Would you support a mandatory helmet law?
#51
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No. I disagree with any mandatory law... from seatbelts to helmets. Not because such items don't save lives, but because I think we should not need silly nanny laws.
#53
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After living and complying with a helmet law for 12 years, I'm now breaking it.
When the law was passed, it was said that lives would be saved and brain injury would be reduced. It hasn't worked. In fact despite early heavy enforcement that raised usage to almost 80%, deaths went up as ridership decreased by a third. Needles to say, those increased deaths were to cyclists who were wearing helmets.
I think the intention behind the law was genuine enough, people really did want to make things safer, but they just were hoodwinked by studies (in particular the TRT study from Seattle published in the NEJM) and lobbyists. What legislators didn't know at the time was cyclists are killed by cars and the participants in the study that showed reductions in head injuries were not involved in collisions with cars.
The last few years enforcement has ceased (except in our capital city) helmets are off, ridership is up and proportionatly deaths are down (same actual numbers but more than a third more riders).
When the law was passed, it was said that lives would be saved and brain injury would be reduced. It hasn't worked. In fact despite early heavy enforcement that raised usage to almost 80%, deaths went up as ridership decreased by a third. Needles to say, those increased deaths were to cyclists who were wearing helmets.
I think the intention behind the law was genuine enough, people really did want to make things safer, but they just were hoodwinked by studies (in particular the TRT study from Seattle published in the NEJM) and lobbyists. What legislators didn't know at the time was cyclists are killed by cars and the participants in the study that showed reductions in head injuries were not involved in collisions with cars.
The last few years enforcement has ceased (except in our capital city) helmets are off, ridership is up and proportionatly deaths are down (same actual numbers but more than a third more riders).
Last edited by closetbiker; 01-26-09 at 11:37 AM.
#57
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Nothing but defiance for such a law here. I can understand mandatory use for children under 13, but that's as close to a general all encompassing law as I will go. Big brother already has his fingers into too much as it is.
Personal Choice.
Personal Choice.
#58
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Suddenly you'll start supporting them when your taxes jump dramatically.
#59
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100% Against Mandatory Helmet Law, freedumb of choice, comfort & enjoyment are big personal freedumb issues,
prefer nonintervention of government, but in attempt to permote bicycling as reliable safe transportation,
PLEASE see link https://home.earthlink.net/~ohallock/
For bicycle frame Safety Issues concerning C shaped forwardly open bicycle frame rear dropouts
& POSSIBILITIES OF REAR WHEEL BICYCLE FRAME SEPERATION during use,
it may be as important as helmets.
Dirt Road, no tricycle, no training wheels, lots a rocks....
prefer nonintervention of government, but in attempt to permote bicycling as reliable safe transportation,
PLEASE see link https://home.earthlink.net/~ohallock/
For bicycle frame Safety Issues concerning C shaped forwardly open bicycle frame rear dropouts
& POSSIBILITIES OF REAR WHEEL BICYCLE FRAME SEPERATION during use,
it may be as important as helmets.
Dirt Road, no tricycle, no training wheels, lots a rocks....
-Kurt
#60
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As a staunch Libertarian, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, my current personal medical insurance policy states in the fine print, no helmet, no medical or liability coverage.
#61
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Up here, at the polices discretion, people risk not only fines, but also confiscation of their bikes if they ride without helmets.
#63
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What insurance company is that? Helmet required just for bicycling or 24/7 for any and all activities? And liability for what? Damage to people or property you strike with an unhelmeted head? Sounds bogus to me.
#64
Part-time epistemologist
Can a life insurance policy mandate no motorcycling, hand gliding, or sky diving?
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This is of course ignoring all evidence of the efficacy of helmets in reducing injury...
#66
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or ignoring the evidence of the LACK of efficacy of helmets in reducing injury... or ignoring the LACK of evidence of the efficacy of helmets in reducing injury...
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I however do agree that cycling helmet design should be looked at, however I also think if you don't even attempt safety measures, maybe you should be left there on the ground until you fork out your credit card, since we're playing the "WAHHHHH nanny state!" game.
I'll give you a hint, we have nanny states because most adults act like children.
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Basically it's horrible financial planning, the exact kind of financial planning that runs up budgets and gets people in debt of comparing "deals", it is still a cost, even if it's a "deal".
#71
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It's a cost regardless, if like saying I'm only going to take $20 out of your wallet instead of $40, would you smile and hand me $20? No, it's still a loss that can be avoided.
Basically it's horrible financial planning, the exact kind of financial planning that runs up budgets and gets people in debt of comparing "deals", it is still a cost, even if it's a "deal".
Basically it's horrible financial planning, the exact kind of financial planning that runs up budgets and gets people in debt of comparing "deals", it is still a cost, even if it's a "deal".
This is all crusty old news.
Last edited by RobertHurst; 01-27-09 at 01:14 PM.
#72
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You seem to be assuming that, all other factors being equal, a society with a mandatory helmet law would have lower health care costs than a society without. There is plenty of evidence pointing the other direction. That is, mandatory helmet laws may cost society more money than they save because they keep people off bikes. Some places with MHLs even saw increases in head injury rates after enactment of the law for some reason or other.
This is all crusty old news.
This is all crusty old news.
My agenda is saving money, so obviously I'm out for facts on which WILL save money, you're agenda is not having to wear a helmet, you're heavily biased.
Last edited by StrangeWill; 01-27-09 at 01:24 PM.
#73
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#74
Part-time epistemologist
It's a cost regardless, if like saying I'm only going to take $20 out of your wallet instead of $40, would you smile and hand me $20? No, it's still a loss that can be avoided.
Basically it's horrible financial planning, the exact kind of financial planning that runs up budgets and gets people in debt of comparing "deals", it is still a cost, even if it's a "deal".
Basically it's horrible financial planning, the exact kind of financial planning that runs up budgets and gets people in debt of comparing "deals", it is still a cost, even if it's a "deal".
$X = cost of helmet
H = 1 if wearing a helmet
First you have to ask yourself is
P(collision|H=1)*f(severity|H=1) - $X
greater than, equal to, less than
P(collision|H=0)*f(severity|H=0)
I don't think that you can demonstrate that red is less than blue. You certainly can't do it without rigorous empirical measurements. If you then let cycling vary with mandatory helmet laws, then you just increase the ambiguity.
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#75
Part-time epistemologist
True ... but everyone has been itching to argue the point all over again anyway.
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