gr23932

Well, here is a bike I picked up yesterday. I was about to tell the seller to sell it to someone else, but my wife talked me into making the 45 minute ride to get it. It was on ebay and the seller claimed it to be a Colnago since it had Colnago decals on it. That was the sole reason I placed a bid for it. In fact, I was the only bidder so I lucked out. The pic she used on the listing sucked and one could not see any details but since it was such a low price I said F it. Well, after 2 weeks of not being able to get in touch with the seller she finally answered and thus I was able to pick it up. My initial plan was to just use the parts off of it on my true Colnago Mexico oro(which I've posted here). Well, when I showed up to pick it up and saw the bike I thought to my self that I was getting duped, or at least that was what the seller thought. The bike has only Colnago decals and no clovers and no campagnolo components. I was about to tell the lady no thanks..but I noticed something. It was the Dura ace crank, headset, and brake calipers on the bike. At this moment, I told myself to just pay her the money since the dura ace stuff was easily worth the 30 euros I was going to pay for the "Colnago". Upon further inspection I noticed the Zeus shifters and rear derailleur. It just seemed a pretty good deal even if it was'nt a Colnago. Underneath the bottom bracket says Cinelli SC. It also has some Ishiwata 022 decals which along with the dura ace stuff made/makes me think this is a Japanese bike. Here are some pics of it. I hope you guys can help me identify this bike. I have many other pics, so if they are needed to identify the bike let me know and I'll post them. Thanks!

unworthy1

yeah, it's *probably* something Japanese, what exactly I don't know...but if the Ishiwata decals can be believed (this bike has been way over-logo'd) at least it's a decent 022 frame and you got some nice components to strip off it. No Colnago, but bad at all for 30 euros!

Picchio Special

I know this sounds like a weird longshot, but I'm thinking that it could, in fact, be a Colnago. Sad to say, Colnago did perpetrate some pretty image-shattering bikes on the purchasing public at one time, especially in Europe. Seems to me that anyone who could fake the Colnago decals could just as easily fake some Columbus decals, too.
More likely, I think it was built to be a counterfeit Colnago, rather than starting life as something else and being re-decaled. There are quite a few of these out there, too.

gr23932

Well, the lady I bought it from said it was her fathers and that the bike is all original except for the handle bars which the old guy switched out be be able to ride it comfortably and the front dérailleur that went bad. Has anyone seen the same letters in the fork crown as this one?

joe v

Looks like a decent bike, at least. It never ceases to amaze me, however, how many fake Colnago's there are out there - here's a pretty pathetic example :

hhabca

What letters are they - I've been trying to decide if that's an 'f' or an 'l'. Could they be 'E' and 'C' ? 'g' and 'l'?

For the price I would have bought it too - the early Dura Ace would be very cool to have.

Picchio Special

A quick guess would be that they're a script "C" and "P" intended to stand for "Colnago" and "Professional."

Picchio Special

Wow. Maybe he or she was hoping someone would steal it if they slapped those decals on there - kind of the reverse of a rattle canned Masi.

gr23932

I'm guessing they're C and L or P. What about it having a Cinelli bottom bracket shell? Also, how good are the Zeus derailleurs? This one say Criterium.

gr23932

Do you really think so? This bike is really light and has some high quality components, but I've never seen any Colnago with these letters on the fork crown. If it is......damn! I too agree with you on it probably being build up initially as a fake, but either way, it seems like it was and is a decent bike.

joe v

Could be an interesting thread : post fake Colnago's for sale. A couple more (of course, you never know...) :

old and new

In any case it's not a bad deal. i don't know what the frame is, you'll figure it out, not here, not now though.
All speculation..at best,at worst .. guesses ..fantasy. the bigger question is the fonyness of some bikes there on e-bay, anywhere for that matter. Actually e-bay isn't so bad. Participants are compelled to be honest mostly
.. too paranoid really to blow their rep. Most errors are just that,..ERRORS. however look at the decal catagory
i've notions about that. A cat on e-bay often has those Guerciottis,you know ,the ones with the Fisher Price paint jobs, hell..I saw one up that was a DeRosa but it wasn't painted or decalled as such, it was painted and decalled Guercotti !! The seller even stated that it was mistakenly painted, kinda iffy, don't ya think ?

solveg

This Colnago has been on Craig's list 3 times, price dropping from 1200 to 800. The photos are just horrible. Can you tell anything from them?

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/bik/409481823.html

Picchio Special

Looks like it's still overpriced. Especially given the Gran Sport (or near variant) crankset. You can't really tell anything from those pics - did you try emailing with questions? Decals suggest early-mid 80's, but beyond that ...

ThinLine

A wanna be colnago from germany?...thats a german color flag on the downtube..yellow, black and red

joe v

Fork and stem look real enough for a start.

Eyeseeu

The letters on the fork are a classic C and L in Script or Kunstler Script font. I don't know what they stand for but if you found Cinelli on the BB that would be my first guess.

solveg

No, it's a little small for me, and I didn't post it in CL finds because it was so expensive earlier. I've just been keeping an eye on it.

Picchio Special

Maybe if you watch it long enough, it will grow taller as it cheapens.

lotek 

I was thinking it's Victory or Triumph, RD looks about right for those too.
and yah, It is overpriced by at least $300

Marty

unworthy1

It IS odd that something built of 022 would have a Cinelli BB shell, that's a good clue that the 022 decals may be "faked" too. Maybe it's Aelle or even SL if you're lucky. The script reminds me of the "GP" engraving on old Gipiemme seatposts, (that P looks like it could be an S or something else), so there's another clue that the engraving could be from Italy, all very weak clues for sure, but whaddyawant?
I like Zeus stuff, some people would never use anything but Campy however there are collectors who want it. The Criterium line bears the most esemblance to Campy NR, but many collectors seek the Zeus 2000 line, more rare and therefore desirable.

Eyeseeu

C and L

Here are the C and L in Kunstler Script.

Picchio Special

Fairly well convinced about the "C," but not about the "L," which I still think is more likely a "P." Neither of which has anything to do with the "Cinelli" on the bottom bracket, by the way, as that is on there simply because the builder chose to use a Cinelli BB. They were widely used in the 80's by a number of builders, as were other Cinelli parts such as lugs. I do find the Cinelli BB interesting, though, for the reasons unworthy1 pointed out.

Eyeseeu

I misunderstood, I though the Cinelli was stamped on the bottom of the BB housing, on the frame. As for a P, any script or cursive P has the loop swept up over the top, with any opening on the under side. For example:
P or

P

Picchio Special

No, you understood correctly. The "Cinelli" is indeed stamped on the bottom of the BB shell, on the frame. That is because the frame builder used a commonly available Cinelli cast bottom bracket shell. It still has zero to do with the identity of the frame, other than providing a minor clue. It certainly doesn't suggest that the frame was made by or for Cinelli, and has no connection with the fork crown.
I do see your point about the "P."