whitemax

They claim that it prevents lactate acid buildup and consequently better performance. Looks like glorified tums according to the ingredients. Anybody here every try it? Looks to be fairly cheap if you only have to take it while riding as opposed to taking it several times per day.

supcom

Tums are probably cheaper. The generic Tums knockoffs even more so. They all probably work almost as well as nothing.

Enthalpic

Bicarbonate is better than carbonate... more CO2.

You can just add some baking soda to your last bottle.

https://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sodium-bicarbonate.html

If you search some more you will find they suggest sickening amounts of the stuff.

whitemax

Thanks for the responses but I am looking for any that might have actually used it. The ingredients look similar to tums but we can only speculate as to whether or not this stuff may work. There are several sports greats that endorse it. Sure they get paid but I can't imagine any of these figures to allow their name to be used for a product that does not work thereby tarnishing their reputation. Anybody out there tried it?

supcom

Certainly no sports star would ever do anything to risk his reputation.

whitemax

Certainly there are those that just want money and don't care what folks think about it when they find out the product stinks but I would think that most would care. I would. But I'm still looking for someone who has tried this stuff. Any?

supcom

While I am not familiar with the product you mention, I can say that even with the best intentions, elite athletes are generally not qualified to determine whether a dietary supplement performs as the maker claims. Consider that an elite athlete goes through a multi-faceted training program and almost certainly could not isolate what effect a product like this will have. The placebo effect will almost certainly be a large factor in a given person's perception of effectiveness. Anecdotal evidence is not reliable.

BTW, despite the risk of being branded a cheat in every cycling publication on earth, we still have cases of famous cyclists getting caught in doping scandals. What worse thing can happen to a cyclists reputation that to be caught cheating?

yak

I tried it a couple years back and didn't notice much of a difference. I even posted to that effect on this board.

I tried it again this winter before each spin class, and I have found that they do decrease that lactic acid burn as compared to not using them.

I believe the difference the second time is I was in a spin class that really pushed me above and beyond my comfort zone, which is difficult (but not impossible) for me to do just riding on my own. My other test will be riding hills with my local hammerheads this spring.

YMMV

WarrenG

Lactic acid (lactate) is part of your fuel/energy system. In itself it's not a bad thing. That burning sensation you feel isn't really _because_ of lactic acid, it's due to the lowered ph in your blood and an abundance of hydrogen. The increase in blood lactate levels is a good proxy (indicator) that your ph is declining and there is an increase in hydrogen.

So, does the supplement help you with what is actually detrimental for your performance?

VosBike

warreng, the low pH and increased free hydrogen in your blood are both direct consequences of increased lactate levels. That is, in fact, the most basic definition of an acid, a species which increases the hydrogen ion concentration (and thereby lowers the pH).

The reason this is detrimental to performance is that cells cease to operate (and therefore generate power) when the pH gets too low.

The theory of sportslegs, and other products like it, is that it will raise the pH of your blood by neutralizing the lactate. However, it was never been tested in a trial that I've seen and many critics say that the buffering ingriedents never get into the blood stream.

I'm sorry whitemax that I have no expierence with sportslegs, I was hoping to find some comments from riders who do.

WarrenG

I agree that low ph is a problem and buffering the ph of the blood might improve the performance, but how and why you buffer it is the question. As you probably know, one can do specific training intended to improve the body's buffering mechanisms.

The following quote is found here...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactate


"During intense exercise, such as sprinting type activities, when the rate of demand for energy is high, lactate is produced faster than the ability of the tissues to remove it and lactate concentration begins to rise. This is a beneficial process since the regeneration of NAD+ ensures that energy production is maintained and exercise can continue. Contrary to popular belief, this increased concentration of lactate does not directly cause acidosis, nor is it responsible for muscle pain or "burning". This is because lactate itself is not capable of releasing a proton, and secondly, the acidic form of lactate (lactic acid) cannot be formed under normal circumstances in human tissues. Analysis of the glycolytic pathway in humans indicates that there are not enough hydrogen ions present in the glycolytic intermediates to produce lactic or any other acid.

The acidosis that is associated with increases in lactate concentration during heavy exercise arises from a completely separate reaction. When ATP is hydrolysed (split) for energy, a hydrogen ion is released. It is these hydrogen ions that are primarily responsible for the decrease in pH. During intense exercise, oxidative metabolism (aerobic) cannot produce ATP quick enough to supply the demands of the muscle. As a result, glycolysis (i.e. anaerobic metabolism) becomes the dominant energy producing pathway as it can form ATP at high rates. Due to the large amounts of ATP being produced and hydrolysed in a short period of time, the buffering systems of the tissues are overcome, causing pH to fall and creating a state of acidosis. This may be one factor, among many, that contributes to the acute muscular discomfort experienced shortly after intense exercise."


More detail and some nice summaries are found here...
https://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article...r/lactate.html

A few key quotes...
"What is the Actual Cause of Acidosis?
During vigorous exercise, the ATP (high-energy compound from which the cells derive energy) demands of muscle contraction are considerable. Every time an ATP molecule is split for energy it is broken down into an ADP and inorganic phosphate molecule, with the release of one hydrogen ion (another name for a hydrogen ion is a proton). It is the increase in protons that defines and causes acidosis, quantified by a decrease in pH below 7.0."

What about Lactate Production and the Role of Lactate?
During the demands of high-intensity exercise, the cell is utilizing a lot of glucose (from glycolysis) and muscle glycogen (stored form of glucose). The final step of glucose breakdown results in the production of two molecules of pyruvate. The pyruvate molecules begin to accumulate in the cell, as well as the protons (from the splitting of ATP) from the vigorous exercise. In order to neutralize the soaring accumulation of pyruvate and protons (from the splitting of ATP), each pyruvate molecule absorbs two protons into its structure, converting to lactate. Thus, lactate production is ACTUALLY A CONSEQUENCE of cellular acidosis and NOT the cause of the acidosis. More blatantly, lactate production actually ******* ACIDOSIS. Lactate is a temporary ‘neutralizer’ or ‘buffer’ to the cells elevated accumulation of protons during high-intensity exercise. Since increased lactate production coincides with acidosis, lactate measurement is an excellent ‘indirect’ marker for the metabolic condition of the cell.
Lactate production is therefore good and not bad for contracting muscle. Lactate is not a bad molecule, and it has been given a bad rap from being falsely blamed for the cause of acidosis."

supcom

I certainly wonder how an acid neutralizer can make it through the digestion without reacting with the stomach acid.

LapDog

I tried them during the state time trial championships last year. It may be all in my head, but my legs didn't have the usual "burn". They still hurt towards the end because I was trying to push beyond anything I've done before, but I would have to say there was a difference.

licho76

Hi, i actually use Sportlegs, i been using the pills 4 days ago, and maybe its in my brain but i fels that thing really works, i not everyday user, but only when i train hard or in races, theres a difference bettew used or not used

Carbonfiberboy 

Never taken Sportlegs, but I do have experience with Tums and other calcium supplements. They work well. My stoker swears by Tums for cramps, and I swear by calcium/magnesium capsules for cramps. I don't know what the calcium does, but it works. The magnesium is supposed to relax the muscles, but calcium works by itself, too.

Note that Sportlegs is not the same as Tums, as Sportlegs contains calcium and magnesium in the usual 2:1 ratio. Tums contains only calcium.

If you aren't already taking a good cal/mag supplement before and after riding, I think you would benefit from one, though there are less expensive ones than Sportlegs. I doubt that the lactate in the pills does anything other than make the calcium and magnesium easy to absorb. One of the big selling points of Cytomax is that it contains lactate, but it works no better than any other high GI liquid food source.

helifitz

I've been using them for about a year. Prior to using them I had problems with leg cramps during long hard races. Sportlegs works for me. I use them along with Hammer's Endurolytes with no issues. I'll still get the occasionally cramp after a very intense sprint late in a race, but nothing like before I started using them.