mascher

Can anyone tell me anything about this frame? It was believed to have a single owner, recently purchased at an estate sale.

Only strong IDs are the painted detail on the seat lug and E0 or EO inside a diamond on the bb shell. Chromed head lugs, chromed campy front and rear dropouts, campy cable guide, British bb, ISO headset, SR group, gold lined lugs that's not very well done, so maybe the original owner did this. The color's also a little unusual, sort of a metallic pale champagne green that's hard to capture in pics - there's much more gold/yellow in the color in person, and I'm a lousy photographer with a cheap camera

The seller received an email saying it may either have been an off the peg Gardin (my guess is if this is possible, it could also be a Cambio Rino, the marque of which he was the sole importer in Canada - or maybe it was his own marque?) or a custom frame built by Joe Gardin out of Toronto. Crank is stamped with a 3 in a circle dating it to 83, and the bb is NR since the cups are steel, so I'd wager it's a complete 83 group, based on the whole titanium axle breaking thing in the tour the year before that I read on campyonly. I suppose it could be a Marinoni, but Montreal is the capital of old Marinonis (man, it's a crime how many can be found turned into city beaters), and anything from them even into the 90s seems to have a chrome fork and chromed stays (even aluminum bikes! https://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FBeauchemin/).

Thanks in advance for your eagle eyes. This is the bike referred to in this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/289749-buying-wrong-vintage-bike.html

Whole bike



Seat Lug detail



Fork Crown and Lower Head Lug



Upper Head Lug



BB shell stamped E0

Gary Fountain

Nice bike. Lug lining is quite difficult as I have tried this on a number of bikes myself. I would agree with you that it was probably a DIY job - although many professional line jobs are noticably 'hand done' which adds to their charm.

My guess is that the frame was a locally built item (no engraving). The fork crown reminds me of bikes built with Reynolds tubing.

vpiuva

I've seen that seat lug/stay painting detail before. Don't know if it's common or a good identifying mark. If I run across it I'll let you know where.

rmikkelsen

Not sure about the bike. Is the stove a Hotpoint?

mascher

Heh, it's a forties or fifties Hardwick gas stove with cutout lugs and pantographing on all the components. My neighbour told me Jacques Anquetil used it in the 1961 tour, but that can't be confirmed.

old and new

that's not an English bike from the fifties. I'm not that dedicated tofigure out what it IS exactly. I can narrow it down to two choices.All too often, members here debate too much when fellow members volenteer informaton so I'll leave it at this:the bike is was not made in Europe;the rear stays,the fork crown,the non-descript bottom bracket stamping,not to mention the '80's paint.The lugs look as if the bike could be Italian,it's not Italian though.All bikes except Italian bikes have English b.bracket thread.

unworthy1

Uhhh....French...Swiss...?

jacksbike

It appears to me to be a Japanese manufactured frame from the 80's. No idea of the brand, but the seat cluster and the bb indicate Japanese to me.

mascher

I should have mentioned that there are no bottle braze-ons if it's not apparent from the photos - never seen that on an older bike myself. No rack fittings, but the wheelbase doesn't say touring or sport bike anyway. FD is a clamp on, shifters are braze on.

unworthy1

I'm not convinced it's Japanese...it has features like the chainstay bridge and (perhaps) forkcrown that are certainly Cinelli stock fittings, available to any builder in any locale. The seat cluster doesn't tell me anything definitive, but the lining on the seatstay caps is typical "British" (see any Holdsworth) but that just tells us who inspired the painter. Looks like a first-rate frame, could be Canadian or other North American. Check the base of the steerer for the "rifling" that says Columbus tubing. Just having the shifter bosses/top tube cable guides and no WB bosses is not unheard of for an early '80s frame...what's the brake bridge look like and is the BB cable guide stamped "Campy", or Shim-something? Is there any stamping on the steerer, and if you remove the crownrace what's it measure? 27.2 seatpost?

mascher

Fwiw, the seller believed it could be a British bike because he also bought a custom Chas Roberts (?) bike in the same auction, similar sizing, full C-Record group.

I'll check the base of the steerer next time I take the front end apart. I didn't remove the crown race, but the upper and lower races were marked 26.4x24F brev. Campagnolo. Seatpost is 27.2.

Here's some more pics (sorry for the quality, I'm not such a steady hand):

Cable Guide:


Brake Bridge (front):



Brake Bridge (back):



BB Shell (top rear):



Left Dropout:

unworthy1

The more I see, the less Japanese it could be to me (except perhaps a Lotus), too many Cinelli bits. You can check for the subtle "rifling" by just removing the front wheel and sticking a finger up the hole of the steerer...you can shine a light and look there too. There would be 5 ridges that are only 1mm high and spiral upward on the interior wall of the steering column, visible at the base. This should confirm if it's Columbus, but if not then only a faint stamping on exterior of the steerer *might* say "Reynolds 531" or something Japanese (Tange, Ishiwata). Given the 27.2 post I'd say it's unlikely from JP.

cyclotoine

A Marinoni or Gardin of that vintage would have an italian BB so that rules that out. I find that not many marinonis have chrome stays and forks. Infact, I have had 5 in my posession at one time or another and they only had the chrome exposed on the driveside chainstay. A gardin of that quality would have had pantographing I think. The fork crown and lug work are nothing like what marinoni is typical for, there bikes are systematic with serial number etc... it is VERY VERY nice though and I think the green brooks looks awesome on there. You scored big when you found that one.

unworthy1

Mark Bulgier, who knows far better than me, says that the lugs are possibly Nikko from Japan, and the BB shell might be Eisho, also Japanese. But the forkcrown is Bocama, French, and there are still Italian bits as well...so it's a UN product...he thinks it could be USA...still possible that it was made in JP afterall...Speaking for myself, now, I think this scattergun approach to sourcing parts is more like a US practice than Japanese...and it seems like the work of a custom builder/small shop. I'm cooking up the crow and humble pie dessert right now...

skinny

Looks like a Niko

unworthy1

Really? The only Nikos I've heard of were rebadged Centurions sold through the Bikecology shop in Santa Monica...got a picture of one?

old and new

unworhty.. didn't I SAY it wasn't French.AND French DON'T use Italian thread..OH Swiss SHEEEEER as if ...???...??? STOP reading MY posts, you ARE unworthy of submitting an answer it seems

moki

WHatever it is, it's a damn fine bike. Enjoy.