Fork threading (Italian, English, possible problems with wrong choice)
Hi,
Okay, so how bad it really is to have the headset in wrong threads (threading, threaded wrong)?
I am not sure of the threads on my fork although the most likely scenario is that the standard is Italian. Looking for a decent headset and saw Stronglight A9s sold cheap. Wouldn't be as nice as King, but I guess I would do fine. The problem: they are English.
I've seen Campagnolo Record here and there, but they are more expensive. Campagnolo has Italian threads, right?
So, barring the long shot of someone being able to check the threads, what would be the best option for me? I really wouldn't want to break anything or ruin the threads (nor would I want to 'spoil things' by going threadless in 1" -- just doesn't feel right with an older steel frame).
Oh yes: And if you could help me with the issue of stack height, much appreciated! (I believe that has to do with the length/height of the headtube and the amount of steerer on the forks?)
If your frame is Italian thread, an English thread A9 will work fine.
Re: stack height -- what headset do you have now? The A9 is fairly tall at 40mm stack; this may be a problem if your steer tube was cut for a short stack headset.
If your frame is Italian thread, an English thread A9 will work fine.
Re: stack height -- what headset do you have now? The A9 is fairly tall at 40mm stack; this may be a problem if your steer tube was cut for a short stack headset.
BTW, where did you find a cheap A9 headset?
Okay. Thank you.
Well, I am not sure if it is that cheap, but EUR 19.95 does not sound too expensive?
Oh, and the frame is without a headset at the moment. Never had one.
Last edited by tsathoggua; 11-08-09 at 09:26 AM.
Reason: Added stuff
And as the frame is NOS and has not felt the touch of tools other than the ones that made it, do you reckon there's a need to get the headtube faced and reamed? Is this something I can check with my own eyes?
And as the frame is NOS and has not felt the touch of tools other than the ones that made it, do you reckon there's a need to get the headtube faced and reamed? Is this something I can check with my own eyes?
That depends on how good the frame is. If it's a high quality one, facing shouldn't be needed. If it's a lower line or by a no-name or mass market maker, facing and reaming may be useful.
That depends on how good the frame is. If it's a high quality one, facing shouldn't be needed. If it's a lower line or by a no-name or mass market maker, facing and reaming may be useful.
It's the Rider frame I have been flaunting every chance I get. (Starting to feel a bit bad about it, actually -- like I'm force-feeding people.)
But I think it is a high quality frame, so I should be able to rest easy and just install the headset when it arrives.
Oh, and I have had to get one frame faced. It was my IRO, which, I believe, isn't that common an occurrence. Haven't had any problems after the operation, it has to be added. A nice frame with a good price.
And as the frame is NOS and has not felt the touch of tools other than the ones that made it, do you reckon there's a need to get the headtube faced and reamed? Is this something I can check with my own eyes?
EUR 19.95 is a decent price for the headset. Looking at the pictures of the frame you provided, there is paint/powder coat on the bottom bracket faces and threads; I assume the head tube faces are similarly covered. If this were my frame, I'd have it fully prepped (head tube milling/facing, bottom bracket chasing/facing, threaded fittings chased, etc.) prior to assembly. You may as well have the shop install the headset with the proper tools at the same time.
Looks like a great frame, though! Congratulations!
If this were my frame, I'd have it fully prepped (head tube milling/facing, bottom bracket chasing/facing, threaded fittings chased, etc.) prior to assembly. You may as well have the shop install the headset with the proper tools at the same time.
Yes, that does sound like the smart thing to do. Have to check when the shop might have time for it. (Not that I am in a hurry, mind, as the winter is already here and there are still components missing from the build.)
A little late but a JIS (standard shimano and the like) threaded head set would work with an Italian threaded fork. The threads have the same spacing, but with a slightly different pitch. The aluminum threads in the head set would conform to the steel threads of the fork during install. Once the conversion has been made stick with it though. Going back and forth will destroy the head set.
The only other sticking point on an Italian frame is the bottom bracket. It is larger than everything else so only an Italian will work. On other frames if you destroy the bottom bracket threads you can always have it rethreaded to Italian. No such luck with an Italian though. Also while Italian bottom brackets are still made finding the right sized axel can be hard as Campy and Shimano make only a limited number of sizes. Phil Wood makes many more sizes, but they definitely are pricey
Assuming bare frame with forks. All the other problems you will have will be the standard issues with building up an older frame long reach short reach brake calipers ect... Either build with European or JIS components it does not matter.
...a JIS (standard shimano and the like) threaded head set would work with an Italian threaded fork...
If this is a new build, the fork is most likely ISO, not Italian.
I don't think the 27mm ID crown race from a JIS headset would work very well on a 26.4mm seat.
The Stronglight should be fine.
The only other sticking point on an Italian frame is the bottom bracket. It is larger than everything else so only an Italian will work. On other frames if you destroy the bottom bracket threads you can always have it rethreaded to Italian. No such luck with an Italian though.
I was thinking of getting a Campagnolo Veloce groupset with Italian BB.
And yes, I have heard that once chosen, one should stick with the same standard headsets So, like you said, if I go Stronglight in English, I will stay that way.
Such elegant pieces of machinery, bicycles -- damn shame about the different standards. Won't help a newbie build one up. (I could've, of course, just bought a new one from the shop, but where's the fun and angst in that?)
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
