ezoons

RE: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...n_court_case08
Are they (riders) as guilty as I think they are? Or is there really something in what they're trying to prove?

bdcheung

Hammer makes a good point. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of athletes (not just cyclists) taking Endurolytes. While the entire population is not subject to drug testing, I'm sure a significant segment of their users do get tested.

Why, then, do only three report positives?

or

Have there been more that tested positive, and only these three link it to endurolytes?

At any rate, what's really on trial here (IMO) is whether Hammer is honest in their product labeling.

ericm979

I read it not as Hammer being accused of knowingly putting banned substances in Endurolytes, but Hammer (or their suppliers) having sloppy manufacturing processes that allow accidental inclusion of some amount of banned substances. Given how often inappropriate substances appear in other things (i.e. melamine in cat food), it's not unlikely to happen. Especially since the drug tests can find very small amounts, nutritional supplements for other sports (i.e. weightlifting) can contain things that are banned for cycling, and like most other things, supplements and their components are made in facilities that make a lot of similar products for other markets.

I really like Hammer products and I hope this doesn't cause any problem for them.

DiabloScott

A podcast interview with the lawyer involved and some interesting specifics

https://www.competitorradio.com/details.php?show=209

CastIron

It's in the <gasp> Tri forum.

prendrefeu

So far, I like their shorts (bib or not) the most. If they cut all their nutritional products off, and only keep the clothing line, I won't even blink.

R900

Sounds like they (riders) are looking for someone to blame.

carpediemracing 

It is sort of iffy, isn't it?

On the "the riders are right" side, what if Hammer's production line does process some of the illegal stuff and some of that stuff got mixed into the Hammer stuff.

Although many racers use Hammer, who do you know that got tested ever? I know of none, and one of them got 3rd at the Elite National Road Race one year. Another probably got tested (second tier pro in Europe for 6-7 years) but he's never mentioned a drug test.

If Hammer knows about the potential mix up, then they may not elect to get that "drug free" label. Or that "drug free" label is like a Better Business Bureau label - you just pay money for it. BBB in CT is a joke, it's almost as if you stay away from the BBB approved companies because you know they just pay to get that seal on their doorway.

On the "Hammer is right" side, if they did have a lot of cross contamination, the chances are high that, even with very few athletes tested, there should be more positives. Three is a lot though.

Also, ultimately, the athlete is responsible for any and all positives, even though it may have been inadvertent. This avoids the "my herbalist gave me some Chinese herbs... how was I supposed to know it consisted of testosterone, HGH, and amphetamines? I just know I recovered better and went faster... and the label was in Chinese" defense.

Racers are told not to take anything except sponsored or approved items because you just can't trust a supplement. If they took something their team gave them, that's one thing. But buying something at a GNC or a bike shop, that doesn't cut it, you just can't do that anymore.

I have no idea who is right but hopefully this whole thing prevents other racers from making that ill fated trip to GNC or where ever to pick up some stuff to help them recover.

cdr

Treefox

As I noted in the Tri forum thread, many of Hammer's competitors have 'guaranteed drug free' on their packaging, but Hammer does not - even when they're so careful to mention stuff is diabetic-safe and kosher.

Several people have made fun of my Hammer socks around here (hey! They were dead cheap and they're fairly nice). So now I only wear them when I've got overshoes on.