another bareknuckle question
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: pa.
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
another bareknuckle question
Since we're on the topic of toe overlap, which I know the smaller size bareknuckles have serious issues with. Does anyone have overlap issues with the 56? I searched the forum and found only one answer to this question, and I'd like to hear responses from a few people. I'd be running meduium to large size clips and 165 cranks.
#2
dutret has a posse
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: washington dc
Posts: 3,155
Bikes: IRO Angus 53, Marinoni Special 54, LMNO Custom Road Bike, Guerciotti TT, Late 60s Bottechia Road, Univega Via Montega beater/polo/rain bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The pedals and clips will matter a lot. For example, a 53cm Angus is pretty close for overlap, but if you pick the right combo you won't have any. Maybe somebody will even know one that does work, or maybe it isn't even that close that you need to worry about it. Good luck, and if you find a combo that works, be sure to update us.
#3
joined the Team
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by snot69
Since we're on the topic of toe overlap, which I know the smaller size bareknuckles have serious issues with. Does anyone have overlap issues with the 56? I searched the forum and found only one answer to this question, and I'd like to hear responses from a few people. I'd be running meduium to large size clips and 165 cranks.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
My friend has a 54cm with 172.5 crank arms. I'm not sure what pedals and size cages[felt like medium] he has but he doesn't have any overlap.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Boston
Posts: 290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I have a 54 bareknuckle with mks pedals and Size L mks clips with 165 cranks and yes I have a fair amount of overlap. I actually have quite a bit
#6
cxmagazine dot com
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: WI
Posts: 8,269
Bikes: Titus road, Fort CX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
People - these are track bikes, meant for the track. They will have toe overlap because of the choices in geometry and fork rake. On the track, you rarely if ever need to corner like you do in the street. So the choice is obvious - get a frame with road-style geometry or spend money on a fork that might be more forgiving in the area of overlap.
Team Neal has it right - go with something that wil fall outside the track geometry range, like a road geometry-based bike. Most smaller frames will have toe overlap of some sort.
Team Neal has it right - go with something that wil fall outside the track geometry range, like a road geometry-based bike. Most smaller frames will have toe overlap of some sort.
#7
Coasting makes you grumpy
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,376
Bikes: Specialized Stumpjumper M2Comp; Habanero Ti-Team; Slingshot Road; 1962 converted Raliegh fixer aka: The Beast
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
<insert whiny voice> . . .but, but I want my 75 degree head angle with 30mm rake fork track frame to ride like butter and have no toe overlap when I make slow speed turns at the local hang spot. . . why won't these f-ing frame builders understand my pain? <sniff, sniff>
#8
Stinky McStinkface
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pa.
Posts: 943
Bikes: Clemente Custom(not built-up), TI Raleigh Record SS, VitaSprint Mixte SS, IRO S.E.(coming) Ibex Trophy Pro
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Can someone explain overlap and the reason it's needed or not needed?
#9
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: pa.
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Sorry
Originally Posted by [165]
People - these are track bikes, meant for the track. They will have toe overlap because of the choices in geometry and fork rake. On the track, you rarely if ever need to corner like you do in the street. So the choice is obvious - get a frame with road-style geometry or spend money on a fork that might be more forgiving in the area of overlap.
Team Neal has it right - go with something that wil fall outside the track geometry range, like a road geometry-based bike. Most smaller frames will have toe overlap of some sort.
Team Neal has it right - go with something that wil fall outside the track geometry range, like a road geometry-based bike. Most smaller frames will have toe overlap of some sort.
I'm well aware of this I just want to know how much overlap people who own 56cm bareknuckles on this forum tend to have to deal with. A simple question and I'm just looking for simple answers.
#11
Coasting makes you grumpy
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,376
Bikes: Specialized Stumpjumper M2Comp; Habanero Ti-Team; Slingshot Road; 1962 converted Raliegh fixer aka: The Beast
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by snot69
I'm well aware of this I just want to know how much overlap people who own 56cm bareknuckles on this forum tend to have to deal with. A simple question and I'm just looking for simple answers.
Things to factor:
-Crank length
-Type of pedal system you are using
-Position of cleat on shoe
-How big are your feet
-What size tire you plan to run
Unless you take the bike out for a ride, YOU won't know.
Generalization, the Barenuckle will have less toe overlap than a pure track bike with virtually no clearance between tire and downtube.
#12
n+1 bikes
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I ride a 56 BK and have very little toe overlap. I use clipless pedals and with 175 cranks. My toes touch my tire very little and it really isn't a problem at all.
#13
cxmagazine dot com
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: WI
Posts: 8,269
Bikes: Titus road, Fort CX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
there are no simple answers, that is the reality. The simple answer is get a road bike. Or get a custom fork with appropriate rake to avoid toe-verlap. Or get a frame "meant" for street riding - like the Surly, etc...
In all honesty, I have never seen someone eat asphalt due to toe-verlap - that does not mean it won't happen as I am sure it has already.
In all honesty, I have never seen someone eat asphalt due to toe-verlap - that does not mean it won't happen as I am sure it has already.
#14
Coasting makes you grumpy
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,376
Bikes: Specialized Stumpjumper M2Comp; Habanero Ti-Team; Slingshot Road; 1962 converted Raliegh fixer aka: The Beast
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
just did
BTW [165], what is verlap? Is it the one-eyed cousin to burlap?
BTW [165], what is verlap? Is it the one-eyed cousin to burlap?
#15
.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rocket City, No'ala
Posts: 12,763
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 5.2, 1985 Pinarello Treviso, 1990 Gardin Shred, 2006 Bianchi San Jose
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 28 Times
in
13 Posts
Originally Posted by exfreewheeler
Can someone explain overlap and the reason it's needed or not needed?
When your foot is in the 3 o'clock position, your toes will overlap the diameter of your front wheel. If you are making a sharp turn at low speed, your foot can hit the wheel. With a freewheel, you can leave your foot out of the way and coast through the turn but with a fixie you can't.
It is desirous of track bikes that their geometry has a short wheelbase with high-angled headtube and seattube. This produces the overlap. Road bikes and touring bikes even more so, have longer wheelbases for stability and comfort but even they can have some overlap, particularly on the smaller sized frames.
#16
Stinky McStinkface
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pa.
Posts: 943
Bikes: Clemente Custom(not built-up), TI Raleigh Record SS, VitaSprint Mixte SS, IRO S.E.(coming) Ibex Trophy Pro
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by bbattle
When your foot is in the 3 o'clock position, your toes will overlap the diameter of your front wheel. If you are making a sharp turn at low speed, your foot can hit the wheel. With a freewheel, you can leave your foot out of the way and coast through the turn but with a fixie you can't.
It is desirous of track bikes that their geometry has a short wheelbase with high-angled headtube and seattube. This produces the overlap. Road bikes and touring bikes even more so, have longer wheelbases for stability and comfort but even they can have some overlap, particularly on the smaller sized frames.
It is desirous of track bikes that their geometry has a short wheelbase with high-angled headtube and seattube. This produces the overlap. Road bikes and touring bikes even more so, have longer wheelbases for stability and comfort but even they can have some overlap, particularly on the smaller sized frames.
As a newbie in fixed gear, I want to know this.
I don't think I would have this problem being that my new frame(be here in a couple of days) is proportionate to my body.
But I want to know stuff like this.
Just like when I posted the chainline thread - explanations like this open the door to understanding the detailed explanations.
#17
cxmagazine dot com
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: WI
Posts: 8,269
Bikes: Titus road, Fort CX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by auk
just did
BTW [165], what is verlap? Is it the one-eyed cousin to burlap?
BTW [165], what is verlap? Is it the one-eyed cousin to burlap?
now a Northern Kentuckian like yourself auk, might say it like "to-everlap" - and that would be wrong.
"Toe-verlap" = toe overlap, in Reader's Digest form.
#18
Coasting makes you grumpy
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,376
Bikes: Specialized Stumpjumper M2Comp; Habanero Ti-Team; Slingshot Road; 1962 converted Raliegh fixer aka: The Beast
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Coffee is now on the keyboard.
#19
leading zero
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I rock a 52ck Bareknuckle with an Ultegra 165 road crank (save your hissing for the end, trackheads), cheapo cage pedals and large Soma toeclips. I have so much toe-verlap that my heels scrape on my front wheel's axle nuts.
#20
Geek Extraordinaire
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,769
Bikes: Bianchi Advantage Fixed Conversion; Specialized Stumpjumper FS Hardtail
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by auk
Generalization, the Barenuckle will have less toe overlap than a pure track bike with virtually no clearance between tire and downtube.
For the most part, toe overlap comes from a couple of factors. Track bikes have steep head tubes to make the bikes stiff and to handle the extra load the banked turns will put on the headset. In order to make the bikes stable at high speeds, the trail needs to be increased, which is accomplished by moving the hub closer to the frame.
__________________
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Sintesi Conversion Serotta Track
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Sintesi Conversion Serotta Track
#21
Senior Member
Why does the BK have a 73 degree seat tube on the larger sizes? That's roadie geometry, right? Funny that a Soma Rush is a more aggressive '75/75'. So, I take it other factors - such as the super-high bottom bracket - matter more?
#22
Senior Member
Originally Posted by schnee
Why does the BK have a 73 degree seat tube on the larger sizes? That's roadie geometry, right? Funny that a Soma Rush is a more aggressive '75/75'.
Move your seat forward ~1 cm and there is no difference.
#23
the goal
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Brixton, London
Posts: 457
Bikes: Bob Jackson track
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by schnee
Why does the BK have a 73 degree seat tube on the larger sizes?
The counter example is to look at road or touring bikes in small sizes - the ST is steeper than you would expect to get the short person's saddle a bit further forward.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: dallas
Posts: 273
Bikes: busted trek510, hotrock mt bike, iro angus
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
my road bike has overlap and my angus doesn't (clipless, but I have giant feet). what now 165!?
#25
cxmagazine dot com
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: WI
Posts: 8,269
Bikes: Titus road, Fort CX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Go custom
(and it really does not matter as much on a road bike since you have the ability to COAST through a turn to avoid overlap issues)
(and it really does not matter as much on a road bike since you have the ability to COAST through a turn to avoid overlap issues)