berlinonaut

Searching for less reach in combination with a low bar is a bit of an unusual problem on a Brompton. Here are some options:

1.) Buy a used MK3. It has the old mainframe, used from 1987 up to 2004, which is about 3cm shorter (wheelbase 101cm vs. 104 cm on the Mk4). Mk3 is better than Mk2 as, being the latest model with the old frame, it has the best components of the older models, thus not needing many upgrade parts. This means: Dual caliper front brake, better spokes and some other bits. I'd upgrade to the brake levers of the post 2013-bikes and install a rear frame clip (standard from 2008 on). The Mk3 was built from 2000 - 2004 and I would try to find one after 2002 as it already has the bolt on for the dreailleur on the rear-frame. Or you manage to find an early one with the five-gear S/A-sprinter on it (quite rare as only built for less than a year).

That leaves 7cm to go.

2.) Change and tilt your bars. As the Mk3 is always an M-model it as (together with the P) the lowest stem of all standard bromptons (valid for the M-model BEFORE 2017). Switch the bars to something lower than the standard (i.e. the new standard brompton-bars used from 2017 on) and tilt them towards you. Quick-release on the bolt makes the bike fold as usual. Should almost solve the issue. Works best with the M-stem as the stem itself has less of an angle than the P but the P should still be ok.


Alternatively you could also use a Dahon/Tern andros stem adaptor with a flat bar - it offers about 8cm of "negative" reach. https://buy.ternbicycles.com/products/andros-stem

3.) Use the Brompton seatpost-adapter-pin (part number QSAPA). This should bring the rest of the necessary limitation of reach w/o bringing the saddle too far forward. (BTW: This pin should always be pointing forward, never backwards as shown at nycewheels as this would stress the frame too much).



With a combination of all three you should be there.

As an alternative you could look at this company from the netherlands. They could provide you with a custom made stem, usually used for getting higher bars. But you could obviously also use it for getting less reach, using an ahead stem the other way round (or possibly a traditional stem in the same way). This way you would possibly not have to deal with the saddle position but the folded size of the bike would become bigger.

linberl

I suspect I COULD make it work, but do I want to (1) go to all that trouble and (2) pay all the extra money on top of a not-cheap brompton and (3) not have a guarantee it will work? Nope. It's adorable and I love the looks and the fold is amazing, yes, but I'd still be carrying it up 3 flights to my son's apartment so I would end up buying a super light model. Then I'd have to add on the cost of retrofitting it to maybe make it comfortable. It's just all too much trouble. And takes away some of the joy of getting a new bike by making it a pita.
With the pakiT, I know it will fit. I will get a bike that is less than 19 lbs with saddle/pedals. I already know how to repair/work on it so no learning curve. I can easily lift and carry it. It's a different "look" and not as cute as the brompton and it doesn't fold as compactly (but it does fold as fast or faster in quick fold mode which is what I'd use). And it will be exactly the way I want it right from the start, no headaches.
I may always jones over the look of the brompton but it will be like looking at a Van Gogh longing even though you already have a Picasso, lol. I've got "old-fashioned" taste which is why I like my lovely quill Technomics stem and graceful Nitto bars over an ahead stem and straight bars in terms of pure looks.
But I can learn to love that damned Picasso just as much as that Van Gogh!!!
I know there's the Curve and the Curl but I'm definitely a steel bike girl...I've ridden aluminum bikes and just not crazy about the road feel. I came super close to buying a Swift Xootr instead of my BF and the only thing that made me pass on the Swift was I could FEEL a different ride quality, purely subjective, that I was not crazy about. You can knock your teeth out riding on some of the roads here and the steel just really helps to soak it up.
So I will cast longing looks as I see people on Brompton's (and I blow past them on my pakiT, lol).
I know in Europe, people can rent bromptons just by the day; wish they did that here. Then I could get my brompton "fix" by renting one every so often. Fit wouldn't matter if I was just pootling around for a few hours.

badmother

Here we agree for sure!

Just make sure those longing looks is not misunderstood

reppans

This may be a long shot, but would you consider an alternative carry method - ie, on top of a shoulder? There's a reason that you'll always see delivery guys carrying those 5 gal/40lb water cooler jugs, or 50lb sand bags on top their shoulder - it is FAR easier, better balanced, and more efficient than suitcase style (i.e., hanging from an arm, below waist, at side of leg). Shoulder carry does take a little technique and practice to bring it up and used to the balance point, but you don't need to be strong (avg, female should have no problem w/25lbs). A great way to compare/practice is to just load a airline carry-on bag with 10-15lbs and walk through your entire home trying both shoulder carry and suitcase carry - work the weight up as you get comfortable with it.

Suitcase style, I'll only carry my folder (up 34lbs btw, loaded w/accessories, gear, lock, and water) a few yards, and in open areas. Longer distances, staircases, narrow halls, and especially going through doors, it invariably goes up on my shoulder. For even longer distances, I'll use both shoulders.

linberl

I'd consider it, but it still means my other points apply...too much trouble, no guarantee of it, additional cost. Maybe if i come across a really really cheap used one...

reppans

Sorry, wasn't trying to recommend the Brompton so much (if it doesn't fit you, it doesn't fit) - I was more trying to suggest a easier way to carry your Pakit up those 3 flights... or even more in a different situation.

I think you can shoulder carry many folders, just might require an extra step to tie-up/Velcro lock the fold. I saw the folded Packit and all you need is a clear section of that main tube to rest on a shoulder (a stick-on pad helps) - just might need to position the folded handbar lower.

linberl

Ah, I thought you meant the brommie. Not worried about carrying the pakiT - it will maybe not be quite even 19 lbs and I can carry that easily with the shoulder strap thing I have.

jur

You could use an aber-hallo style adapter to bring the bars closer too without much fold impact.

linberl

I thought about that, but wouldn't it bring them up as well? The S bar is as high as I would want.

berlinonaut

You can let the Aber Hallo point upwards, backwards, forward - as you like. That's what I suggested with the Andros a couple of postings earlier. Works exactly the same. The difference between the two is that the Andros has a quick-release out of the box (with the Aber Hallo you have to have to build a solution yourself) and the Andros is higher (or in your case: shortens the reach more) than the Aber Hallo.
If putting one of those on an S-Brompton is enough for you I'd go for it. You'll however possibly need longer cables.

linberl

I went and looked at both devices (Thor USA) and it seems no matter what it raises the bars as you shorten the reach. Unless you put it on "backwards" which would totally alter the handling of the bike. Am I missing something?

badmother

Nothing wrong with backwards once you get used to it I`d say. Is there much difference between "10 cm`s in front of the stem as we are used to and 10 cm`s behind the stem?

linberl

Hmmmm....have you ever done it? All I can say is when I switched from straight bars to north roads the steering was a LOT more twitchy. I got used to it eventually as it eliminated some pains I had. I can't imagine what a backwards stem would do, especially out of the saddle. As for the brompton, I don't want one enough to go through all these hoops to make it work...sort of. For me, that's the one critical flaw with the brompton - it's one size fits all, or doesn't. I just can't justify spending 2 grand on a bike that ends up looking like a franken burger.

Joe Remi

Frankly, I don't know why people are still trying to talk you into a bike you don't want. You want a Pakit. Get a Pakit!

berlinonaut

Well, obviously not - it seems more that her heart is sold to a Brommi and the Packit is just the choice that looks easier. Whatever bike she chooses does not matter to me.

berlinonaut

Well, it seems obvious to me that if you want to shorten reach you have to point the thing backwards - that's the whole idea. You have three possibilities for shortening the reach:
- bring the saddle more forward. You don't want that.
- use a shorter frame (by buying a used bike). You don't want that.
- bring the bars further back. You don't want that either.



That said I know a lot of short people that either are happy with the standard S-model or ride a M- or P-model with S-bars mounted. Personally I know nobody who has shortened the reach, no matter how small. If you have access to the Brompton-book by David Henshaw: On page 163 there's a picture of a m-Brompton that has been adopted to fit a child of maybe eight years of age or maybe less (judging from the picture). Modifications are:

- shorter cranks (145mm)
- shortened seat post
- saddle pin adapter
- shorter suspension block
- shorter brake levers (no longer necessary as today's levers are adjustable)
- shortened M-stem with stock M-bars.

The reach in the bar area has not been shortened artificially and still it seems to fit.

So if you still need the modification and (wrongly) are in fear of the adaptor raising the height (or just do not want to point it backwards) use a lower stem than the S - as said a couple of postings before: P-stem or M-stem (the latter preferably before 2017) are lower than the S plus at the same time have less reach than the S-stem (look at the picture a couple of postings above). With one of those in combination with one of the adaptors mentioned an an S-bar you should be able to have the same height as an S with less reach AND pointing the adaptor not straight backwards but sloped to an angle. Either way you'll not end up with higher bars than an S.

The money involved is more or less negligible. I.e. if you start with an M or P-model: You need an S-bar (30€), the stem adaptor (20-60€) and possibly the seat pin adaptor (10-30€). So roughly 100€ max. minus what you get for selling the stock bar.

berlinonaut

Here's what it would more or less look like. I have an H-model Bromton with an S-bar fitted to a riser (neither Aber Hallo nor Andros, but comparable) to gain a little bit more height as I am reasonably tall and the S is too low for me. As it is just two screws I just tilted it the way you would possibly have to to get less reach. Looks unusual but not awkward and definitively not like a franken burger.

linberl

Lol, okay to clarify -- in terms of pure "looks" I want a brompton. However, when I'm dropping 2 grand for a bike I do not expect to jump through hoops to then "make do" with the fit, at extra cost, with no guarantee. If I was buying a traditional road bike for 2k, I would expect that bike to fit me well before I went out the door and if it did not, I would keep looking. It's expected that a road bike dealer in that price range will have stems/posts, etc. and be able to make appropriate changes to the bike.

Just because the Brompton has a terrific fold does not, imo, excuse it from the same requirement. Looks and fold aside, it seems to me that the Brompton community has grown and developed all kinds of alternatives...to make up for a bike that is less than ideal. Brompton and their dealers can make very few modifications for fit. They leave it to their customers to alter the bike to make it work for them if the single frame size doesn't work. And those modifications just add weight, too.

While I do not love the looks of the pakiT (because I prefer rounded lines, classic styling), I know I can drop 2k on a Bike Friday and I will not need to do anything after-market in terms of fit. Any after market purchases will be just for bling =). In my mind, anyway, that's the way a bike should be. And fit beats fold and looks every day.

The only way I would commit my $ to a Brompton was if I could ride it with the modifications before I buy. And that's obviously not going to happen. It just doesn't make any sense to me to buy a bike that doesn't fit. That's just me.... so appreciate the looks of the Brompton I will, but ride a Bike Friday I must =).

Now, if I ride the pakiT on tuesday and for some reason decide I don't like it -- sheesh. Not sure what I would do. I could drop a bundle on my NWT and make it super light but I would never be able to lock it up without fear of it getting stripped. I guess I'd probably just wait for something else to come on the market :-(.

tdonline

Linberl, there's always the Helix!

Oh wait...

My mechanical knowledge of bikes is disgracefully small so this may be a pretty terrible suggestion. If I understand correctly, a lightweight bike is of great importance for you. As it is for me. How about the Solorock Spin 3 (or something in the same vein)? It's around $500 and you upgrade the bike with the remaining grand? The bike is 21 pounds with rack and fenders.

linberl

Lol, the helix is a 24" wheel, anyway. The solorock is fine but I can get the pakiT under 19lb with saddle/pedals. Don't need/want racks as I will have a travoy. And I don't have to screw around with upgrading; they'll configure as I wish. I don't think there is another steel 16" bike out there that would be lighter except maybe the hummingbird, at that is just plain ridiculous in terms of cost (not sure it's 16" anyway).

berlinonaut

Well - Brompton has four different stems and three different posts with at least one of the combinations fitting most riders. This choice may not be sufficient for every given rider but it is more than many other bikes offer, even in that price range. Most stock bikes you have to customize in one way or another it is always on your own risc and cost.

Well no bike is "ideal" and your needs seem to be very special, at least in terms of reach. A good dealer will no doubt do customize the bike for you, even a Brompton. I know a couple of dealers in Germany that are willing to do this if you demand it and at least one that offers it when appropriate for your body-size and -shape before you demand it. Still the Brompton is a bike that comes as a complete bike from the factory, so it is understandable that modifications by dealers are a bit limited, as some of them may influence the warranty and - as the Brompton is a tiny but complex beast - many dealers lack knowledge. Plus many of the accessories come from Asia and the longterm-quality is as unknown as if they have been constructed, manufactured and tested to modern western (legal) standards, therefor dealers are not keen on building these onto customers bikes.
It may however be the case that you have a lack of good and competent dealers in your area - can't judge on that.


Brompton is a factory, putting out more than 50.000 bikes a year. Bike friday is a family business, putting out ~2000 bikes a year, judging from their recent crowd-funding campaign. Brompton sells standard models, bike friday sells custom bikes - nothing wrong with either, still a different business model. I am not sure if you can test-ride a BF exactly with the mods that you'd want on your own bike - at the moment most customers seem to order on the phone or via web from the factory and many have not even ridden or seen a BF before ordering one, let alone their personal configuration...

Possibly you should go for the Packit as even when the Brompton can be made to fit for your special needs you'd still complain that it does not come as a standard-model that way (which to me seems a bit of a weird approach to be honest).
Please let us know how the Packit fits for you regarding sizing! I am wondering as - going through their configurator - I could not find out if they are building the frame to custom fit or if it is just the stem that has a different height (strangely enough I did neither find blades nor a rack nor lighting options in the configurator as well).

Joe Remi

I have a Brompton. It's never going to be 19 pounds no matter how much money I spend on it. Linberl wants a Pakit. It will be 19 pounds.

linberl

I understand the difference in the business models - but specialized and trek sell thousands and thousands of bikes and their dealers can send you on the way with a bike that fits. That's all I'm saying. As for bike friday, if you don't already have one, you can send in your precise measurements from any bike that fits and they will replicate it. I happen to already have one, so it's a non-issue. I also had a pro bike fit and they asked me to send them those measurements as well. People who fit the bromptons "as is" are like people who don't need to get their pants shortened - they just annoy me

I will be test riding a pakiT on tuesday which has a frame sized very similar to my current BF. The owner has it set for a more upright riding position than I like, but I will not have any trouble inferring ride quality and since the measurements will be exactly what I order a precise replica isn't necessary for the test ride. BF set up my test ride; if you ask, they contact local customers on your behalf with your basic config. Racks, fenders, lights are all available through their parts page but I don't need or want any of that. I've got plenty of lights, a burley travoy trailer so I don't need a rack, and a qr fender which I will use. Not my first bike; I have lots and lots of "stuff" lol. Too much, really.

If I decide I don't like the pakiT, the brompton is not going to be my alternative. You might be okay spending 2 grand on a bike and then hoping you can make it fit you well, but I'm most def not. That's something I might do with a $500 Dahon.

berlinonaut

Possibly you should try harder - if not at lightening your bike at least to get hold of proper information before posting.








6,7 kg Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/shinnaj...romptonfolders

And so on and so on. All those were already there back in 2014...

berlinonaut

Which means you don't wear pants are you are not willing to pay for shortening them?