeper thing, and it's really quite difficult to overcome.

I do not have this particular phobia, so I haven't had to deal with the issue. I might suggest a high-protein diet to at least reduce the frequency of the problem.

By not worrying about it in my case.

Here you go ... just for this thread ...

We came upon this on a walk/cycle around a lake in Japan. Any guesses what it is?




Well ... if you guessed "tree", you're wrong. But if you guessed "toilet" ... you got it!

In my mind nothing can be worse than a porta-potty that has been sitting in the hot sun, and that has been visited by scores of males trying to hit the hole without lifting the seat. Then you go in and have to drop a #2. And the dang things are cramped and you have to drop your drawers on a piss soaked floor. I could go on.........

That Lyme Disease thing must suck. We have wood ticks but Lyme Disease is very rare around here. Usually brought in from somewhere else. Those seed ticks can get on you by just looking at the grass.

Ok, heres how I deal with the woods and ticks. I spray lots of repellent all over if I have to go into the cover of the trees. I mean lots of it, everywhere.
Anyone who has ever had to deal with the treatment for Rocky mountain spotted fever or whatever will agree that soaking in a little deet is worth it in a pinch. while I usualy carry deet free for regular mossys, if I have to squat in the woods I spray the most poison I can everywhere on me. That means I carry two bottles of repelent, but in the summer its just what I feel needs done.
And I never lean against a tree, but rather find a smallish tree to hang onto, sort of cantilevered beyond the limit of balance on my feet. Or, if there is nothing, just go for the balance thing. Shallow hole.
On my last trip, there was nothing but poison oak growing everywhere beside the road for miles. being covered in deepwoods off and poison oak made the next thirty miles kind of icky, but it was still worth it, because when ya gotta ya gotta. lucky for me I am not allergic, but I pity anyone who was who had to go there. If I was allergic, I would have had to stay in sight of the road, so lucky me.

Bathroom ick, I agree its just nasty. But I am not really afraid of catching anything, but rather find others lack of cleanlyness and care horrible. I agree with matchka, clean it up. If you have an actual phobia, you might carry a small spray bottle of diluted bleach.

One tour I was alone at a campground, it was before the season really started. There was a privy, and it had not been used by anyone that I could tell, but still...



Guess that I share your phobia to some extent. That porta sans even smelled nice, but just could not sit on it without the gasket. If there had been running water, I would have been happy to just give it a wipe off.
Like I said, its not pathogens that get my goat, but the idea of riding around with someone elses used food diluting with sweat and rubbing into my skin gives me the shivers. And I will not feel bad about that!

You do realize that any moisture would go through that TP instantly and still get on your skin, right?

Yes, if there was moisture on the seat. But, not being that silly, one does wipe things down. I mean, when you go to the trouble to construct something like that, why would you be so stupid as to not give it a pre wipe? Or do you think that once the tissue is laid down, and you see the moisture wicking through, someone would think, well, thats fine? Indeed, its best to give your own legs a quick wipe to remove any sweat that you yourself might introduce to the paper. And don't linger. And, as a point of pride, make sure that all the tissue you used to make the thing gets cleaned up as well, so as not to have a double standard on neatness.
The point of the thing is to keep someone elses dried sweat or fecal matter from touching your skin. Again, not because of pathogens, but because its just kind of gross.
In my prior post I might have made it sound like I did not "wipe" it down, it was badly written. I meant that had there been water, I would have given it a good "washing".
Honestly, Those of us who go through this procedure while really having to take a crap are not going to wallow in someone elses fluids regardless...

Um, hate to burst your bubble, but as someone who has worked as a janitor... women get pee and poo on the toilets as much or more than men. Some of them are squeamish enough about public restrooms and especially porta potties that they "hover" over the seat instead of sitting on it. This is about as stable as it sounds, and negatively affects their aim.