jr_nadel

Hi all,

I was hoping for a little help gathering some info about where this frame may have come from and who may have built it. I live in Sydney, Australia and found this bike at a garage sale. It was pretty beat up but had a full campy record groupset, araya rims (on shimano hubs), 3ttt stem and cinelli hangers. There were no identifiable decals on the frame when i bought it as it had been spray painted. The forks however had 'reynolds' pantographed on them, and so too the vertical dropouts but nothing on the seat stays. aside from that there were no other stand out features. the serial on the bottom reads '71', and from my mind the frame looks to be early-mid 80's (but i am NO expert).

I had to get the bottom bar repaired and just recently got it back from getting resprayed. I have attached some photos below.

Any ideas or thoughts would be helpful.

Thanks!

unworthy1

I was guessing "Australia" before I read your post and saw you're in Sydney: the only other place I saw that "reynolds" engraved crown was on another bike from Aus, and it wasn't ID'd, AFAIK.
Certainly is an interesting collection of features, and you're correct that it has to be later than '71, I'd guess late-'80s to early '90s based on (what looks like) a Cinelli brake bridge from that era...and the straight-blade fork.
What's the rear spacing: 126mm or 130mm?
What size seatpost?
What BB threading?
Very "close-coupled" rear triangle judging by that dimple in the seat tube!

jr_nadel

Hey thanks for getting back to me...yeh i was thinking 80's and most likely aussie.

Rear spacing = 130mm
Seat post = 26.8mm (do you think i can get away with a campy 27.2mm seat post?..i don't know how much give you can get out of it? Pretty new to the whole bike restoration scene!)
BB threading = 35mm (approx. diameter - don't know if I've measured it right because I'm not quite sure how it ought to be measured)

yeh the rear triangle is small...but i love that dimple in the seat tube, it will look beautiful with some nice rims in there.

let me know if you have anymore thoughts or know anyone who may be able to help.

Cheers!

unworthy1

If 26.8 is the correct size, then that's the size you have to use. If in doubt go ahead and try to insert a larger post in the tube, but if it doesn't go in with "a little" friction, do NOT try to force it. Take the frame to a reliable bike shop and ask them to use a sizer to determine what size is correct if you really don't know for certain...this is not something you can improvise: seat posts generally come in 0.2mm size increments.
Sounds like this frame might be late '80s at the earliest...if you do go to an LBS with it, ask them to tell you what the BB threading is. Otherwise you can try some marked cups for a go/no-go test, but if the shell measures 68mm wide I'd bet it's British threading (1.37" x 24tpi and LH threading in the fixed, or RH, side).

jr_nadel

Thanks for all the advice, the 26.8 is going off the original seat post that was in it when i picked it up. So ill try and find something that size.

Cheers!

10speedterror

very cool frame ive got a similar frame with the same reynolds stamped fork crown(yours is the only other ive ever seen!) and the same brake bridge even had a racing number mount but mine has columbus drop outs maybe the same bulder but different eras i posted mine here a year or two ago and one person suggested it might be a simplon a company thats almost impossible to find info on! good luck!

jr_nadel

hey mate,

I chased up that frame that you had which was similar (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...bottom-bracket)

The forks are almost identical (mine are straight though) and the lugs on the inner side of the forks are slightly different. The brake bridge is exactly the same. The lugs are similar too, but yours have a little more detail/intricacy to them...most likely due to the era. Not much info going around about Simplon, but thanks for the heads up. Ill keep on searching.

Cheers

Charles Wahl

Depending on the use/abuse of the frame before you got it, the post that came with the frame should be viewed with a jaundiced eye -- people do silly things sometimes. The most careful procedure is to measure the seat tube (several times, across different axes, and make sure it's round and not ovaled by overtightening the clamp onto a too-small post. A bike with a Reynolds tubeset would most likely take a 27.2 mm post (seat tube butted on the bottom end only, Columbus similar; there are exceptions), while 26.8 suggests a Japanese-manufactured tubeset, which typically has a butt at the top end too, which is the reason for the smaller-diameter post. A bike with an indented seat tube (to clear rear tire) is almost certainly constructed with butted tubing of some sort.

Gary Fountain

You have received some very insightful recommendations and observations so far and I cannot add anything to your search for a builder. It is a particularly well built frame and the indentation on the seat tube along with the race number boss suggest a very fine and top quality racing frame. I particularly like the extended point on the seat tube cluster. My initial thought is that it should take a 27.2 seatpost but the suggestion of a check at your local (good) bikeshop is what I would do. You have to have the correct sized seatpost fitted. I wonder if it is Japanese as suggested?

Quite often it is impossible to trace a builder as many of the frame components are available to all builders although the ability to indent the seat tube so accurately is a fine skill displayed by the builder.

It is a frame I would be proud to own.

cyclotoine

Nice frame, what record group did it have? Post pics and if it is original I think we could date it to the components within a few years. I would say this frame is from the mid-90s. It's hard to say but I think the tubing is oversized. That is a real beauty.

jr_nadel

Yeh thanks, that's what ive been led to believe. Im going to take it to my local bike shop and get it measured. Im pretty sure its 531 and Im told that the seat posts for these is 27.2mm. Thanks for your insights!

jr_nadel

Hey Gary,

I couldnt agree more, so much insight from these guys (and clearly a wealth of experience!) I got in touch with Peter Bundy (son of Jim) he reckons its possible that it could be one of his (or his dads) but needs to see it in person to be sure. He said he did a few seat tube indentations in the early 90's to clear the rear wheel (i think its a beautiful touch!) Im going to take it by him tomorrow so i will keep you all posted. It would be great to find the builder but Im not too fussed either way...it was a great (lucky) find, and im pretty chuffed in all!

Thanks for your post.

jr_nadel

Ill post pics of the group later this arvo. Yeh its a cracker frame and i picked it up for a steal ($55). Thanks for the post.

Cheers,
Jim

jr_nadel

Here are some pics of the group (think it is actually campy Chorus not Record)...I know its not as good as record but is it still quality? Also Ive had a fair crack at degreasing and polishing it all up with autosol, WD40 and brasso but id appreciate any tips for getting a better result (particularly re: the rust on the brakes - Ive been told to just paint over the screws/nuts it with black paint..thoughts?) Thanks for all the help so far!


Cheers.

xPavlisx

Whoever sold you that ripped themselves off!

Looking at the frame it reminds me of a few of the time trial frames up in Hilary Stone's website. It seems very british.

callig

The Crank is C-Record

bikingshearer 

Short answer - Yes, Chorus = quality. One step down from Record. For the vast majority of us, indistinguishable in perfromace and very close in finish and appearance.

Based on the combination of dimpled seat tube, the "Reynolds" font and the straight fork blades, I'd guess 1990s. Unless you have some reason for saying it is 531 that I missed, I would not be certain of that - it could be 531, it could be 753, it could be 725, it could be brazed 853 (although I kind of doubt that), it could be any one of an number of other flavors of Reynolds tubing. It might also be a mixed-breed framset (the builder using tubes from different makers for different tubes, not an uncommon practice for high-end builders).

In any event, you got yourself one heck of a good deal. Well done. Ride the heck out of it - it is what it was built for.

jr_nadel

Thanks, yeh I can't wait to thrash it!!

So I took the frame to Peter Bundy this morning and he said it wasn't one of his or his dads but very similar to the stuff he was doing in the early 90's. He said definitely 531 and maybe built by Geoff Scott (Gefsco) or Kerry Hopkins (so I am going to chase them up if I can). In any event he said built by a skilled frame builder and made to be ridden in international competition (due to the racing number mount on the top bar). I'll post some more photos as I build it up. But please keep your insights coming!

Cheers,
Jim

cyclotoine

Based on the age of the frame I am not sure why Peter would say it is definitely 531. I mean is there any outward way of discerning this? I would actually assume it is 753 or 725 mentioned about and was actually thinking it before I read Bikingshearer's post. I have to agree with him. The cranks are record as mentioned above. The brakes are known as monoplanars and were part of the chorus group and then also the athena group later. The shifters may have also been shared between groups when they first came out and the derailleurs are tough to say. This is early 1990s stuff in anycase... The front derailleur was definitely record at one time, but may have trickled down to chorus as well. The part do look a little worse for wear. I would take all the hardware off that you can remove and put the steel bits on an oxalic acid bath to clean up the rust.You can buy home plating kits if you want to get crazy, you could also paint them black or silver or just leave them one they are clean and wipe frequently with some oil. I'll check the catalogs later and get some close dates on the components.

VeloBrox

I strongly advice against painting over what God meant to be chromed. The jobs I've seen always look like backyard kludges and the paint will eventually peel off. I sometimes brush on linseed oil on really bad spots to prevent further rusting.

peazweag

Who cares who built it mate.build the thing and ride forth

jr_nadel

Hey mate, thanks for all the info regarding the groupset. i think i may go for the wipe with oil option once i clean them up...seems to be the best choice. let me know if you come across any more details about the group.

To be honest I have no idea what Peter was basing the 531 call off (he did say something about a 27.2mm seat post being an indicator - but i know this isnt a hard and fast rule)...nonetheless, both he and John Abeni (Europa Cycles) have had a look and both said it was 531 just by looking at it, and i asked them both if they were certain. The reason why all this is important to me is because i want to label the bike appropriately (re: decals etc) and i also want to know what i am dealing with. it feels like im trying to reunite an orphan with its estranged parent or something like that. i wish i had taken some photos of what it looked like when i first got it. Anyway enough of that, let me know why you think it may be 753/725 and i can take a closer look.

THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR ALL THE INPUT! So much love on this thread!!!

cyclotoine

Sorry, I have moved several times in the last year and I cannot find my campagnolo catalogs CD.

As for the material, if two expert frame builders have told you they are certain than I guess you could just roll with that. Based on the components it does appear to be from before 1995 but that is not conclusive. I don't think straight blade forks became en vogue till the later half of the 1990s so I would still question that date. But 531 and 531R were still being used in the early 1990s and there are examples of 531 straight blade forks so it they think it is 531, I would believe them.