tradtimbo

A fella on craigs list is selling what he is calling a "1979 Raleigh Team Record". From the pics it looks like a 1979 Team Professional with a Brooks Saddle and Team Colors. He also says it has Reynolds 531 tubing. Did they tack the word "Record" to the Team in 1979? is it a subset of the Team? It looks like its in good condition and the person is asking for $700.

Any thoughts on anything? the price?

CV-6 

Get the serial number from him. That will at least ID the origin of the frame.

tradtimbo

Thanks. I just sent him an email trying to get as much info as posible. hopefully he responds. If it does turn out to be a Team Professional in excellent condition, what do you think of the $700 price. it seems high, but I'm not too sure of these things.

Tim

Picchio Special

It's a Team Record all right - says "Record" right on the top tube. It is NOT a Raleigh Team Pro bike - the lesser-level components should clue you in to that. The "Team Record" was an attempt to cash in on the cache of the geniune Team Pros and the success of the Ti Raleigh cycling team. A 531 Team Record is a fun, decent bike, and it does have that classic paint scheme, but it's a much lower-level product than a Team Pro, and worth nowhere near $700, IMO.
BTW, if it was indeed a geniune Team Pro in excellent condition, and made with Reynolds 753 instead of 531, and had the correct Super Record components, $700 would be a steal.

tolfan

I pick up a team record for free a while back. The brooks sadle was nice but the bike was nothing special and not reynolds 531. I think I got $200 for it on ebay.

Picchio Special

There were 531 Team Records made - possibly for the European market, but a few apparently made it over here.

vpiuva

Mechanic at my LBS here had a Team Record, painted in the team colors, full 531 DB frame, all Campy Super Record, and in VG condition. I scoured all the RetroRaleigh catalogues to try to find info on this bike and had no luck. After hanging in the shop for a few years he sold it on eBay for over $1000.

Picchio Special

The inability of folks to distinguish between the various red-black-and-yellow Raleigh frames/bikes makes for some pretty interesting eBay sales. It seems sometimes like anything with those colors gets snapped up, geniune Team Pro or not. Of course, full Super Record makes a big difference, but no "Team Record" is worth a grand, IMO (unless it was carefully parted out for a profit). They are probably pretty close to the Worksop 531 Team bikes quality-wise, which makes them fun to own and ride - but not for serious money. And definitely not the "real deal." As I say, probably made for the European market, so no surprise it would elude the materials on RetroReleigh.

tradtimbo

Thanks! interesting responses! It sounds like this bike is at least worth a look. Sheldon has a 1978 catalog, but the Team Record isn't in there. I'll let you know what happens.

tradtimbo

I've found out that the bike has Suntour components. He also confirmed the 531. Here are some pics. the serial number is WB90013 0. Mr. Brown says that late 70's Raleighs with the W were typically reserved for the High-end bikes with 531 tubing and above. I'd love to know what some of you would pay for this bike.

Picchio Special

"High end" is kind of a relative term. Not sure it applies here - certainly not in terms of the components, which don't add any value. More like maybe "mid-level." Nicer Team Records are equivalent to a Raleigh Pro, but than Pros have much better components. Less nice ones are more like a Competition in terms of build, lugwork, etc. The really "high end" Raleighs have serial numbers that begin with "SB." With those components, I wouldn't pay more than about $350-400 or so.

CV-6 

This is what the ad reads:
Vintage Raleigh Team Record 1979;58 cm Reynolds butted 531 frame and fork; Team Colors (red, yellow, black; original paint in fair condition); Normandy competition hubs with Mavic tubular rims; Raleigh cotterless crank set; Suntour changers; Weinmann side-pull brakes; original Brooks Professional riveted leather saddle in good condition.

The only Suntour mentioned is the changers and who knows what level those are. IMO, the only thing this bike has going for it is the 531 frame and the Brooks Pro saddle. I would hesitate to spend even $250 knowing I would be replacing the components. But that is me and I tend to be eccentric when it comes to my bikes. It is no where near worth the asking price. I doubt it sold for that much new. Anyone know?

Picchio Special

Lynn,

I pretty much agree with your assessment - my estimate was on the high side based on that paint scheme and the fact that it's 531. Some of those frames were apparently pretty nice; some not so. I can't tell much about the lugwork from the photos. I don't know the as-new price, but I do believe most of the Team Records were originally sold as frame-only.

tradtimbo

I took a poke to see if he was budging on the price. Here is part of his response:

I was also puzzled by the 'Record' model name but with Reynolds frame. In looking at pictured models, the "Team" designation seemed to be the closest match in color and material. The research that I've done suggests that the price I listed is pretty much in line with the market given the frame, all original components (except for the tubular tires - the roads in Beverly suck), the original Brooks saddle, etc.

I'm going to send him a link to this post and maybe he'll start to realize what it is he really has.

Tim

atmos

I worked in a bike shop the year the Team Record came out. It was really a Raleigh Record, the cheapest 10-speed sold by Raleigh, with the Team Pro colors. I think they sold the Team Record for only a year or two. Made the Team Pro look so cheap. If this bike on eBay is really 531 tubing, then it's definitely not a Record.

cudak888 

That response sounds more as if he knows the difference between the Record and the Team - in other words, it sounds as if he's trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes.

-Kurt

jet sanchEz

Yup, he knows what it is and he hopes to sell it to someone who doesn't; I'd walk away from this one.

atmos

I should add that the price for the Team Record (same as all Records) was around $125-150 in 1979. I believe we sold the record for $109 in 1974 and then the price went up a bit.

tradtimbo

Read the whole thread. Their were Team Records Made with 531. Just not all of them.

cudak888 

Just saw those small photos you posted. I see what appears to be a nutted Weinmann 605 brake at the back, "Raleigh" badged SR crankset, tube-style (not a micro-adjust) seatpost, and a rear dropout that cannot be identified as being forged or stamped. Oh, and 531 decals that are in surprisingly good shape.

Genuine? I doubt it. The only 531 Records were for U.K. production. This ain't it.

But then again - it's your $250. If you're determined to have this bike - whether the information you solicited from this forum conflicts with your mindset of what it is or not - by all means, go ahead.

-Kurt

VintageR

Get real, guys!

This is a full Reynolds 531db frame. Nothing on this frame makes it worse than other full 531db frames.

It's been made 1979 in Worksop (look at the ser.no.!), the ex-Carlton high-quality-tubing factory. Those people knew what they were doing, e.g. these workers made the *highly* regarded Raleigh Professional frames too.

No, not only for GB, those frames were available on the european continent as well. Most of the frames had a big Record decal on the downtube, replacing the Raleigh decal.
These frames have long Campagnolo dropouts with eyelets, so should this one.

Such a frame - equipped with good tubular wheels - rides like a dream, peelieve me. Done that.

This particular one is equipped with suntour stuff - the best shifting equipment at the time; a Brooks Pro - no further comment needed; Weinmann what seems to be 605 brakes, the best brakes *I* have ever used on a vintage bike (that one special pair were even a far cry ahead of Mafacs in terms of stopping power) - no comparison to the ridiculously ineffective stock Camp. stuff.

Most of this thread sounds to me like the dreaded "italian snobbery", just with a british accent.

All in all it should be a *very* nice riding bike with a pretty well built and nicely painted frame (just no TEAM Pro) and pretty good components that just have next-to-none collectors cache.

It's worth as much as you would spend on any other high-level 531db bike with superbely functioning parts.
Just don't expect to gain money by acquiring it for it's collectors value.

Picchio Special

Wow. A statement that lumps together every frame ever built with 531 - lugwork, brazing quality, alignment, and finishing aside. To "get real": Some Worksop frames are very good; some are pretty poor. But I guess one person's attempt to make important distinctions is another person's "snobbery."
Having said that, if it's decent build quality, with that paint scheme, I would pay the $350-400 I stated earlier. So if you're reacting to the idea that the bike isn't worth $250 if genuinely built of 531, that I understand.
And yeah, even as a big Suntour fan I'd pay more if it was all Nuovo or Super Record, and not because of the resale value, either. Sorry if that disturbs you.

tradtimbo

Thanks Vintage. I'm going to take a look at it tonight. I'll be looking for those dropouts. I'll judge for myself what we have here.

tradtimbo

Visit report:
The bike had the compy rear dropouts, 531db frame and fork. very clean, paint is in very good condition. The Brooks saddle is in excellent condition. one owner. All the Suntour parts were in very good working order. I also double checked the serial number. The gentleman has taken very good care of his ride over all. He believes that the his local shop built up the bike from the frame.

The bike is also a great size for me. I know you guys are saying this isn't a collectible, but its diffucult to believe if they only made a handful (relatively speaking of course).

I offered him $350, and we settled on $400. I'm picking her up next week. After I give her a polish, repack all the bearings, and put some better pedals on her, I'll post some better pics!!!

thanks for everyone's help!

Tim

CV-6 

I think you did good.