TVbuster

Hi everyone, I was wondering if some of you may be able to help me lose some weight. I have heard that if you want to see your abs, you cannot have a lot of fat...well I think that is my case. I am a 16 year old male and I weigh around 136 at around 5'10". I eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich every day for lunch, 2 oreos, a small gatorade, an apple, and some carrots. I also have crackers and usually a bag of chips but I gave up chips this month. I eat a lot of pizza and pasta for dinner and for breakfast usually some cheerios with a glass of orange juice. I ride my bike a lot, it's not always riding really hard and fast but I do ride a lot. I run maybe a mile a week. Lately I have been going to the gym about 3 times a week doing all upper body lifting. I was hoping to lose around 10-15 pounds (or until I can see my abs). I hope that someone out there can tell me what I need to do, I am willing to try.

Thanks for your help ahead of time, TVbuster.

jacob

you cannot have a lot of fat...well I think that is my case.

Be specific.
You (specifically)have a lot of fat, or you cannot have a lot of fat?

Jacob

TVbuster

Well my mid-section has a layer of fat along with my chest, back, and some on my arms. I know that you cannot spot reduce but I was wondering if anyone has some diet ideas or exercise ideas for me. I'm hoping to get rid of my "flab" by May.

Turbonium

get rid of oreos, replace it with something else healthier. urg other than that, if your school is near your home ~ 20 km, try biking to school so that will push you to bike everyday. keep it up though, it will take time.

deliriou5

geez, i dunno how you can lose more weight w/out becoming anorexic... i suggest just do lots of ab exercises, and don't worry to much about the flab.

Guest

I think you're headed in the right direction.

Without going into a lot of detail because I don't know a lot about you, I'm thinking that 5'10" and 136 is pretty freakin' skinny as it is. If you try to lose 10- 15 more pounds, you may just disappear! Seriously though, before embarking on some diet, I'd make an appointment to see your doctor so they can advise you on proper eating and body weight so that you aren't aiming for a goal that is unhealthy and unrealistic.

Having said that, you want to keep in mind that as kids hit puberty, the guys will get a big surge in testosterone production and the muscle mass will increase. It does help to go to the gym, but I'd suggest throwing in weights for the lower body too. First of all, you want symmetry with your body, and with an overdeveloped upper body and an underdeveloped lower body, it could look a bit off. So concentrate on going to the gym 3 times a week, but doing full body rather than just upper body exercises. Your cardio activities can be like 5 days a week for 45- 60 minutes.

With your eating, concentrate on eating more complex carbohydrate foods and more food with fiber, plus drinking water- if you can get to drinking about 2 2-liters of water per day, you'll be in good shape. Eat as much fruit and veggies as possible, and do make sure you are getting at least a multivitamin there so you can be sure that you're not depriving yourself of the vitamins that are necessary for you while you're in your adolescent years.

My main worries for you is that you may not be eating enough, which could mess you up with bone and muscle development in your late teen and early adulthood years. You're in a critical stage of development, and if you take the time to do it right, you really can be in top form when the time comes that you decide you want to race, or even if you just want to have a certain predisposition for a body type (fatter or fitter) when you get to adulthood and the number of fat cells do not increase, but the fat cells that are there can get bigger or smaller.

Right now, I wouldn't worry about the hard abs- if you take care of yourself and let the changes come naturally and work on being fit so that when the changes come, you'll be in optimal shape, then I think you'll be that much closer to getting those hard abs you want.

Koffee

P.S. I'm glad to see you know better than to "spot reduce". Good job!

RWTD

As others have noted it doesn't sound like your long range goal should be to lose weight per say but rather losing fat while adding muscle and taking advantage of your natural youthful growth spurt.So your weight would increase over time while you become more lean and muscular.With the exercise you seem generally on the right track do be careful going too heavy with weights at your age as it could actually stunt your growth.
What jumps out to me on diet is too many refined and sugary carbs and not enough protein,vegies and healthy fats.Good to see you have busted the tv and chips now I would work on some of the other sugary carbs and adding into each meal foremost protein to facilitate muscular growth and whole complex carbs,vegies and healthy fats for energy and overall health.
More short term to lose fat you need to structure a slight calorie deficit to your activity level while to add muscle and maximize growth you need a slight calorie surplus.So you could go on phases where you stress one or the other of these goals but like I alluded to earlier I generally think longer term you should stress the growth with perhaps occassional phases where you focus on losing the fat.

Croak

At 16, one shouldn't be going on a diet. Especially at that body weight.

Eat a good amount, do a lot of cardio, do a lot of weights.

Basically, this is prime time to take advantage of your hormones. During puberty is when you set an equilibrium in your body that is difficult to budge from for the rest of you life.

Lot's of good low glycemic index carbs, heaps of good quality protein and a good amount of essential fatty acids (a lot of omega 3) and a good ration of monounsaturatedolyunsaturated:saturated fats.

If you don't know what any of this means, take some time, go down to the library and read up on it. A little knowledge at your age will take you leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the population.

RWTD

Yea I kind of find it hard to believe someone 5'10" 136lbs.needs to diet or has an appreciable amount of fat.In fact sometimes skinny ectomorph types if the eat too little depleting their muscles will tend to actually look kind of flabby and less toned than if they eat more making their muscles fuller.I say eat big,exercise big and get big.

Croak

Agreed completely.

More muscle, more definition and in a few years the flabby look will leave you behind.

It's kind of got to do with genetics and muscle maturity.

Pat

Well, I know a guy who competed at the national level as a body builder. He said that the fat on the tummy was always the last to go. Also in order to get to that low of a percent body fat, you have to exercise and eat a very well thought out diet. It isn't easy. It isn't even very sane.

Also in order to show well defined abs, you need to develop your abs. Apparantly, isolating the various abdominal muscles is pretty difficult and takes the proper technique. Situps or simple crunches just isn't going to do it.

Also as Koffee pointed out, at 16, you have probably have some physical maturation to undergo and messing around with extreme measures is not a good idea when you have a growing body. It is more prudent to wait a few years when the effects of inadvertant abuse will be much less. Of course, I recall at 16 a "few years" is like saying "never" or "an eternity".

Ebbtide

Dude, you need to gain weight!

Eat more and start lifting weights and doing sit-ups.

As pointed out, you are young and still growing. Feed your body what it needs so you get big and strong. Weight training (building) results happen easily at your age, go and talk with one of your phs.ed teachers or football coach (gymnastic coach if your school has one, as they tend to focus on over-all conditioning), they would love to help you.

Hope this helps,

ehenz

jacob

to add to what the others said, but not to subtract, find good sources of food - however at your age a certain diet doesn't seem appropriate rather than to stay away from the sugars, the additives
If you have good food, then you can try to engage in other activities and make things easier on yourself

Jacob

TVbuster

Thanks to everyone for their help. So in a nutshell you guys think I should keep on eating what I am eating along with some more proteins? My mom has some health products made by "Shaklee" I am not sure if anyone has heard of them but do you suggest having a protein drink every morning? I take vitamins every day: vitamins E, C, zinc and some others. I know that I sound skinny but trust me I am not. This may sound strange to some but if I move my "flab" a bit I can see my abs...I have been doing situps, leg raises, and some other abdominal exercises so I may have strong abs underneath my flab, that is what I would like to see...my abs. Do you suggest eating normal amounts of food and do high amounts of cardio (running and biking...maybe uphill)?

Thanks, TVbuster.

p.s. croak I am not sure what all of that means, but I will look into it

RWTD

No I think you probably need to clean up your diet considerably in fact so to speak restructure it if you want the best chance of visible abs while continuing to grow.Croak is probably better qualified to give you a detailed training or diet plan as I tend to train and eat more instinctively relying more on body cues that take practice in understanding rather than counting calories or following set training programs.
But speaking on a general level I think you should try to eat small frequent meals each balanced as to protein,whole complex carbs,vegies(and/or fruits)and healthy fats(ie each meal containing something from each of those four groups). Examples of good foods from each group are protein(lean meat,dairy,eggs,beans,protein powder)complex carbs(oatmeal,brown rice,whole grain pastas/cereals)vegies(colorful variety)&fruits(low glycemic northern such as apples,pears,apricots)and fats(fat in protein sources plus nuts,seeds).
Protein drinks are great and very versatile but I do not like to consume protein alone as it causes bloating and indegestion for me.What I do is add protein to a blender and add some of the above mentioned ingredients such as fruit,nuts(or peanut butter)or even oatmeal along with water or milk for a quick and healthy full meal anytime.If you do just add a protein drink the most critical time is post workout to repair muscles etc. and here you may want to also include some simple carb.
But keep in mind making big dietary changes can be difficult so taking small steps to your goal is the best approach .For example giving up the chips was a step in the right direction you might try maki8ng one 'small' change like that each week until you end up where you want to be.

Guest

Might I elaborate on Croak's explanation for you a little so you can better understand what he's talking about?

Eat a good amount, do a lot of cardio, do a lot of weights.
See my post about the amount of cardio and weights.

Basically, this is prime time to take advantage of your hormones. During puberty is when you set an equilibrium in your body that is difficult to budge from for the rest of you life.
See my post about the surge of testosterone at puberty.

Lot's of good low glycemic index carbs, heaps of good quality protein and a good amount of essential fatty acids (a lot of omega 3) and a good ration of monounsaturated polyunsaturated:saturated fats.

Proteins- eat meat, basically. You can also get good sources of protein from legumes (beans), dairy (eggs, cheese, milk, etc), and soy. Proteins are composed of amino acids that are the building blocks of the muscle formed (when you are doing your weightlifting or just growing muscle from the increase of testosterone).

Low glycemic foods- foods that affect the blood sugar levels based on the carbohydrates contained in them. If you eat a food with carbs that break down quickly after digesting, then they are considered high glycemic foods. If you eat a food with carbs that takes a longer time to break down after digestion, then they are considered low glycemic foods. Low glycemic foods help you feel fuller longer, can help to keep you energized during long workouts, and if you eat it after exercise, you can replenish your loss of carbohydrate stores from exercise better. The rule of thumb is that if it's unprocessed (whole wheat grain rice) rather than processed (white rice, most cereals, etc.) then the unprocessed foods are lower on the glycemic scale. Vegetables are lower on the glycemic scale (for the most part) than fruits. Whoops, that doesn't mean eat less fruit! It just means that veggies are lower glycemic than fruit- but consider this... berries are low on the glycemic scale, while carrots score higher on the glycemic scale than the berries. Both are good for you, so eat plenty of both to get the nutrients from them!

Here's a link I got at a fitness convention from a dietitian- https://diabetes.about.com/library/me...nmendosagi.htm
She said that Rick Mendosa is the guru of the glycemic index. I had a look at his pages, and they are very comprehensive and go into greater explanation about the glycemic index. Take a look sometime soon.

One caveat- even though a food may be high on the glycemic index, if you mix them with a food lower on the glycemic index, it brings down the overall glycemic index. This gets a bit complicated, but a good example is if you eat a turkey sandwich with white bread. White bread is higher on the glycemic index, but when mixed with the turkey, which is lower on the scale, it brings the meal to an overall lower glycemic index than just eating that white bread by itself!

Essential fatty acids are fatty acids that are necessary for the body- Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids, to be specific. They cannot be made naturally by the body, so we need to eat them in order to get them in the body. We use them for brain function- without them, our brains simply cannot function. We also produce a hormone called prostaglandins. The prostaglandins basically control all the cells of the body, so it's very important! Prostaglandins production is controlled by fatty acids in the body, so a lack of them will mean that a lot of the body's functions will be insufficient for your everyday needs! Fatty acids are important for keeping good cholesterol (HDL or high density lipoproteins) high and bad cholesterol (LDL or low density lipoproteins) low. They also help increase blood circulation, which is important because that's how nutrients travel through the body! They also help stimulate the immune response, so when you get sick, your body can heal itself quickly. Fatty acids help to regulate hormones, and since you want to be able to keep your testosterone levels at a good level, it's good to get your fatty acids in there! They also help maintain the structure of the nerves, so you can send signals from your brain and spinal cord to the cells they affect. Finally, fatty acids are also important to the cell membrane- they form the outside of your cell membranes, so it helps to regulate the stuff that comes into and out of your cells. So, in conclusion, fatty acids are important!

Ok, so the breakdown of the Omega-3 fatty acids vs. Omega-6 fatty acids:
Omega-3 fatty acids are said to help control mood and help alleviate depression. They also help prevent cardiovascular disease, so it's important for the heart- it keeps the heart healthy. It also helps keep your cardiovascular system strong, so if you're looking to exercise and not run out of energy, you'll need this fatty acid. It also helps keep plaque from developing on your arteries (preventing the heart attack!!!).

It's important to make sure you are eating enough Omega-3 fatty acids. You can get it from eating fish like shellfish, sardines, albacore tuna, salmon, herring, trout, mackerel and anchovies. One of the fatty acids in Omega-3 is alpha linolenic acid, and some of the sources of linolenic acid are canola oil, soybeans, flaxseed, walnuts, and wheat germ. I think it's recommended to take about 3 g of Omega-3 fatty acids per day, but check with your local health food store. I do know that some people who overconsume Omega-3 fatty acids have been known to excessively bleed, so check with your all natural or health food store for the guidelines there.

Do be sure that you keep the amount of Omega-3 in balance with the amount of Omega-6 fatty acids. The name of the game is to eat them so that your body is in balance. If you're deficient in either of them, you could end up doing more harm than good.

Omega-6 fatty acids are part of the polyunsaturated fatty acids family. Omega-6 contain linoleic acid, which is converted to gamma linoleic acid, which are eventually converted to PROSTAGLANDINS (sound familiar?? ). Omega-6 fatty acids are found in cereals, eggs, poultry, most vegetable oils, whole-grain breads, baked goods, and margarine.

Ironically, it's the BALANCE of Omega-6 and Omega-3 fatty acids in our diets that gives us the good effects. Our diets (American diets) have plenty of Omega-6, but lack Omega-3 fatty acids. So you don't have to worry as much about supplementing with Omega-6 as you do with Omega-3 fatty acids, but again, as I said before, see a specialist at your whole food store to find out how to balance out your fatty acids so you get the optimal benefits of both.

Saturated fats are fats that contain an abundance of hydrogen molecules on their carbon molecules. If it's a saturated fat, carbons are completely full of hydrogens- they hold the maximum amount of hydrogens they can possibly hold. Saturated fats are usually solids at room temperature (ie- butter is solid at room temperature, while canola oil is not). Saturated fats do not combine with oxygen well- they are too saturated with hydrogen for that. They raise blood cholesterol (the bad cholesterol), and can raise your risk of coronary disease and stroke. Saturated fats are found in animal product and some plants.

Trans-fat is a newer fat recently highlighted in the news. Trans-fat is also as unhealthy as saturated fat and can also raise blood cholesterol levels (the bad cholesterol or LDL). Trans-fats are unsaturated fats, but they are bad because hydrogen is added to vegetable oils used in commercial baked goods and for cooking in most restaurants and fast-food chains. We Americans eat out a lot, and we eat a lot of stuff that's commercially baked, like OREOS... (HINT HINT.... ). Here are some places we find trans-fat: cookies, crackers and other commercial baked goods made with partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, french fries, donuts and other commercial fried foods (KFC, for instance, so don't buy into that stupid new commercial about how KFC is so good for the Atkins diet!!!!). Look at the nutritional content in food labels, and if you see partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, avoid it... that's trans-fat!

When foods are processed (ie- white flour, rice, etc), fats sometimes undergo a chemical process called hydrogenation, which means that hydrogens were added or, in the case of fatty acids, to saturate. The process changes a liquid oil, naturally high in unsaturated fatty acids, to a more solid and more saturated form. The greater the degree of hydrogenation, the more saturated the fat becomes. Lots of commercial products have hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated vegetable oils. Hydrogenated oils also may raise blood cholesterol. Avoid processed foods as much as possible, or at least limit your intake (ie white rice, foods made with white flour, mac and cheese, etc.).
Polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fatty acids are unsaturated fatty acids. Unsaturated fats have at least one place that hydrogen can be added to the molecule (or, carbons aren't completely saturated with hydrogens, so more could always be added- which is sometimes how foods become processed!!!). They're often found in liquid oils of vegetable origin.

Polyunsaturated oils are liquid at room temperature and in the refrigerator. They can combine with oxygen in the air to become easily spoiled. Common sources of polyunsaturated fats are found in plant oils, like safflower, sesame, soy, corn and sunflower-seed oils, nuts and seeds. Polyunsaturated fats help your body get rid of newly formed cholesterol (LDL) so they keep the blood cholesterol level down and reduce cholesterol plaque deposits in artery walls, so your risk of heart attacks and strokes can be reduced.

Monounsaturated oils are liquid at room temperature but start to solidify at refrigerator temperatures. Monounsaturated fats also help reduce blood cholesterol as long as the diet is very low in saturated fat. Monounsaturated fats are also found in plant oils, such as olive, canola and peanut oils, avocados.

Regardless of what the good fats do, you should limit your fat intake, but not totally get rid of your fat intake, as you can see that some fats do us some good. Keep in mind that you should limit your fat intake because fats contain more than twice the calories of either protein or carbohydrate. Fats contain 98 kcal/g calories, while protein and carbohydrates only contain 4 kcal/g.
Disregard going to the library. Read through what I wrote before and this post, then head over to your local health food store. Also, take this to your doctor and see what they recommend. Then start making those changes to your diet. The sooner you make these changes, and the longer you stick with it, the better off you'll be.

Finally, without knowing what you look like, do keep in mind that people will tend to gain fat in certain areas, while other areas may remain low in fat. This is primarily a genetics factor, and there's not much you can do about that except continue to train and regulate your eating. Just because you may have fat in some areas, doesn't mean you're overfat by any means. Do not buy into the Hollywood myth that every pretty person who is fit has zero fat on any part of the body. Take a look at Brad Pitt in "Fight Club". I am willing to bet every dollar in my bank right now that right now, this very moment, he looks NOTHING like that- it's simply something he may do for the 6 weeks of filming, but it's nowhere near what he may really look like. He trains hard, probably gets some kind of help along the way to look like that, and there is probably good lighting, and they probably do some serious touching up. There are ways to make someone look better than they actually appear. If you're concerned about being overly fat, see a personal trainer like we suggested and have a bodyfat analysis with calipers. Some clubs have the IPOD, which is a new chamber that measures fat and is supposed to be very accurate, but costs a lot. Try to get an underwater weighing if you can because that can be very accurate. If you are less than 20 percent bodyfat, you're doing pretty good. Even if you're over 20% but close to 20%, you're still doing pretty good.

All right, that's about all I can think to contribute right now. Trust me, you are NOT fat- just by reading your height and weight everyone here knows you are a string bean- long and skinny, and you will most likely not get big big muscles from lifting weights, but you will be able to build your overall strength and develop some good musculature. Just don't expect to look like Aaaah-nold, the Terminator... oops, I mean, Aaaaah-nold, California governor.


Koffee

Croak

Fantastic round-up! You still have any fingers left after typing that out?

Just one thing (probably a typo), fat has 9kcal, not 98!! I don't agree with the idea that one should limit their fat intake just due to this fact. It is just an easy way to lower calories, it is far from optimal.

Along the same lines as what Koffee says, getting abs to show is a struggle. There are very few people in the world that have them and these people work hard and have a good base of knowledge (or a good trainer) behind them.

Get on the net and start reading some nutrition sites. There are plenty out there.

RWTD

TVbuster To answer your second question I actually increase my calories when I am in a fat loss mode but my long distance aerobics(cycle and/or hiking)also ramp up so much that I still find it hard to match the calories I burn and end up losing fat and toning up(kind of the approach Pat described with the touring).It is important to add though with my body type losing fat is fairly easy and dieting is never really necessary or even advised.From your descriptions I think most people are assuming you have some of those characteristics.Other people have a harder time losing fat without more significant dieting but they tend to be more big boned and round in shape than tall and thin with small bones.Here is a link to a thread originally posted by DnvrFox that contains a link to a neat site that helps you determine your body type which will affect the best training and nutrition plan for you. https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ght=body+types
P.S. I kept trying to find where Pat's post I referred to went but it was actually in the "on the subject of dieting thread"

Guest

Yikes, thanks Croak! I need to edit but since you brought it up, I'll just reiterate by saying I meant 9 kcal/g for fat, not 98! If it were 98, we'd be so fat we couldn't even move normally, we'd all be so fat!



I actually think you should limit fat intake, but this is not the ONLY reason why I think it should be limited. I listed plenty of other reasons in that long diatribe too. It just doesn't help matters any that fat has so many kcal/g!

Koffee

Croak

I just hate simplifications that become consensus answers to problems.

Take for example the juicing thread. Why is it popular to juice veges? Because a few years ago a few nutritionists sat around a table to come up with ideas to get people to eat more veges. Now juicing was a good idea if the person could in no way eat the veges, but it's far from optimal. So then, instead of saying: "Eat more veges, but if you just can't stand that idea your last resort is juicing them" it has turned in to "Juice veges, it's just as good for you!".

I am of the oppinion that people should be given the very best and optimal information. Then if they have problems or complaints they can come back and make changes and sacrifices to best fit in to their lives.

I am pro-fat.

TVbuster

Woah!!! Thanks for taking the time to write all that!! Thanks to everyone for all of the great information. I will use it wisely I will read this many times over and over again to thouroughly understand it. I think that I will piece all of it together and create a small diet plan. Yes, I do have a rather tall, skinny type of body but surprisingly enough I do have some excess fat I will try to cancel out the oreo's from my diet and maybe replace them with some fruit. I will probably have a protein drink for breakfast and I will start to drink more water. I have actually been weight lifting for two years now. I have had a gym membership for a little over a year. I have gotten my arms pretty strong from lifting and I have not even a half-inch of fat on my legs thanks to cycling. My upper body is the only problem and I think that all of this information will help me be a success

Thanks again for everyone's help!! This has not only given me great information but it has also motivated me.

-TVbuster.

p.s. RWTD-
I think that my body type is closest to the Ectomorphic Mesomorph type.

Guest

Good work!

If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask it here. There are a lot of knowledgeable people who can help answer your questions.

Glad you recognize that people can be a combination of more than one body type and that you are a combination of two body types. Now I have a better idea of what you look like, and if you start to refer to yourself, I think we can give you some better answers to some more of your questions.

Take care,

Koffee

RWTD

TVbuster As I also have some ecto characteristics,train with weights and cycle some of my experiences may be relevant to you.Ecto's have problems gaining and retaining muscle/strength so this needs to be top priority if you are to be sucessful .Compared to endo's you gain less fat and lose it easier in fact combined with a fast metabolism once ecto's put on some muscle they become fatburning machines.
There are two basic strategies to losing fat from exercise either to exercise at a high enough intensity(ie fast pace)to not only burn primarily sugar but also significant fat or else to exercise at a slow/moderate pace to burn primarily fat but have to extend the duration to burn significant amounts.I find the slow/moderate pace works well for me as a balance to the anaerobic weight training as it helps keep a fast metabolism under control protecting muscle and also helps temper the sensitive,highstrung ecto disposition relieving stress,tension etc.
Now I feel I should bring up a topic why I believe many cyclists fail to lose fat in spite of significant time spent cycling.You can cycle for performance or you can cycle for fat loss but IMO they are two different things.For performance purposes most cyclists consume sugarladen drinks/gels/bars etc. as sugar provides the best performance with consistent intake.Unfortunately this form of fueling shuts off all fatburning as well.Exercise blunts hormone spikes due to the high sugar intake but not enough to allow significant fatburning.With either the high or low/moderate intensity approach you would be better off to fuel ahead of time with complex carbs and skipping the constant gatorade etc. during the ride.Focusing on the slow/moderate approach again you want to train your body to burn fat along with stored sugar(glycogen).For fuel while riding I find a combination of fat and complex or low glycemic carbs allows this as I find some fat along with nonsugary carbs actually primes the fatburning process .I prefer to stop entirely for a sitdown meal/snack allowing some time for digestion /storage and here is the one time I will eat something like pizza .On the bike something like pistachios and dried apricots work well for me but like i said before I really prefer to fuel ahead of time or at sitdown meals.