Greg LeMond on Improving Lung Capacity... Your tips???...
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Greg LeMond on Improving Lung Capacity... Your tips???...
With a lung capacity of 92.5 ml/mn/kg, arguably the highest recorded in cycling, Greg recommend holding his/your breath for a certain length of time, several times in a row.
Can anyone confirm this???...
Would anyone else happen to have any great tips for increasing lung capacity???...
Can anyone confirm this???...
Would anyone else happen to have any great tips for increasing lung capacity???...
Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 04-19-10 at 08:35 AM.
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Lung capacity and VO2 are not the same animal. Improving it means doing a lot more than holding your breath.
My tips:
Improve muscle vascularization. Training at anaerobic threshold?
Increase heart stroke volume. Intervals?
Have all muscle fibers replaced with slow-twitch ones. Surgery + donor?
Be reincarnated as a quadruped. Good/bad karma + luck + tolerance for dog food.
Bjørn Dæhlie, the xc skier, is reported to have hit 96 ml/kg/min during the off season. Some figured him for triple digits during race season. Did most of his training at 130bpm.
He did some hill intervals for such a duration and intensity, that he collapsed after each one.
My tips:
Improve muscle vascularization. Training at anaerobic threshold?
Increase heart stroke volume. Intervals?
Have all muscle fibers replaced with slow-twitch ones. Surgery + donor?
Be reincarnated as a quadruped. Good/bad karma + luck + tolerance for dog food.
Bjørn Dæhlie, the xc skier, is reported to have hit 96 ml/kg/min during the off season. Some figured him for triple digits during race season. Did most of his training at 130bpm.
He did some hill intervals for such a duration and intensity, that he collapsed after each one.
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See:
Ventilation and Endurance Performance
https://home.hia.no/~stephens/ventphys.htm
Ventilation and Endurance Performance
https://home.hia.no/~stephens/ventphys.htm
So, if you made it to the end of this novel, you may be disappointed to learn that there are no secret breathing tricks that will push you over the top. In general the lungs are wonderfully equipped for doing their job. Training does improve the ventilatory system in some ways, but it is not the weak link in healthy athletes.
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It isn't lung capacity that's limiting during exercise. Rather, other anatomical issues are more important. The superior aspect of the lungs are relatively poorly perfused when standing/sitting upright, meaning that there isn't enough blood there to pick up the oxygen you have.
Bringing in more muscles to bring in more air also costs you more energy. Some have found this to be as much as the energy you get from the extra oxygen you bring in.
Don't forget that ventilation is not linear with work rate, while VO2 is. At the ventilatory threshold, which generally correlates with the lactate threshold, it becomes exponential. You're not doing all that extra work because you're hypoxic, but to buffer blood acid via the bicarbonate buffer system (breathing off CO2 increases blood pH).
If the lungs were all that is keeping VO2 from increasing, EPO would not have the effects on VO2 that it does. There are other physical barriers to performance.
VO2 = HR * SV * (a-v)O2
The terms of the Fick equation are naturally bounded on the upper end. HR is intrinsically limited, and at higher values can compromise SV. SV is constrained by not only the natural boundaries of the heart, but by the structures around it. A couple of Finnish studies found that removing the pericardium in pigs resulted in an increase in their VO2 max by as much as a third. They aren't upright during exercise like we are, though, which affects venous return. Arterial-venous O2 is affected by how much oxygen you can extract from the blood, and if that is not the limiting factor it's how much oxygen the blood can carry. The effects of EPO and blood doping would suggest the latter is limiting. Depending on the volume infused during blood doping, it could increase stroke volume to some degree, as well.
The link in the previous post mentions transit time of blood being sufficient in most, but lower in elite athletes. This is another factor that affects (a-v)O2.
There are limits to natural human performance. Lung capacity isn't usually limiting until you get older, and the elasticity of your rib cartilage is lost. Then, it's thought you can have reductions important to sports performance.
Bringing in more muscles to bring in more air also costs you more energy. Some have found this to be as much as the energy you get from the extra oxygen you bring in.
Don't forget that ventilation is not linear with work rate, while VO2 is. At the ventilatory threshold, which generally correlates with the lactate threshold, it becomes exponential. You're not doing all that extra work because you're hypoxic, but to buffer blood acid via the bicarbonate buffer system (breathing off CO2 increases blood pH).
If the lungs were all that is keeping VO2 from increasing, EPO would not have the effects on VO2 that it does. There are other physical barriers to performance.
VO2 = HR * SV * (a-v)O2
The terms of the Fick equation are naturally bounded on the upper end. HR is intrinsically limited, and at higher values can compromise SV. SV is constrained by not only the natural boundaries of the heart, but by the structures around it. A couple of Finnish studies found that removing the pericardium in pigs resulted in an increase in their VO2 max by as much as a third. They aren't upright during exercise like we are, though, which affects venous return. Arterial-venous O2 is affected by how much oxygen you can extract from the blood, and if that is not the limiting factor it's how much oxygen the blood can carry. The effects of EPO and blood doping would suggest the latter is limiting. Depending on the volume infused during blood doping, it could increase stroke volume to some degree, as well.
The link in the previous post mentions transit time of blood being sufficient in most, but lower in elite athletes. This is another factor that affects (a-v)O2.
There are limits to natural human performance. Lung capacity isn't usually limiting until you get older, and the elasticity of your rib cartilage is lost. Then, it's thought you can have reductions important to sports performance.
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Yeah, Tadawdy is right. Lung capacity is not limiting to normal healthy individuals and atheletic performance. Blood coming out of the capillary beds of the lungs is essentially 99 % saturated with oxygen.
The limitation is the amount of oxygen being delivered to the working muscles. The limit there is the amount of blood flowing to the muscles. That is why heart rate is an indication of intensity of exercise. Your cardiac output is pretty proportional to your heart rate.
That is also why increases in hemoglobin concentration in the blood also helps aerobic performance. Of course, if you get too many RBCs, red blood cells, in your blood if you get a tad bit dehydrated, your blood become way too viscous and cause cardiac arrest. But that only happens with epogen abuse or blood doping and then in extreme cases.
Mammals have pretty efficient lungs. Of course, birds are even better at it. Instead of having blind sacs, bird's lungs are essentially flow through systems. Birds in many ways are superior to mammals. They have mammals beat on nitrogenous waste excretion also.
To get back to lung capacity though, having a larger lung capacity probably would not improve aerobic performance. Having a higher concentration of hemoglobin and a greater heart stroke volume would be far more important.
The limitation is the amount of oxygen being delivered to the working muscles. The limit there is the amount of blood flowing to the muscles. That is why heart rate is an indication of intensity of exercise. Your cardiac output is pretty proportional to your heart rate.
That is also why increases in hemoglobin concentration in the blood also helps aerobic performance. Of course, if you get too many RBCs, red blood cells, in your blood if you get a tad bit dehydrated, your blood become way too viscous and cause cardiac arrest. But that only happens with epogen abuse or blood doping and then in extreme cases.
Mammals have pretty efficient lungs. Of course, birds are even better at it. Instead of having blind sacs, bird's lungs are essentially flow through systems. Birds in many ways are superior to mammals. They have mammals beat on nitrogenous waste excretion also.
To get back to lung capacity though, having a larger lung capacity probably would not improve aerobic performance. Having a higher concentration of hemoglobin and a greater heart stroke volume would be far more important.
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Bjørn Dæhlie, the xc skier, is reported to have hit 96 ml/kg/min during the off season. Some figured him for triple digits during race season. Did most of his training at 130bpm.
He did some hill intervals for such a duration and intensity, that he collapsed after each one.
He did some hill intervals for such a duration and intensity, that he collapsed after each one.
Is it possible? Bjørn Dæhlie's started his cross country sking career at lets say a 60 ml/kg/min VO2 & developed it through training too a 96 ml/kg/min VO2???...
1. What does Bjørn Dæhlie do during the off season (summer) when there is no snow on the mountain?. Does he jump ship & go where there is snow to train???...
2. What does he supplement his cross country sking with???... Cycling?, Running, Hill sprints?, lift weights?.
???.
Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 03-08-10 at 05:01 PM.
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Is it possible? Bjørn Dæhlie's started his cross country sking career at lets say a 60 ml/kg/min VO2 & developed it through training too a 96 ml/kg/min VO2???... You say he trained at an impressive 130bpm. Surely this must be expanding the lungs a great deal.
???.
Another consideration is that if you look for highest-recorded VO2's, you'll find they are mostly xc skiers. VO2 is mode-specific; xc skiing elicits higher VO2's than cycling, because the upper body is involved. If you tested him on a bike, it would be lower.
130 bpm sure is low for training, but his resting HR was also probably about 30 bpm, reflecting a low intrinsic HR and massive stroke volume. To put this in perspective, this is similar to the average fit guy going from 55 to 155; it's why training intensities are better described in terms of HR reserve rather than max HR. Where the low absolute HR helps is in conserving oxygen by reducing consumption by the heart itself.
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You gonna eat that?
I think David Blaine can.
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So, increased VO2/Lung capacity via involving the upperbody?. Cycling alone won't reach my full potential.
I say awesome because of an endurance upperbody exercise I have been dedicated to for the past 5 months, I believe has paid dividends to increasing my lung capacity, so now I have an idea & feel mentally better that my time spent (training very hard) just the upperbody, wasn't for nothing.
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I think David Blaine can.
Utilizing the mammalian dive reflex can also help hold your breath longer.
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Lung capacity is significant for swimmers, since you do hold your breath.
Utilizing the mammalian dive reflex can also help hold your breath longer.
Utilizing the mammalian dive reflex can also help hold your breath longer.
Interesting to hear elite rowers having the potential to develop huge capacities too, with regards to (big chests/strong upperbodys).
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On the bike today, my accessory breathing muscles (intercostals) are more sore than usual after performing no more than 50 breath holds. Can anyone place this to an increase in lung capacity, the added soreness?
Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 04-19-10 at 08:37 AM.
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Well, dang,. from what you and others say, there is work involved in this lung thing. RATS!
Seriously this is one very interesting thread. Thanks for getting it going.
Seriously this is one very interesting thread. Thanks for getting it going.
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I think the sombreo is stressing the neck and other breathing muscles.
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When I run really heard I get "out of breath", however when I climb on my bike my whole body get really hot and tired but I am not out of breath?
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I guess the issue is running enhances your VO2 more than cycling. The running seems to be having a good carry over effect (VO2) to your cycling. I find this to be the case also.
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The studies I've seen on this show that they both boost VO2 about the same. It's just that cycling is more-mode specific, i.e. running will help your cycling more than cycling will help your running.
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