index vs friction shifters/deraillers
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index vs friction shifters/deraillers
So I am shopping for MTB parts for my rebuild, if the item doesn't specifically say, how do I know if I am getting a friction derailler or a index? I currently have a shimano xt front derailler and am looking for shifters and rear derailler. is the xt a friction or index? sorry if this is confusing
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Originally Posted by cohophysh
So I am shopping for MTB parts for my rebuild, if the item doesn't specifically say, how do I know if I am getting a friction derailler or a index? I currently have a shimano xt front derailler and am looking for shifters and rear derailler. is the xt a friction or index? sorry if this is confusing
Sheldon "Easy One" Brown
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Hi Mr. Brown,
Is there a way to get a Dura Ace ax rear der into friction?
I tried to use a DA ax rear der for a 7 or 8 speed indexed shifters but the ax rear der looks like its indexed for 6sp. I even tried disassembling the derailleur thinking I can grind those teeth from the der but now I can not even put the darn thing back to working condition. This is the part where the loaded spring goes back into the dropout bolt.
thank you in advance for any tips...
sincerely,
-gas
Is there a way to get a Dura Ace ax rear der into friction?
I tried to use a DA ax rear der for a 7 or 8 speed indexed shifters but the ax rear der looks like its indexed for 6sp. I even tried disassembling the derailleur thinking I can grind those teeth from the der but now I can not even put the darn thing back to working condition. This is the part where the loaded spring goes back into the dropout bolt.
thank you in advance for any tips...
sincerely,
-gas
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#4
Senior Member
Originally Posted by superunleaded
Hi Mr. Brown,
Is there a way to get a Dura Ace ax rear der into friction?
I tried to use a DA ax rear der for a 7 or 8 speed indexed shifters but the ax rear der looks like its indexed for 6sp. I even tried disassembling the derailleur thinking I can grind those teeth from the der but now I can not even put the darn thing back to working condition. This is the part where the loaded spring goes back into the dropout bolt.
thank you in advance for any tips...
sincerely,
-gas
Is there a way to get a Dura Ace ax rear der into friction?
I tried to use a DA ax rear der for a 7 or 8 speed indexed shifters but the ax rear der looks like its indexed for 6sp. I even tried disassembling the derailleur thinking I can grind those teeth from the der but now I can not even put the darn thing back to working condition. This is the part where the loaded spring goes back into the dropout bolt.
thank you in advance for any tips...
sincerely,
-gas
Shimano has published an alternate cable routing that allows an older DA shifter to be used with a non-DA derailer. Unfortunately, there is no solution for running things the other way around, other than getting a compatible (i.e. older DA) shifter.
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Originally Posted by superunleaded
Hi Mr. Brown,
Is there a way to get a Dura Ace ax rear der into friction?
I tried to use a DA ax rear der for a 7 or 8 speed indexed shifters but the ax rear der looks like its indexed for 6sp. I even tried disassembling the derailleur thinking I can grind those teeth from the der but now I can not even put the darn thing back to working condition. This is the part where the loaded spring goes back into the dropout bolt.
Is there a way to get a Dura Ace ax rear der into friction?
I tried to use a DA ax rear der for a 7 or 8 speed indexed shifters but the ax rear der looks like its indexed for 6sp. I even tried disassembling the derailleur thinking I can grind those teeth from the der but now I can not even put the darn thing back to working condition. This is the part where the loaded spring goes back into the dropout bolt.
If you have a Dura-Ace AX derailer that's in decent condition, sell it on eBay, it is a museum piece, and belongs on a restoration project, not a "rider." Even a new $20 Tourney will work WAY better.
Sheldon "Derailers Are Cheap" Brown
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The original plan was to build the bike with full AX components but after testing the shifting with the rear der, I found out that the rear der has this serrated part that makes shifting SIS like. It has postive stops for 6 speed shifting which I find annoying that's why I wanted to go friction.
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#7
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Originally Posted by superunleaded
The original plan was to build the bike with full AX components but after testing the shifting with the rear der, I found out that the rear der has this serrated part that makes shifting SIS like. It has postive stops for 6 speed shifting which I find annoying that's why I wanted to go friction.
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Thanks...
I'll just throw the AX parts in a bin and wait for the next project that is suited for that kind of components. In the meantime, I decided to go to a full DA 7410 build.
Here is the project: https://www.bikefanclub.com/gallery/s...500&ppuser=121
-gas
Here is the project: https://www.bikefanclub.com/gallery/s...500&ppuser=121
-gas
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That's like throwing away money.
If you don't want the eBay hassle, please offer them on the Vintage forum. Someone would love to have them, I'm sure.
(Or did you mean bin as in storage, not as in trash? Maybe my vocabulary has become infected with Limey disease...)
If you don't want the eBay hassle, please offer them on the Vintage forum. Someone would love to have them, I'm sure.
(Or did you mean bin as in storage, not as in trash? Maybe my vocabulary has become infected with Limey disease...)
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Originally Posted by DMF
That's like throwing away money.
If you don't want the eBay hassle, please offer them on the Vintage forum. Someone would love to have them, I'm sure.
(Or did you mean bin as in storage, not as in trash? Maybe my vocabulary has become infected with Limey disease...)
If you don't want the eBay hassle, please offer them on the Vintage forum. Someone would love to have them, I'm sure.
(Or did you mean bin as in storage, not as in trash? Maybe my vocabulary has become infected with Limey disease...)
#11
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Sorry...
"I'll just throw the AX parts in a bin and wait for the next project that is suited for that kind of components."
When it comes to bike parts, nothing gets thrown away. They just wait... and wait, and wait for the next appropriate build. Appropriate for me anyway.
I got too many parts in boxes and bins that I have collected over the years. That and bikes hanging on the rafters
When it comes to bike parts, nothing gets thrown away. They just wait... and wait, and wait for the next appropriate build. Appropriate for me anyway.
I got too many parts in boxes and bins that I have collected over the years. That and bikes hanging on the rafters
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Sorry cohophysh, I didn't intend to crash your thread.
I'll just go back to the c&v.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/259478-current-inventory-how-fill-up-your-garage-bikes.html
I'll just go back to the c&v.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/259478-current-inventory-how-fill-up-your-garage-bikes.html
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Last edited by superunleaded; 01-29-07 at 05:48 PM.
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Just so the general principles get out there:
Rear deraillers are not indexed. Rather, they have cable-pull ratio (how far does the cage and pulley wheels move for a given amount of cable pulled by the shifter). If this amount of cable-pull lines up with the amount of cable-pull per click/increment of an indexed shifter and the spacing of the rear sprockets that you're using, then you're in business to use indexed shifting. All Shimano rear deraillers and rear shifters built since the advent of indexed shifting are compatible (same cable-pull ratio) except for pre-9-speed Dura Ace. So a 105 rear derailler that originally came with 6-speed down-tube shifters and 6-cog freewheel will work with 9-speed cassette sprockets and 9-speed STI shifters.
With friction shifting, you don't have these compatibility worries because there are no increments that you need to line up. Anything can be used with anything if you're running friction shifters, pretty much.
Rear deraillers are not indexed. Rather, they have cable-pull ratio (how far does the cage and pulley wheels move for a given amount of cable pulled by the shifter). If this amount of cable-pull lines up with the amount of cable-pull per click/increment of an indexed shifter and the spacing of the rear sprockets that you're using, then you're in business to use indexed shifting. All Shimano rear deraillers and rear shifters built since the advent of indexed shifting are compatible (same cable-pull ratio) except for pre-9-speed Dura Ace. So a 105 rear derailler that originally came with 6-speed down-tube shifters and 6-cog freewheel will work with 9-speed cassette sprockets and 9-speed STI shifters.
With friction shifting, you don't have these compatibility worries because there are no increments that you need to line up. Anything can be used with anything if you're running friction shifters, pretty much.
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I do agree...
But I ran on to this Dura Ace AX rear der and it is indexed. Shifter is friction but the der is indexed to 6 speed. So I'd say all rear derailleurs works with friction shifting exept for this model. I'm not sure how many different AX models came out but this particular derailleur I got is indexed. No matter how much I fine tune my friction shifting, the der guide will line up within the 6 indexed stops.
I only have 1 AX rear der so I can not compare how the other AX works.
Anybody out there with DA AX rear der care to chime in?
Do your der have those positive stops that makes friction shifting annoying?
I only have 1 AX rear der so I can not compare how the other AX works.
Anybody out there with DA AX rear der care to chime in?
Do your der have those positive stops that makes friction shifting annoying?
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#15
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Sorry cohophysh, I didn't intend to crash your thread.
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We cannot solve problems with the same level of consciousness that created them. A.E.
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By the way, indexing happens at the shifter side, except for this Dura Ace AX rear der.
So when you buy any XT stuff, it is indexed at the shifter and the deraileurs will work with either friction or indexed shifters.
So when you buy any XT stuff, it is indexed at the shifter and the deraileurs will work with either friction or indexed shifters.
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#17
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Originally Posted by timcupery
Just so the general principles get out there:
Rear deraillers are not indexed. Rather, they have cable-pull ratio (how far does the cage and pulley wheels move for a given amount of cable pulled by the shifter). If this amount of cable-pull lines up with the amount of cable-pull per click/increment of an indexed shifter and the spacing of the rear sprockets that you're using, then you're in business to use indexed shifting. All Shimano rear deraillers and rear shifters built since the advent of indexed shifting are compatible (same cable-pull ratio) except for pre-9-speed Dura Ace. So a 105 rear derailler that originally came with 6-speed down-tube shifters and 6-cog freewheel will work with 9-speed cassette sprockets and 9-speed STI shifters.
With friction shifting, you don't have these compatibility worries because there are no increments that you need to line up. Anything can be used with anything if you're running friction shifters, pretty much.
Rear deraillers are not indexed. Rather, they have cable-pull ratio (how far does the cage and pulley wheels move for a given amount of cable pulled by the shifter). If this amount of cable-pull lines up with the amount of cable-pull per click/increment of an indexed shifter and the spacing of the rear sprockets that you're using, then you're in business to use indexed shifting. All Shimano rear deraillers and rear shifters built since the advent of indexed shifting are compatible (same cable-pull ratio) except for pre-9-speed Dura Ace. So a 105 rear derailler that originally came with 6-speed down-tube shifters and 6-cog freewheel will work with 9-speed cassette sprockets and 9-speed STI shifters.
With friction shifting, you don't have these compatibility worries because there are no increments that you need to line up. Anything can be used with anything if you're running friction shifters, pretty much.
By the way, some will claim that the "6-speed" 105 derailer will not function properly with 9-speed equipment, supposedly due to the cage being too wide. Nonsense! I'm tempted to use my 6-speed 105 derailer with new 10-speed 105 equipment, just for laughs (and because, hey, why the heck not?). But then I come back to reality - even "cheap" 10-speed 105 is way outside of my budget!