I don't know horses. I've seen policewomen/men riding them two abreast down a city street, (Ha! Swallow that, impatient drivers!) though probably just to give them exercise.

But horses were common only a few generations ago.

(So what's the point? :confused: )

Ok. Here's the point:

People used to use horses, donkeys, oxen, camels, elephants, etc. (and still do) to provide power for their work and travel. They understood that you couldn't run a horse (or animal) forever, that that horse needed rest and food to recover. They are strong, but have limited power, since they are flesh and blood.

In a similar way, cyclists must have this awareness about themselves: we are flesh and blood, too. We need proper rest, food and recovery to go the distance. This is indeed an important thing to know about oneself.

Motorists don't have this basic awareness of themselves. I feel sorry for them!

(Comparing yourself to a horse, Pete? "Hello, I'm Mr. Pete!" A horse is a horse, of course, of course...)

Doubtful that the average cager has awareness of bloody anything anymore. I'm still stuck driving to work in the mornings, as I can't physically wake up early enough to bike and get here on time; and while sitting through the initial stages of rush hour, I wonder why people willingly subject themselves to this.

Sitting in a car, in traffic, surrounded by smog-belching, clattering; and, above all, ugly machines is hardly a relaxing start to the day.

You raise a really good point about self-awareness, though. Perhaps one of the reasons that those who bother to lead active lifestyles, such as cyclists or runners, are generally healthier is that they are more "in-tune" with the needs of their body. Cagers and their ilk likely lose a great deal of that mind-body awareness because they rarely exercise it.

I grew up watching old sit-coms; one of the few members of the "Friends" generation who has fond memories of Bewitched, Mr. Ed, and Get Smart. And the original dragnet, with Joe Friday (who always gave his partner crap about the double cream/double sugar in his coffee).

Thanks for the reminder.

Pete, I still don't get your point. Just sounds like another rant against motorists, to me.

The real point is that over 100 years ago, our countries had a sophisticated support network of blacksmiths, stables, stagecoach inns, horsefood dealers and horse-waste recylers.
In a matter of decades they were able to completey alter the infrastructure to support another mode of transportation.
If we can do it once, we can do it again.

Not only that, when global oil supplies start to run out, infrastructure will need to be altered again. I have no faith whatsoever in the intelligence of this species to come up with a satisfactory alternative fuel supply (especially when powerful governments are elected with oil money).

The sooner that change happens the easier it will be.

It's a lovely dream you guys have; and perhaps with this world wide forum -and it is becoming world wide with our newest members- enough voices may be raised to make a difference. Still, it must become a loud hue and cry globally to make any kind of an impact.
The oil is not going to run out in our lifetimes.

And the fuel cell holds a great deal of promise.

And, at one time (under Carter) we were actually using the power of the sun, good house design, and good insulation to keep some of our houses warm. The oil lobby killed that one real fast.

There is a LOT of energy available - solar, wind, sea tides, TREMENDOUS shale reserves and coal reserves, nuclear - to adequately supply our needs - and our cars. The economics may change, but the energy is there.

Don't count on oil running out to change travel. Our technology and the profit motive are too good for that. Fuel celled cars have been built and are on the drawing boards. Solar is getting more efficient. And there are things that we have not yet discovered that will radically change our lives. Fusion, for example. Not there yet, but wait 20-40 years.

You heard it first here

Not just that, but since their activities are out of doors, they are in tune with the rhythms of the real world – the earth, sky and weather. I think that there is something psychologically healthy and deeply satisfying with this feeling of being ‘in sync’ with our environment.

My wife and I do a lot of gardening and don’t have central (automatic) heating. These also help keep us in tune.

There is a LOT of energy available - solar, wind, sea tides, TREMENDOUS shale reserves and coal reserves, nuclear - to adequately supply our needs - and our cars. The economics may change, but the energy is there.

The 250million Americans see the world from an energy-rich persective. Just across the Pacific Ocean are 1000,million people who currently use very little energy, but all want a slice of that pie. The oil companies are building gas stations in every small town in China, and car companies are pressing for more roads on which their products can queue.

Pardon me while I disagree...or (as is highly likely) I have missed Pete's point entirely.

Seems to me though, that where people cared for their horses/livestock/whatever, motorists care for their vehicles.

This isn't meant to promote or defend motor vehicles, I know that's pointless, even heresy here in BF.

But come on gang. Motor vehicle maintenance, while certainly not universal, sure is prolific. And yes, I'll agree that there is a huge number of poorly maintained motor vehicles out there.

Sorry Pete, I just think you either expressed your idea poorly or that you are wrong. My apology if I misunderstood your point.

Onward and Upward!

Bill! You sure have missed the target by about 100 yards!

(I don't blame you, though. I am not trying to be right, just expressing myself. It's ok to say I'm wrong!)

My point is simple: human power is fast becoming a lost area of human experience. My point is not that motorists are evil, unless you count me, for somethimes I am both evil and a motorist, sometimes simultaneously!