svgeek

I have both an '87 Schwinn Prologue with Tange Prestige frameset and a '92 Miyata 916 with the CrMo STB.

I love both bikes. But objectively, which bike has the better metal technology? Or are they equivalent?

I cannot tell by riding because they are set up differently (one with modern components, the other remaining mostly stock) and because I am not much of a rider (experience, range of bikes ridden etc).

Thanks!

Ben

Charles Wahl

I think you're over-analyzing this. The differences between types of quality butted tubing are infinitesimal. Ride the two bikes and see which one has the better gestalt, as far as you're concerned. If you really can't tell the difference, then go on looks!

Chombi

Personally, I always thought triple butting was mostly pointless as titanium rails on a saddle and stitched leather bar coverings....uhhhmm......CrMo is.....CrMo.....

miamijim

from a mettalurgical perspective there's probably no difference.

From a ride quality/feel perspective there's quite a bit of difference. Tange Prestige is an ultra-light tube thats not overly stiff. Miyata's STB tubes are more optimized for each model and frame size and they're also heavier.

Tange Pretige is Tange Prestige. 1 tube set covers all manufactuers, all models and all frame sizes
Miyata's STB tubes are drawn differently for each model and frame size. A 714 STB tube is NOT the same as a Team STB tube.

T-Mar

Miyata's frame tubing alloy was proprietary. We don't much, other than to say it was a CrMo. They could customize the tubes the to suit a particular frame, since they had their own tubing mill.

Having said that, given that the 916 was an upper mid-range model, so I suspect it's a standard CrMo, with the helical ribs to add stiffness without a significant weight penalty. Miyata had a reputation for favouring stiffness and durability. The Prestige was higher strength than a standard CrMo alloy and could be drawn to thinner gauges, resulting in a lighter frame.

They're both very good tubesets, however if they were identical in gemometry and size, the Miyata would probably be heavier and stiffer. In the end, the ride characteristics will depend as much on the frame design, things like wheel/tire choice and personal set-up. The fact that you like both bicycles is what's really important.

svgeek

Thanks for the responses!


Ben

frpax

I think the frame geometries will have more to do with how they ride, than the actual tubes themselves.

Chombi

Hear, hear, Only thing that might cause a perceptible difference to most mortal bikers that I can think of is maybe thickess and resulting weight, but you might have to have superpower senses to know a Tange , Ishiwata, Vitus, Reynolds, Columbus...etc. from each other in a "blind" ride test.
......JMOs

Chombi
84 Peugeot PSV.

Peter_B

I will second that hear, hear. Some years ago, Bicycle Guide ran a story by Alan Cote entitled "The Magnificent 7, the ultimate blind test?" using seven Mondonicos built the same (frame, paint, and parts) with seven different Columbus tubesets. The bikes were ridden, and the author concluded:

"... The bike I liked best, which I also thought was the stiffest, was ... the Neuron frame. The one I thought was the softest was ... the SLX frame. The one that seemed to absorb vibrations best was .... the Thron frame. I could perceive no real difference between ... Cromor ... Brain ... Aelle...
and... EL-OS. ... To be honest, I couldn't feel a difference between an Aelle frame - with straight-gauge tubing and weighing in at 4 pounds 12 ounces - and an EL-OS frame - with double-butted, oversize thin-wall Nivacrom tubing and only 4 pounds of heft. A conclusion which, if marketing literature is to be believed, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If the numbers on the bikes were switched around and I were to test each bike again, my guess is that I'd come up with different tubing preferences. I think my ride impressions were essentially random. Does this mean you should pass on the expensive steel frame and buy a cheap one? I don't know. The Aelle frame does weigh 3/4 pound more than the EL-OS frame, but the El-OS frame costs $815 more - close to three times as much as the Aelle frame. I'm reminded of something Richard Sachs - one of the finest custom framebuilders in the country - told me. Sachs said, "When someone is buying a bike from me, they're buying my design choices and my construction skills. I actually think material is the least consequential choice." What do these seven Mondonicos say about bike performance and testing? Perhaps more than anything, they illustrate that the personality of a bike is determined much more by fit, frame geometry and components than by what kind of tubing lies under the paint."

Billsbikerepair

I've just picked up a Miyata Seven Twelve. What can you tell me about it?

JohnDThompson 

Tange's "Prestige" tubing was heat treated, much like Reynolds 753. It could be drawn thinner as a result, making lighter frames possible.