Drawing from my personal experiences, there's seems to be more motorists who do not wish to be videoed in the act of exhibiting dangerous driving/derogatory behavior than the ones who do or don't care.Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Drawing from my personal experiences, there's seems to be more motorists who do not wish to be videoed in the act of exhibiting dangerous driving/derogatory behavior than the ones who do or don't care.
Come out of Iowa and ride in S. Jersey or PA where our hit and run rates would have you crap in your pants. Almost everyday.
Feel free to visit my blog www.chefonabicycle.com
Not a cheerleader for ILTB, but I've seen some photos of the road that ILTB used to commute on, definitely not for the faint of heart either.
they sure dont specially if they are driving a vehicle with theyre company name on it
i use video cams quite often i use them on my rc planes also use them in the car and on my bikes.
I use my cameras almost daily, mainly for chronicling changes on my commute routes, my only wish is in that if I only had these type of cameras available to me years ago. I was able to view a video taken some 25 to 30 years ago by a passenger riding in a car, interesting to see the changes in our city over that time span.
Been there and done that; you aren't going to tell me something I don't know about cycling Philadelphia, Chief.
Raised in Philadelphia and cycled all the time in the 50's and 60's growing up there. Commuted for 6 years in and out of Center City in the 70's, frequently rode over the Ben Franklin Bridge to get to places in NJ. Was back there just a month ago visiting relatives and riding about. Only noticeable difference from 35 years ago when I left to see the world is more cyclists, more cooperation with calmer motorists and a lot more goofball fixies and hipster bikes parked downtown. Seems a lot more calm for cycling than it used to be in the 50's, 60's and 70's when I didn't have much company when I cycled all over the city.
Picture from the Battleship NJ in Camden NJ pointing her 16'' guns at our friends in Philadelphia.
Was hoping you would have taken the bait and tell me to come out to Iowa. Would have given me good reason to get the hell out of NJ!
Let me know next time your around and we can go out and get something to eat.
Feel free to visit my blog www.chefonabicycle.com
Okay you win. I'm a fear-mongering, drama queen who has the propensity to be smug and sanctimonious... I get that.
The other thread speaking about the cyclist who was hit from behind..Let's talk hypothetical for a moment.
Let's say this person suffered a knee, shoulder or head injury that required immediate surgery to correct. A hospital stay that lasts a couple of weeks followed by a couple weeks in a rehabilitation center.
Got any idea how much that would cost?
Let's couple that with a few weeks out of work to boot. Even if this person had the best insurance coverage you can get, the co-pays and time loss would be staggering. And I do mean really freaking staggering!
If this person had no insurance, then we the taxpayer would foot the bills, as this would have to go on medicaid coverage.
Now I don't know how big Burlington is. But the county I live in alone has a population of over 1 million. It's not the cycling utopia you obviously enjoy there.
Check it out, I can't purchase additional insurance right now that covers me on my bicycle. My homeowners will cover the cost's for loss of property (after a $500.00 deductible...) , but my health insurance would have to cover the medicals. Which I would probably be forced to litigate just to pay for the expenses. Because once you hit a certain amount, subjugation is out of the question. I know this first hand.
I'm not saying this is the most likely outcome, or it's the only way. But what you just called me on is a reality. It's been happening all over the country.
You call that fear-mongering. I call it prudence. All I'm trying to do is ride my damn bike to work. I consider myself a courteous cyclist, I obey the laws.
Because I feel that my camera is a device that could eventually protect the interests of my family and I, you, a fellow "cyclist" feels offended by this.
"Whenever you think you have something dummy-proof, someone builds a better idiot." - Wisdom overheard on the BF
Will do. I come out there at least once a year to see family still there.Was hoping you would have taken the bait and tell me to come out to Iowa. Would have given me good reason to get the hell out of NJ!
Let me know next time your around and we can go out and get something to eat.
Some people believe religious medallions will protect them, you believe that a camera will somehow protect your family from financial disaster in case of an accident which is looming over your future.
If you believe toting a camera or two around will make the slightest bit of difference in the outcome of your dramatic scenario (especially the part about how a camera will somehow recoup your medical costs from an accident) go for it.
you're in IA? i didn't realize CA, CO and DC were foreign countries...? of course, i'm just basing that on media reports, so it's likely that i've left out some other US jurisdictions which have pursued convictions based on helmet-cam videos.
a few years ago, my dad was driving his van when a young girl in a sports car rear-ended the van (causing significant damage to the sports car and not a scratch on the van) and then very quickly fled the scene. my dad wrote down the plate number and descriptions of the car and the driver. on his way home, he stopped at the local cop-shop to file a hit-n-run report. he gave the details to the cop behind the counter, and after waiting a few minutes he was told that if there's no damage to his van, he should probably not pursue the case - the police chief's young daughter was driving the car that fled the scene.
perhaps more relevant is the CO case of the millionaire fund-manager doing a hit-n-run on a bicycling doctor.
have i mentioned that video is a game changer?
sometimes video evidence is a big deal, and certainly can lead to "making them pay". other times crashes happen with stolen cars, people who are living in their cars, or just the everyday working poor, in which cases financial reimbursement is unlikely. regardless, i think of my cameras as a form of insurance, among other uses.
camera do not make one bullet-proof, and are not a substitute for being aware and safe, but they do serve several purposes, "evidence collection" among them.
"When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race." - H.G. Wells
Well yeah, that's sort of what I meant by altercations. That sort of thing I could see them taking note of it.
"The bicycle is the noblest invention of mankind. I love the bicycle. I always have. I can think of no sincere, decent human being, male or female, young or old, saint or sinner, who can resist the bicycle."
- William Saroyan
I'm finished with this conversation with you. Your weak attempts to spin this issue have become quite tiring to me. As a matter of fact, all you seem to do is to flaunt disdain for other posters (particularly me) on this forum....and then you have the nerve to name call to boot. I know one thing for certain sir, or ma'aam or whatever, If you were standing in front of me you wouldn't have the gall you demonstrate behind the keyboard.
You are always right, you know more, have done more, seen more, heard more, cycled more....and everyone else is wrong. I get that now too.
I really don't care where you have cycled in the past...or how many 100k miles you've ridden, or how much more about cycling you know than everyone else. At 15,000+ posts I find it hard to believe you do anything more than armchair cycle anymore anyway. So why don't you go oil up the chain and actually go for a ride for a change.
I would hope that nothing terrible would happen to anyone. All I've tried to do is to point out how a camera may be used in a situation like one I described.
I have already said the reason I have a camera on my bike is to video my rides for fun. I have videos of Mb rides we have ridden, century highlights, and videos to show places like the Silver Comet Trail here in Georgia to other people, so that they can see how nice it is and come out for a ride. That's the reason I have a camera on my bike. And it's not like I have a camera on my bike all the time. That's a much better use for the camera, and it's a heck of a lot more interesting than my commute to and from work.
Am I advocating that everyone go out and buy a camera to put on their bikes so they can sue someone for damages should they get hit? I don't think I am. I don't think that has been my message. Just a point of view.
"Whenever you think you have something dummy-proof, someone builds a better idiot." - Wisdom overheard on the BF
Good. Despite your tender sensitivities somehow getting ruffled, my comments/skepticism about the practical use of cycling video cameras as legal evidence or as prophylactic protection from wacky drivers, has never been about YOU.
i like to bike This is what he is trying to convey to you all the medical bills would cost more than over 20 to 30 thousand dollars and if by chance the video cam caught the vehicle that hit him maybe a plate number. The person that hit him would be liable and he would also be charged with feloney hit and run. In missouri that is a licence removal for life and 5 yrs in state custody so yes it would recoup his losses that what auto insurance is for. Silmarillion you are correct in that assumption. Ii like to bike What if that scenaireo where you got hurt pretty bad and lets say your riding buddy had on his gopro on and filmed the whole scene wouldnt you want him to show the local fuzz what happened. Or would you want him to erase the video and it would be your word aginst the driver of the vehicle that hit you and i'm pretty sure you would loose .
I got what the poster was speculating about the first time.
Anything is possible, and if someone worries enough about the possibility of this sky is falling scenario and believes it merits the time and trouble of recording every ride,
just in case, just maybe constant video recording of every nearby motorist will help in some legal proceeding that I've been hearing so much about on the Internet,
then it makes perfect sense.
I am pretty sure we've beaten this topic to death.
End of day, it is a tool thats out there to be used and each of our situations, where we ride, how we ride, etc, is vastly different.
Feel free to visit my blog www.chefonabicycle.com
I can't imagine that there will be a change in behavior until a lot more motorists get caught up in the results of cameras being used. I probably would have called in a truck that passed me too closely this morning, but I didn't get the license plate. Had I had a camera, I'm pretty sure there would have been some behavior modification in that motorists future. I think a significant number of motorists are just bullies, and bullies don't do their thing if they think someone can get them back. Right now they don't realize that many cyclists have cameras.
Totally agree with the comment above.
I really doubt it since I have had many people even when I'm standing right in front of them just stare at my helmet and ask "what the heck is all that stuff?" - they have no idea that a cyclist might wear a camera.
I did have a driver who was behind me at a stoplight a few days ago holler "Hey, the camera is a great idea!" I gave him a thumbs-up as the light turned green.
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
A few days ago I was driving due to having a doctor's appointment far away. On the way there I stopped at the post office and on the way in I heard someone sounding alarmed and turned to see that a woman had been backed into and knocked over in a parking spot. The car was driving away and I did not have the presence of mind to get a plate number, so when talking to the cops later I didn't have much to tell them other than a color and general car type.
Had I been riding that day I could have provided video.
I think that it's at least as likely (probably more so) that I'll be able to provide evidence for an incident that I'm not directly involved with, and I think it's worth riding with a camera for that reason too, since it's not a big deal for me to do so.
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
it's not you, it's ILTB.
i've been car-free for 5+ years, but if i ever go back to driving i'd be stupid to not hang some cameras from some suction cup mounts - poof! i'm rolling front & rear dash cams! overall, i'm sure there are more dash-cammers out there than helmet cammers, but no one ever says that dash-cammers are "just looking for trouble" or "wannabe cops", or any of the other things we sometimes hear about helmet-cammers.
regardless of what mode of transportation someone chooses, cameras are an asset to those who operate safely and lawfully, and a liability for those who don't. that makes them neither good nor bad - they're just tools.
"When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race." - H.G. Wells
“Religious medallions” are inadmissible. The use of video is.
The acceptance of bicycle cam video as a legal tool is in its infancy but appears to be picking up steam. Prosecutors attitudes toward video appears to vary by state. Prosecutors generally are not interested in close-calls and minor harassing behavior. Cases involving injury, hit and run, and abusive / threatening behaviors are benefited with video. Insurance companies like them because they have a means of subrogating medical costs against a driver who would otherwise be unknown. Attorneys like them since they eliminate the typical conflicting descriptions of the incident.
Your crusade against “fear mongering” seems to be a consistent message in your posts. As with most issues, there can be a reasonable balance found between two extremes. Wouldn’t you agree that”fear mongering” is the hyper-dramatic presentation of danger well beyond its reality? Has anyone presented that in this thread? Or could it be that ANY of the typical risks inherent in commuting is outside the scope of your reality.
I would suspect that any rider who has ever experienced (or almost experienced) damage/ injury from an aggressive driver and wished they could have captured the SOB will likely buy these inexpensive cams. Perhaps you and I are fortunate enough that aggressive behavior is not part of our ride.
"I thought of that while riding my bike."
- Albert Einstein on the theory of relativity
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