Mystery French Top Tier bike
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Mystery French Top Tier bike
This is the "not a Raleigh Raleigh Professional" from ebay.
This bike has an almost full campy record group, including french Campy record seat post and bottom bracket. Campy bar end shifters, and cinelli stem and bars. Brakes are Mafac. Rims are Fiamme tubulars. I know I got a deal on this bike, I just would like to know what it might be. it's in great shape except for some crack job repaint. This bike resided on the wall of a local bike shop in Sonoma CA for a long time, it was donated to the shop by an old guy who received it from a friend of a friend who was a "big time bike racer" It sat on the wall of the shop for 10-15 years. the shop closed a few years back and the bike was moved to a storage unit. The owner always thought it was a Raliegh Professional. It was mis listed on ebay and I being the local cool dude picked it up when the guy who won backed out. The brake cable hanger broke off the back. the bike is amazingly light. I'm pretty sure it's full DB 531. no serial numbers that I can find. Any Idea's?
This bike has an almost full campy record group, including french Campy record seat post and bottom bracket. Campy bar end shifters, and cinelli stem and bars. Brakes are Mafac. Rims are Fiamme tubulars. I know I got a deal on this bike, I just would like to know what it might be. it's in great shape except for some crack job repaint. This bike resided on the wall of a local bike shop in Sonoma CA for a long time, it was donated to the shop by an old guy who received it from a friend of a friend who was a "big time bike racer" It sat on the wall of the shop for 10-15 years. the shop closed a few years back and the bike was moved to a storage unit. The owner always thought it was a Raliegh Professional. It was mis listed on ebay and I being the local cool dude picked it up when the guy who won backed out. The brake cable hanger broke off the back. the bike is amazingly light. I'm pretty sure it's full DB 531. no serial numbers that I can find. Any Idea's?
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
#4
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,583
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1443 Post(s)
Liked 1,062 Times
in
787 Posts
Gitane, Tour de France, or rather the Campy-equipt Pro model the Super Corsa (basically the same 531 frame)...nice bike!
here's a link:
https://www.gitaneusa.com/models_2.asp
here's a link:
https://www.gitaneusa.com/models_2.asp
Last edited by unworthy1; 01-31-08 at 12:10 AM.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Gitane, Tour de France, or rather the Campy-equipt Pro model the Super Corsa (basically the same 531 frame)...nice bike!
here's a link:
https://www.gitaneusa.com/models_2.asp
here's a link:
https://www.gitaneusa.com/models_2.asp
Last edited by caterham; 01-31-08 at 06:31 AM.
#6
If I own it, I ride it
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,580
Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 663 Times
in
312 Posts
The seat stay caps and the way the brake bridge is done are indicators of a Carre built frame, probably LeJeune. Is there anything engraved on the seat stay caps?
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
apparently they don't exclusively indicate such- both the flat seatstay cap and the brake bridge features shown in the pics are as was done on the andre bertin c35 and c37 of the 70's. I sold bertins myself and my wife worked for the us bertin importer-fwiw, there was no engraving on the bertin's flat seatstay caps.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,829 Times
in
1,995 Posts
Lynn, you have read Norris too much, a number of French bikes have those types of caps.... C. Dardenne. C.N.C. to name just two. I doubt its a C.N.C.
Nervex fork crown, with some filing...and chrome, Bertin also normally did not use an overlay cap on its bikes...sold many in the mid 70's so I do not dismiss but don't think Bertin.
could use some more strategic images like the sides of the stay/dropout joint. side view of seat stay caps, some better views of the BB shell above and below...
Nervex fork crown, with some filing...and chrome, Bertin also normally did not use an overlay cap on its bikes...sold many in the mid 70's so I do not dismiss but don't think Bertin.
could use some more strategic images like the sides of the stay/dropout joint. side view of seat stay caps, some better views of the BB shell above and below...
#9
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Compare with my Nancia, not because of the color , but the seat stay caps, fork crown, and rear brake bridge is the same like yours. It is made of Super Vitus 971 tubing. Mine has Bocama lugs with cut-outs, that's different.
Maybe yours has Vitus tubes too.
Maybe yours has Vitus tubes too.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Nervex fork crown, with some filing...and chrome, Bertin also normally did not use an overlay cap on its bikes...sold many in the mid 70's so I do not dismiss but don't think Bertin.
could use some more strategic images like the sides of the stay/dropout joint. side view of seat stay caps, some better views of the BB shell above and below...
could use some more strategic images like the sides of the stay/dropout joint. side view of seat stay caps, some better views of the BB shell above and below...
durifort and vitus bertins used their more common folded and crimped stay cap treatment whilst the full reynolds models had the overlay flat cap.
i suggested c35 specifically because it had plain lugs( as opposed to window cutouts on c37) and straight tubular brake bridge with window cutouts for the reinforcements(c37 had a double taper bridge)
i agree that more detailed pics would be helpful to ascertain if it might possibly be of bertin origin. the upper end bertins used a *relatively* unusual scalloped stay to rear dropout termination as seen on my wife's 81 c70 below-
Last edited by caterham; 01-31-08 at 06:46 PM. Reason: better pic
#11
If I own it, I ride it
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,580
Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 663 Times
in
312 Posts
Originally Posted by caterham
i agree that more detailed pics would be helpful to ascertain if it might possibly be of bertin origin. the upper end bertins used a *relatively* unusual scalloped stay to rear dropout termination as seen on my wife's 81 c70 below-
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
your implication would make for an unusual business model as bertin produced framesets for other companies such as kitchening in the uk and hallet & paris sport in the us. the only outsourced bertins that i am aware of were the 80's bador/vitus aluminum bikes and the entry model tandem(gitane?). the top line tandem was their own.
#13
Seńor Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,923
Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1491 Post(s)
Liked 1,090 Times
in
638 Posts
Can you verify the seatpost size, and the markings on the BB cup? That will help confirm tube type and BB threading.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
In search of what to search for.
#14
If I own it, I ride it
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,580
Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 663 Times
in
312 Posts
your implication would make for an unusual business model as bertin produced framesets for other companies such as kitchening in the uk and hallet & paris sport in the us. the only outsourced bertins that i am aware of were the 80's bador/vitus aluminum bikes and the entry model tandem(gitane?). the top line tandem was their own.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,829 Times
in
1,995 Posts
your implication would make for an unusual business model as bertin produced framesets for other companies such as kitchening in the uk and hallet & paris sport in the us. the only outsourced bertins that i am aware of were the 80's bador/vitus aluminum bikes and the entry model tandem(gitane?). the top line tandem was their own.
As Bertin shifted their business model to that of an importer and distributor, (master distributor to France for Shimano for quite a while) they contracted building of many frames of all levels, and did assembly.
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
It is french threaded, it does have a seat post size that was identified in an old sutherlands manual as being from a french bike with high end DB tubing. I'll have exact numbers later
#18
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,583
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1443 Post(s)
Liked 1,062 Times
in
787 Posts
I sure am NOT the French expert that these fellows are, but I saw several features, including the rear cable brace that's broken off, that looked exactly like a Gitane I once owned, circa 1972 vintage. It had the "leaf" seat stay caps and similar lugs...but the fork crown *may* have been slightly different...wish I had taken pics of it, it's long gone. There's enough variation in Gitane details to make me stand by my original call, but not with conviction . You could send pics (include some sharper close-ups) to Mr. Andranian at gitaneusa.com and see what he thinks.
#19
If I own it, I ride it
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,580
Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 663 Times
in
312 Posts
Lynn, does this not look like your super corsa? Last night that was the way I was leaning. 1970 Super Corsa.
It is french threaded, it does have a seat post size that was identified in an old sutherlands manual as being from a french bike with high end DB tubing. I'll have exact numbers later
It is french threaded, it does have a seat post size that was identified in an old sutherlands manual as being from a french bike with high end DB tubing. I'll have exact numbers later
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,768
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
The seat cap plate, brake bridge reinforcement, Nervex crown and simple lugs says LeJeune to me too, certainly not Gitane.
But I ain't no French expert! Looks like a good bike though.
But I ain't no French expert! Looks like a good bike though.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,392
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 27 Times
in
25 Posts
A couple of Gitane TdF shots:
The fork crown are identical, but I'm not so sure about the seat stay caps. Mine does not have the rear brake cable stop, but many of them do and it would leave marks like the ones in the picture if it broke off. It wouldn't have to be a Super Corsa to have Campy dropouts. Some TdF's had them. The bolt-on stop on the chainstay definitely looks Gitane, but the non-Bocama lugs don't. I don't know what it is, but it's got to be French and it's definitely not a Peugeot.
The fork crown are identical, but I'm not so sure about the seat stay caps. Mine does not have the rear brake cable stop, but many of them do and it would leave marks like the ones in the picture if it broke off. It wouldn't have to be a Super Corsa to have Campy dropouts. Some TdF's had them. The bolt-on stop on the chainstay definitely looks Gitane, but the non-Bocama lugs don't. I don't know what it is, but it's got to be French and it's definitely not a Peugeot.
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I will take some more shots when I get a chance. it's storming like crazy here and the light sucks. Lynn, does your super corsa have a serial number? where is it? I can't find a serial number to save my life.
I think it's this bike almost exactly. except for the cinelli stuff and the fiamme rims but with Gitane it seems like you get what they got regardless of what the catalog says. My rear D is marked 1970
https://www.gitaneusa.com/images/catalog/1970_pg6.jpg
https://www.gitaneusa.com/images/catalog/1970_pg11.jpg
I think it's this bike almost exactly. except for the cinelli stuff and the fiamme rims but with Gitane it seems like you get what they got regardless of what the catalog says. My rear D is marked 1970
https://www.gitaneusa.com/images/catalog/1970_pg6.jpg
https://www.gitaneusa.com/images/catalog/1970_pg11.jpg
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
#24
Senior Member
Thread Starter
A couple of Gitane TdF shots:
The fork crown are identical, but I'm not so sure about the seat stay caps. Mine does not have the rear brake cable stop, but many of them do and it would leave marks like the ones in the picture if it broke off. It wouldn't have to be a Super Corsa to have Campy dropouts. Some TdF's had them. The bolt-on stop on the chainstay definitely looks Gitane, but the non-Bocama lugs don't. I don't know what it is, but it's got to be French and it's definitely not a Peugeot.
The fork crown are identical, but I'm not so sure about the seat stay caps. Mine does not have the rear brake cable stop, but many of them do and it would leave marks like the ones in the picture if it broke off. It wouldn't have to be a Super Corsa to have Campy dropouts. Some TdF's had them. The bolt-on stop on the chainstay definitely looks Gitane, but the non-Bocama lugs don't. I don't know what it is, but it's got to be French and it's definitely not a Peugeot.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,829 Times
in
1,995 Posts
repechage,
durifort and vitus bertins used their more common folded and crimped stay cap treatment whilst the full reynolds models had the overlay flat cap.
i suggested c35 specifically because it had plain lugs( as opposed to window cutouts on c37) and straight tubular brake bridge with window cutouts for the reinforcements(c37 had a double taper bridge)
i agree that more detailed pics would be helpful to ascertain if it might possibly be of bertin origin. the upper end bertins used a *relatively* unusual scalloped stay to rear dropout termination as seen on my wife's 81 c70 below-
durifort and vitus bertins used their more common folded and crimped stay cap treatment whilst the full reynolds models had the overlay flat cap.
i suggested c35 specifically because it had plain lugs( as opposed to window cutouts on c37) and straight tubular brake bridge with window cutouts for the reinforcements(c37 had a double taper bridge)
i agree that more detailed pics would be helpful to ascertain if it might possibly be of bertin origin. the upper end bertins used a *relatively* unusual scalloped stay to rear dropout termination as seen on my wife's 81 c70 below-
By 1975 the majority of the bikes that arrived were detailed differently. simpler, no chrome, Prugnaut lugs.
The fork on this yellow bike looks Gitane, I agree, but the stay caps are a bit different than the majority I have seen.