Zipp 404 type wheels, but without the $$$
02-01-07, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cslone
As has been said, either the Neuvations, or the Gigantex at chucksbikes.com.
02-01-07, 01:10 AM
#102
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They're the Performers. Should be the only carbon wheels on there.
Try a search on here for Gigantex. Someone just bought a set and likes them. They said to check the spoke tension before riding though.
Try a search on here for Gigantex. Someone just bought a set and likes them. They said to check the spoke tension before riding though.
02-01-07, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cslone
They're the Performers. Should be the only carbon wheels on there.
Try a search on here for Gigantex. Someone just bought a set and likes them. They said to check the spoke tension before riding though.
Try a search on here for Gigantex. Someone just bought a set and likes them. They said to check the spoke tension before riding though.
02-01-07, 01:55 AM
#104
Made in Norway
Originally Posted by slvoid
So if spiderman wanted to choose a wheel, that's the type of chart he'll look at...
02-01-07, 05:57 AM
#105
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Originally Posted by shawneebiker
Waldo, why bother responding to Slvoid, he's obviously got an axe to grind with Zipp. He's probably upset that he had to settle for the cheaper Reynolds instead of Zipps.
Having and engineer for a major manufacturer like Zipp here on this forum is a welcome change from the general ignorance of those who routinely post a bunch of nonsense....
Having and engineer for a major manufacturer like Zipp here on this forum is a welcome change from the general ignorance of those who routinely post a bunch of nonsense....
Originally Posted by slvoid
Since you're obviously as stubborn about this as I am, this is the last time I'm posting here too. To answer your question, when I questioned the durability of zipp's a few weeks ago, your "expert" went ahead and said they've never had a problem and asked where all the negative comments were coming from, so I showed him all the poor reviews, rather than fessing up to it, he just down played it like it wasn't a problem and that everything was corrected, despite the fact that both bike shops I've been in told me they had a lot of returns on zipps. Next thing you know, he's bashing other manufacturers and talking about their "questionable" alloys and manufacturing techniques when almost every review I've seen about them is positive (as opposed to the zipp's).
I'm sorry if I somehow offended you while you're trying to play nice to the zipp guy (maybe he'll get you a discount) but everything he's said to me while I was searching for a set of wheels to actually buy, lead me to believe he sounded more like a used car salesman than anything. I haven't gotten any honest useful information from him other than constantly praising his wheels and denying that they had any problems.
Believe me, I do the same thing at work too (even though I bash my product the first chance I get). Whenever I'm talking to a customer (I'm the 2nd mech. engineer there), guess what, I lie like a mofo.
Enjoy your zipps.
I'm sorry if I somehow offended you while you're trying to play nice to the zipp guy (maybe he'll get you a discount) but everything he's said to me while I was searching for a set of wheels to actually buy, lead me to believe he sounded more like a used car salesman than anything. I haven't gotten any honest useful information from him other than constantly praising his wheels and denying that they had any problems.
Believe me, I do the same thing at work too (even though I bash my product the first chance I get). Whenever I'm talking to a customer (I'm the 2nd mech. engineer there), guess what, I lie like a mofo.
Enjoy your zipps.
Originally Posted by Waldo
No maybe about it. Last year we went through 10 laminate revisions alone, one of the perks of having all manufacturing in house, as opposed to buying hubs and rims off the shelf. The bearings have been switched, the hubs are of an entirely new design, and the springs have been changed since that reviewer had an issue. EDIT: All of these reviews cite issues taken care of at least one hub iteration ago, and in some cases 2 or 3 iterations prior to the current hubs.
Spoke hole issues are very rare, and I'm not sure how one person arrived at a replacement cost of $700 for a wheel. We have a very generous crash replacement policy for all wheels out of our warranty; this covers wheels for up to 5 years.
Admittedly, there were problems in the past. We've learned quite a bit from our past mistakes and continue to add resources and people to help improve our products. We've also added quite a bit more staff to our customer service and warranty areas to address some of the customer service issues.
Spoke hole issues are very rare, and I'm not sure how one person arrived at a replacement cost of $700 for a wheel. We have a very generous crash replacement policy for all wheels out of our warranty; this covers wheels for up to 5 years.
Admittedly, there were problems in the past. We've learned quite a bit from our past mistakes and continue to add resources and people to help improve our products. We've also added quite a bit more staff to our customer service and warranty areas to address some of the customer service issues.
Lastly, I would never lie about our product-first, there's no incentive for me to do so as I don't see any extra money due to sales, and it reflects badly on me and worse on the company. In this day and age, it's easy enough to find the truth so that would be exceptionally stupid.
Thank you, carry on...
Last edited by Waldo; 02-01-07 at 08:03 AM.
02-01-07, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Waldo
As to your last comment, I pray that you are not foolish enough to believe I would reveal the exact composition and treatment of our truly proprietary alloys. x10
x10
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02-01-07, 09:16 AM
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02-01-07, 11:01 AM
#108
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Originally Posted by cslone
They're the Performers. Should be the only carbon wheels on there.
Try a search on here for Gigantex. Someone just bought a set and likes them. They said to check the spoke tension before riding though.
Try a search on here for Gigantex. Someone just bought a set and likes them. They said to check the spoke tension before riding though.
02-01-07, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Waldo
1. Call Alcoa. You can't get the alloy we use, but try pricing their 2000 series aluminum. The nice thing was when they notified us of price increases the same day they announced record profits. Also, I apologize for pluralizing alloys in my post, but it should be pretty clear that I was specifically addressing the Reynolds wheel in question. Way to turn it into a blanket statement, though.
2. You are correct that our hubs are forged prior to machining, for obvious reasons. We use a 5 axis CNC because it is necessary to achieve the results we desire.
3. My apologies for not specifying that I was referring to the Jets, and for apparently offending your sensibilities somewhere along the line.
You are the proud owner of Reynolds wheels, no?
Yes, I am employed by Zipp. As an engineer, I missed the part of the job description that requires me to post information on forums (while not on company time) so I can be called a liar by someone who is himself spreading misinformation about his chosen brand. I guess it's a good thing I'm not in sales, judging by some of the responses here. In past threads, I had people thank me for my responses as an industry employee, while here things are on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Yes, I work for Zipp. It is a great job working with lots of fellow cyclists. Definitely the coolest job I've had. I'll leave it at that for fear of being labeled a shill in describing my working environment.
2. You are correct that our hubs are forged prior to machining, for obvious reasons. We use a 5 axis CNC because it is necessary to achieve the results we desire.
3. My apologies for not specifying that I was referring to the Jets, and for apparently offending your sensibilities somewhere along the line.
You are the proud owner of Reynolds wheels, no?
Yes, I am employed by Zipp. As an engineer, I missed the part of the job description that requires me to post information on forums (while not on company time) so I can be called a liar by someone who is himself spreading misinformation about his chosen brand. I guess it's a good thing I'm not in sales, judging by some of the responses here. In past threads, I had people thank me for my responses as an industry employee, while here things are on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Yes, I work for Zipp. It is a great job working with lots of fellow cyclists. Definitely the coolest job I've had. I'll leave it at that for fear of being labeled a shill in describing my working environment.
Originally Posted by Waldo
With that, I end my thread subscription and leave some of you to proceed with bashing me. Hopefully it makes your lives somehow more complete.
I don't have a problem with you being here as an industry worker. I think it's more that you bash every single company out there and act as if you are clearly have the best wheels in the world, no matter what, just because you felt like saying so. I get the implession that you think more of yourself than the BD guys do and you do come across as a shill. Some of it could be true but it's so mixed up with things that are massively exaggerated or flat out not true that it all seems fishy.
02-01-07, 01:14 PM
#110
Ride it like you stole it
Originally Posted by rruff
As I recall, he said that the spoke tension was out of wack to compensate for the rim not being straight... or at least that is how it sounded. When he evened the tension, the wheel was very wavy. That doesn't seem like a recommendation to me...
As a point of reference, I mentioned the wheels to the wheelbuilder I used for my PF-RS build and he said that his former employer had gotten samples to see if they wanted to use the rims. The good thing was that the rims were well finished and very rigid, the bad thing was that the weights of the individual rims were in such a wide range that it was impossible to accurately estimate finished wheel weights, they passed on Gigantex because of that.
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05-23-07, 04:51 PM
#111
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Check out www.williamscycling.com, the 50c model is all carbon with great specs and they are $1k. Alum/Carbon version is $769. I just can't see beating those specs for the money.
I have their system 30x model and they have been great, along with personable customer service.
I have their system 30x model and they have been great, along with personable customer service.
05-23-07, 05:46 PM
#112
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Originally Posted by waterrockets
4-figure wheels can never be part of a "reasoned cost-benefit analysis" unless you have an insane budget, the rear wheel has a Power-Tap in it, or you consider looks to be a benefit. The benefits are really slight, but the costs are huge. I have friends going through the wheel upgrade path now, and I still ride them off my wheel this week, just like I did last week. $1000 didn't seem to help much.
Not to mention huge savings can be made by having a more aerodynamic helmet. You can reduce the drag by 2% with an aero helmet. Also proper body position(which is free) can account for another 25-30%.
05-23-07, 06:55 PM
#113
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady
Not to mention huge savings can be made by having a more aerodynamic helmet. You can reduce the drag by 2% with an aero helmet. Also proper body position(which is free) can account for another 25-30%.
Needed Watts for Speed = 45 km/h :
Stevens San Remo bike with normal handlebar 465 Watts needed to go 45 km/h
Same bike Hands down the drops: 406 watts needed
Same bikeEaston Aeroforce bar: 369 Watts
Same bike Triathlon position (5.5 cm lower bar, saddle forwards): 360 Watts
Same bike Triathlon position (5.5 cm lower bar, saddle forwards) and carbon Tri spoke wheels front and rear: 345 Watt
Cervelo + Tri spoke front 328 Watts
Cervelo + Tri spoke front + disk rear wheel : 320
Cervelo + Tri spoke front + disk rear wheel +Giro helmet: 317
Cervelo + Tri spoke front + disk rear wheel +Giro helmet + speed suit: 307
Cervelo + Tri spoke front + disk rear wheel +Giro helmet + speed suit +
saddle 3 cm further back: 293 Watts
Assuming zipp's are 2/3rd's as efficient as trispokes, you're around 10 watts over a normal wheel and maybe 2-3 watts over say, a mike garcia cxray deep-v special.
Having nothing but an aerobar saves almost a whopping 100 watts. The helmet and speed suit shaves another 13 watts.
You can save another 30 watts if your head looked like this:
05-23-07, 07:01 PM
#114
Senior Member
Originally Posted by slvoid
Let's see: ...
Assuming zipp's are 2/3rd's as efficient as trispokes, ...
Assuming zipp's are 2/3rd's as efficient as trispokes, ...
B) On what do you base your assumption that 404's are 2/3 as efficient (whatever that means) as trispokes. All the data I've seen shows there is little difference in CdA between them, e.g., biketechreview.com.
05-23-07, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle
A) Source for data?
B) On what do you base your assumption that 404's are 2/3 as efficient (whatever that means) as trispokes. All the data I've seen shows there is little difference in CdA between them, e.g., biketechreview.com.
B) On what do you base your assumption that 404's are 2/3 as efficient (whatever that means) as trispokes. All the data I've seen shows there is little difference in CdA between them, e.g., biketechreview.com.
b) Ok, so they're just as efficient as trispokes and the difference in savings is negligable. 2/3rds means 2 divided by 3, or roughly 66.666666667%. I'm not sure why you asked that but it's commonly known as a "fraction." That assumption was based on pure hilarity, as is the assumption that most people know what 2/3 means.
But you'll still save more watts if you looked like this:
05-23-07, 07:18 PM
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That's disgusting. You're banned for the next thirty-two seconds.
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05-23-07, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ElJamoquio
That's disgusting. You're banned for the next thirty-two seconds.
05-23-07, 07:20 PM
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Damn straight.
Let freedom ring.... let the white dove sing...
Let freedom ring.... let the white dove sing...
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05-23-07, 07:25 PM
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Let The Whole World Know That Today Is A Day Of Reckoning!
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05-23-07, 07:30 PM
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Have you been drinking?
05-23-07, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Bonnet
yeah... just like my wife wants a bmw wagon all trimmed out with low miles for $15k that's not going to happen.. kinda like gettin zipp 404's for around $1k
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05-23-07, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by slvoid
Have you been drinking?
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06-16-07, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Waldo
It is not a fairing, as on Hed/Bontrager rims. It's a different molding process than for our traditional rims, but certainly not a fairing in the sense of the others I mentioned.
The price delta when examining Zipp wheels vs. Reynolds can be directly traced to the enormous cost differential between our hub and the Taiwanese ones most of our competitors use. US-made on a 5-axis CNC with ridiculously expensive Alcoa alloy vs. forged, inferior alloys and Taiwanese or Chinese bearings adds up to quite a cost difference.
We had a handful of bad bearings last year that were quickly remedied. Sorry to hear one poster got a set of those, but I would wait until I give someone a chance to make good on a mistake prior to bashing 'em on the internet. That's just me, though.
The Real design wheels that have been mentioned are Flash Point rims, though they now seem to be using the Joy Tech knock-off of the Zipp hubs, which is a nice touch.
The price delta when examining Zipp wheels vs. Reynolds can be directly traced to the enormous cost differential between our hub and the Taiwanese ones most of our competitors use. US-made on a 5-axis CNC with ridiculously expensive Alcoa alloy vs. forged, inferior alloys and Taiwanese or Chinese bearings adds up to quite a cost difference.
We had a handful of bad bearings last year that were quickly remedied. Sorry to hear one poster got a set of those, but I would wait until I give someone a chance to make good on a mistake prior to bashing 'em on the internet. That's just me, though.
The Real design wheels that have been mentioned are Flash Point rims, though they now seem to be using the Joy Tech knock-off of the Zipp hubs, which is a nice touch.
06-16-07, 09:37 AM
#125
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Originally Posted by xrunr
Are the Flashpoints not co-molded like the traditional Zipps? I think someone in another forum said they were foam with carbon laid over.
I should clarify my earlier comment: Flash Point rims are molded using the same patented process as is used with the Zipp line; the laminate structure differs in the number of plies and the material employed, adding a bit of weight but making the preform far less labor intensive and thus reducing cost.