how much better are Phil than White Industries?
05-25-07, 03:23 PM
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how much better are Phil than White Industries?
Putting together a new set of street wheels for my fixie, and have seen both hubs get great reviews, but the Phil's only knock is that it's heavier because of all the stainless steel components, whereas WI uses more alloy.
Is Phil that much better than WI? Price is not an issue, just wanting to get the best quality without too much of a weight penalty. I'm not taking these wheels offroad either, just general commuting/errand running fun.
Is Phil that much better than WI? Price is not an issue, just wanting to get the best quality without too much of a weight penalty. I'm not taking these wheels offroad either, just general commuting/errand running fun.
05-25-07, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonFixed
They are no better and they are no worse. They are just different.
But.. are they 'different' in a better, or worse way?
05-25-07, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonFixed
They are no better and they are no worse. They are just different.
Originally Posted by red house
But.. are they 'different' in a better, or worse way?
Some men, you just can't reach.
05-25-07, 05:44 PM
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I see... so what you're saying is they are both so good that either will fulfill my needs more than adequately, but as to the absolute measure of which one is better, they each meet standards that may or may not be important to me, and because I won't likely be pushing my commuter to those extremes, I shouldn't bother with those differences for now. Most importantly, since weight appears to be my overriding concern (as quality is already sufficient), pick the lighter ones, ergo, WI.
thanks! exactly what I wanted to hear!
thanks! exactly what I wanted to hear!
05-25-07, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Adagio Corse
I see... so what you're saying is they are both so good that either will fulfill my needs more than adequately, but as to the absolute measure of which one is better, they each meet standards that may or may not be important to me, and because I won't likely be pushing my commuter to those extremes, I shouldn't bother with those differences for now. Most importantly, since weight appears to be my overriding concern (as quality is already sufficient), pick the lighter ones, ergo, WI.
thanks! exactly what I wanted to hear!
thanks! exactly what I wanted to hear!
05-25-07, 06:07 PM
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Sounds like you've got it about right. Realistically, the Phil's may have slightly better bearings. It is one of the things they are most well known for. However, the WI hubs are top notch, with a killer reputation. Both companies have excellent customer service. Both are tested and proven for off road conditions. Both will perform admirably for any sort of lighter duty use.
05-25-07, 06:18 PM
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My fixed gear bike uses Phil Wood hubs / My bike is made of only the 'best' parts and components / Therefore; Phil Wood are the 'best' and henceforth are the better of the two hubs.
Yes.. thanku, I am a rocket scientist.
Yes.. thanku, I am a rocket scientist.
05-25-07, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SSSasky
Sounds like you've got it about right. Realistically, the Phil's may have slightly better bearings. It is one of the things they are most well known for. However, the WI hubs are top notch, with a killer reputation. Both companies have excellent customer service. Both are tested and proven for off road conditions. Both will perform admirably for any sort of lighter duty use.
And a bearing supply warehouse will have bearings that are even better than phil bearings..
This point leads me to my opinion that all sealed cartridge bearing hubs are, more or less, the same after a high quality bearing upgrade.
05-25-07, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonFixed
ssh..Here's a little secret..you can put phil bearings in any cartridge bearing hub to get a "phil" hub. A new $10 set of bearings can make a $40 IRO hub into a "phil" hub...
And a bearing supply warehouse will have bearings that are even better than phil bearings..
This point leads me to my opinion that all sealed cartridge bearing hubs are, more or less, the same after a high quality bearing upgrade.
And a bearing supply warehouse will have bearings that are even better than phil bearings..
This point leads me to my opinion that all sealed cartridge bearing hubs are, more or less, the same after a high quality bearing upgrade.
05-25-07, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonFixed
ssh..Here's a little secret..you can put phil bearings in any cartridge bearing hub to get a "phil" hub. A new $10 set of bearings can make a $40 IRO hub into a "phil" hub...
And a bearing supply warehouse will have bearings that are even better than phil bearings..
This point leads me to my opinion that all sealed cartridge bearing hubs are, more or less, the same after a high quality bearing upgrade.
And a bearing supply warehouse will have bearings that are even better than phil bearings..
This point leads me to my opinion that all sealed cartridge bearing hubs are, more or less, the same after a high quality bearing upgrade.
But Phil bearings are not sealed cartridge bearings, - they are pressed in. Jeesh
, don't you know anything at all? 
-? ..Yeah, for real.
05-25-07, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by wildturkey
This is cool and so obvious too (if the Phil sealed cartridge bearings are the same size and will fit in my Surly hubs)... but I never thought of this, so thanks for the tip!
He's selling you lies.
05-25-07, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by red house
But Phil bearings are not sealed cartridge bearings, - they are pressed in. Jeesh , don't you know anything at all? -? ..Yeah, for real.
, don't you know anything at all? -? ..Yeah, for real.I can't really uinderstand you, but I think you are agreeing with me, so if in that case, then
If not, I am a dumbass.
05-25-07, 06:29 PM
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there is no such thing as "Phil" bearings, they are all just the same generic bearings
05-25-07, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by wildturkey
This is cool and so obvious too (if the Phil sealed cartridge bearings are the same size and will fit in my Surly hubs)... but I never thought of this, so thanks for the tip!
Ignore red house, he doesn't seem to have the faintest clue what he's talking about.
There will be a little number stamped on the rubber seals of the bearing, you need that. Or you can measure the bearing with a set of calipers.
Originally Posted by wildturkey
... Oh well, it was a good thought. Too good to be true, I guess.
Last edited by BostonFixed; 05-25-07 at 06:36 PM.
05-25-07, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BRANDUNE
there is no such thing as "Phil" bearings, they are all just the same generic bearings
05-25-07, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonFixed
???
I can't really uinderstand you, but I think you are agreeing with me, so if in that case, then
If not, I am a dumbass.
I can't really uinderstand you, but I think you are agreeing with me, so if in that case, then
If not, I am a dumbass.
What makes Phil Wood hubs money is not just that they have high calibre bearings - it is also because they are 'pressed' into the hub, not sealed into replacible cartridges. Yeah.
05-25-07, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by red house
What makes Phil Wood hubs money is not just that they have high calibre bearings - it is also because they are 'pressed' into the hub, not sealed into replacible cartridges. Yeah.
Do a little reading. (hint: sheldon brown!)
05-25-07, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonFixed
True, which is why I mentioned hitting up a local bearing warehouse. Phil just "specs" them, as this is the nomenclature that they use on their website.
There's a bearing warehouse in Allston. They only deal with industrial calibre bearings - but they can get ahold of aircraft grade precision bearings as well. They don't sell them from the wearhouse there, but this guy who works just gave me a free tour and gave me some free bearings too.
..I guess he wanted a break from his paper work.https://www.yellowpages.com/sp/morein...qcid=211297445
Last edited by red house; 05-25-07 at 06:43 PM.
05-25-07, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonFixed
You really have no idea what a cartridge bearing hub is, do you? (hint: phil's are cartridge bearing hubs)
Do a little reading. (hint: sheldon brown!)
Do a little reading. (hint: sheldon brown!)
No, I guess I have no idea what a cartridge bearing hub is.. But I have been to a bearing warehouse - with hundreds of millions of bearings of all different sizes and grades.. -have YOU been to a warehouse with millions of bearings for every concievable use? No, I didn't think so..
05-25-07, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by red house
There's a bearing warehouse in Allston. They only deal with industrial calibre bearings - but they can get a hold of aircraft precision bearings also. They don't sell them from the wearhouse there, but this guy who works just gave me a free tour and some free bearings too. ..I guess he wanted a break from his paper work.
..I guess he wanted a break from his paper work.
Originally Posted by red house
No, I guess I have no idea what a cartridge bearing hub is.. But I have been to a bearing warehouse - with hundreds of millions of bearings of all different sizes and grades.. -have YOU been to a warehouse with millions of bearings for every concievable use? No, I didn't think so..
05-25-07, 06:44 PM
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I looked at my Surly hub last week when adjusting it to get some play out, and saw that the bearings in are enclosed in a circular cartridge thing. They aren't loose and you can't really get to them to measure them. But I just looked on Surly's website and it said that all hubs "spin on high load, well sealed, adjustable cartridge bearings over standard sized axles (9x1mm front, 10x1mm rear)." So, I guess that means that when I would normally service a hub and grease the bearings, for this type of hub I'd actually just replace the sealed cartridge thing, pop a new one in, and done.
I don't know anything about Phil's except they look great, they have a wonderful reputation, and they are too expensive for me, but if they DO provide bearings in the same sized sealed cartridge, then it makes sense that I could plop that into my Surly hub and it would spin better (even if not identically to a Phil hub). Or find something similar at a bearing supply warehouse.
I am not really a mechanic (just a tinkerer who can do the basics), so I enjoy reading all your advice on this forum. Even when it totally conflicts, I can at least learn which questions to ask at the bike shop.
Thanks BostonFixed for the idea...
I don't know anything about Phil's except they look great, they have a wonderful reputation, and they are too expensive for me, but if they DO provide bearings in the same sized sealed cartridge, then it makes sense that I could plop that into my Surly hub and it would spin better (even if not identically to a Phil hub). Or find something similar at a bearing supply warehouse.
I am not really a mechanic (just a tinkerer who can do the basics), so I enjoy reading all your advice on this forum. Even when it totally conflicts, I can at least learn which questions to ask at the bike shop.
Thanks BostonFixed for the idea...