joe englert

im going to look at a mid-late 70s masi tommorow. the owner says its all nuovo record-clip on rear brake cable guides(i think that means 70s) and is in great shape.
the problem i have is that he said it has absolutely no decals on it. how can i tell if its a gran crit. which is what i want-as opposed to a strada or corsa model-which is what i dont want? i own a lippy gran crit. so i can write down infor on that to take with me but is there anything on the bottom or anywhere else that will tell me the model? i wrote to hovey but just in case i dont hear from him by tommorow morning i thought id give you guys a shot. i have to drive to look at it and its cheap(300.00) but i would like to know the model if possible. thanks forever. joe

Picchio Special

If it has clips and an "M" cutout BB, it's a GC. Take it to the bank. The "ones you don't want" have braze-on cable guides.

Road Fan

But we don't want to interpret this as "if it has cable guide braze-ons it is not a Gran Criterium."

Picchio Special

Nor did I imply that in my post.

repechage

Prestige and the Volumetrica both have M cut out bottom bracket shells.
The Volumetrica will have some form of rear brake cable housing control brazed on or in.

An unmarked bike just indicates repaint without a visual review. Repaints happen for many reasons, some benign, some not.

Study Bob Hovey's site, it will help quite a bit, but it is not finished.
A serial number or any and all bottom bracket stampings will assist in a broad way.
One thing I have to say is that let the frame tell you the date, don't take the owner's word, even if he or she bought it new, and it was in the mid 70's that is 35 years ago. Most just do not have that good a memory.

joe englert

thanks again i will keep all that you say in mind when i look at this tommorow. i just got a reply from mr hovey and he said that corsa and strada models were made in middle eighties and have braze on cable guides. he also said the masi bits part of his webisite will help so.... i will print out what you guys have said and what infor i have from hovey and get some pics to post if and probably when i pick it up tomorrow cheers

Picchio Special

Sure, the "M" cutout wasn't limited to the GC. But the other possibilties would have braze-on TT cable guides. "M" cutout and clips instead of braze-on cable guides = GC.

joe englert

well, i picked up the bike only 200.00 so i took the chance. good news-its all nuovo record-bad news it was redone by a rattle can paint job-no decals. bottom bracket has no m cut out or serial number or mc smc etc just four square cut outs. the guy i bought it from said when he got it it was really beat up paintwise and decal wise although he said it had a badge-not a decal on the head tube. but he swears the decals and head badge said masi

vjp

It sounds like a 1960's Italian Masi (if it is a Masi).

We need to see pics, could be a real score Joe... I hope it is, I really do!!

vjp

vjp

You can see in this pic from Bob Hoveys site that the bikes in the background have "4 port", "6 port" and the "M" cut outs, does yours look like the 4 port one?

https://bhovey.com/Masi/MasiVisit/pages/31.htm

vjp

joe englert

hay thanks alot vip. actually those four ports do look like the ones on the bottom of the bike i just got. keep my fingers crossed on this. as you know i got ripped off on a misrepresented cinelli a while ago so this would make up for it if it is a genuine masi. so i guess the lacking of a serial number is ok? i really have not had time yet to go over the bike in detail-i just got it this morning. i do notice that the campy hubs that the guy said were original dont have the black band around the middle or the world logo like my record hubs but they have the wing logo does this help date it? i will try to post some pics of bottom bracket and other parts asap thanks again-maybe this time i scored. oh , by the way. it also has a 3t stem that is engraved "record" it looks pretty old, but who knows

vjp

COOL, I have my fingers crossed!

Very early Masi Speciale frequently didn't have serial #'s OR a frame size stamp. Later ones had a frame size stamp generally. The head badges disappeared in 1968 according to Bob. Have you looked at your hubs closely are they 3 pieces (two spoke flanges pressed on to the center barrel) ? They could be early Gran Sport which would fit if the bike is older than you think.

vjp

vjp

Like this

https://images.google.ca/imgres?imgur...a%3DN%26um%3D1

Drillium Dude 

As I would one day like to add a GC to my stable, I'm following this thread with great interest. If this is indeed a 60s Masi, you just blew my 'bargain of a lifetime' out of the water ($175 for a 73 Super)!

I, too, hope you got a genuine Masi out of that deal. Please keep us posted!

Picchio Special

Yeah, Italian Masis didn't have serial numbers right through the 70's, AFAIK, unike their US counterparts. The headbadges persisted past '68 - maybe to 1970.
The BB shells on Specials were originally solid, I believe, giving way to a three-slot design sometime in the late 60's (maybe 1967). This was followed by a six-port design (seen on both late Specials and early GC's). The four-port bottom bracket apparently starts to show up in '71, at which point they are exclusively on GC's, and would definitely not have had headbadges. Having said that, there are apparently a number of different BB shell perforation configurations during this transition from the Special to the GC. The combination of the four-port bottom bracket and metal headbadge would seem to be something of a non sequitor (and not indicative of an early Special or Speciale Corsa, AFAIK.)
We will need pics, as usual. Do the lugs have cutouts?

joe englert

the lugs seem ornate kind of like nervex. the hubs look likethe ones in the picture with the flying wings but are not two piece. i notice that the fork crown(which was sprayed with the rest of the bike with that damn rattle can) has four dot indentions on each part of the crown-if that makes any sence? im going to get pics by tonight-i hope

vjp

Early 60's Masi had Nervex sometimes....

vjp

Picchio Special

Yes, but not 4-port bottom bracket shells, AFAIK - so let's not cherry-pick details based on what we'd like the bike to be, especially in the absence of photos. The four-hole crown doesn't ring Masi bells, either (though they did use a crown in the 60's with a slot and a single hole in the side of each crown). Also, the hubs sound like low-flange Tipos more than anything else.
Let's please wait for the pics.

vjp

But, cherry picking is more fun than being sensible, and what if this is the actual missing Coppi/Bianchi/Masi/Grail ? And it only cost $200.....

vjp

Otis

Didn't Joe's Cinelli post teach everybody not to specualte about rare early bikes until he posts the pics.

Joe, I hope it's a 60's Masi Special that you'll send to Baylis to be restored, but I remember how you got everybody worked up about "no name Campy parts" that turned out to be mundane 90's stuff once we saw the pics. So I will wait patiently until we can see what this frame looks like

joe englert

ok here are the pics-i hope. i tried to take them of the main parts. i can get more if necessary. i hope that this isnt another "cinelli" but even so. 200.00 for nuovo record parts is fine with me

Otis

Interesting. I'd like to see a good side shot of the seat-lug/seat-stay tops, and better shots of the head lugs as well as the rear drop-outs.

joe englert

ok. if it looks promising ill be happy to do it. say, can you make the pics show here in the thread? i dont know how to do it. somebody did it for me the last time but i frogot who it was. thanks/

vjp

Plus the fork and clear shots of the whole bike from the side, front and back please.

vjp

andy e

joe- to make pics work just host them somewhere (photobucket.com , flickr etc) then click the little picture image (yellow square w/ a mountain in it). put the address of the pic in there. viola