Rich_uk

its a shame there's no alternative to the Derailleur system, even with my xtr set up i still find i need to tweek the gears on nearly every ride or change up 2 and drop 1 just to get them on the right gear!! this rohlof system looks interesting, they clame it weighs no more than a derailleur system and it has the same amount of gear ratios as a 3X9 Derailleur system, plus it only needs an oil change once a year. the only downside i can see is that it uses crappy grip shifters!! oh, and the price is a bit of a put off as well!!

Funkychicken

actually, there is an alternative being developed - honda came up with a bike that uses cams instead of cogs, all enclosed within the front triangle of the bike.

/ignore me, useless FYI

Maelstrom 

Down with the deraileur!!!!

Roholff is neat. Bit of a misshift between 6 and 7 if I remember right. Very expensive but very crisp. And being able to shift without pedalling is a payoff in and of itself.

The other downside right now is small part breakage. Something breaks you need $$$$ to fix. I have come very close to buying one as I hate deraileurs, but as of yet the deraileur system is wayyyyy cheaper.

Maelstrom 

Not avilable to the public in any way though.

There is also the gearbox being developed by Nicolai which is a heavy modification to the roholff...shows some promise for sure. but still $$$$$.

Dannihilator

Then there is my theory and the only other person who knows it is Maelstrom and I'm not about to let it leak out here yet.

Maelstrom 

Not saying a word

hooligan

Psst guys, can you let me in on your theory.

FoX Rider

When will you learn...

Dannihilator

I/we won't let any info out until there is a working prototype.

FoX Rider

Sounds secretive...

Maelstrom 

Its a thought right now. But you keep thought to yourself until you can patent them. If he released his idea whats to stop any engineer logging in and trying it themselves.

nepaMTBer

Get a patend quick so you can tell us cause now im realy realy interested.

FoX Rider

I have an idea. It is kind of illegal...


Just make a bigger box and put a midget in there, give him a mixture of crack and speed. Waa-laa, you got yourself a speed demon.

seely

If you're having to "tweak" your derailleur as often as you say, I hate to say it but you aren't doing something right, or the thing is completely worn out. Are your jockey pullies worn? Do you keep the chain lubed and clean? Is your derailleur hanger bent? My XTR rear is about 3 years old now, and has been on two different bikes with the mileage around 3000mi probably. In that time its been slammed into the concrete when I cased a 5' stair jump, and run through mud, water, sand, and neglected at times. I've never had to adjust the limits (except when I bent a hanger & need to limp home or switched btwn. bikes)... just tweak the cable tension a couple of times, but once the cables are stretched I maybe need to give the barrel 1/4 turn every couple of months and thats about it. Same went for my LX derailleur, and my Ultegra 600 (OLD Ultegra). I would carefully evaluate your drivetrain's condition and cleanliness and then decide if its really the derailleurs fault.

Maelstrom 

I should point out. For my xc rig, a deraileur is fine. I don't have many issues.

My hate-on for deraileurs stems from freeriding and dh where this part hangs low and free and easily abused. If you are riding xc or even technical trails you should really consider what seely is saying.

nathank

yep, i broke ANOTHER derailer hanger last weekend - did a SMALL drop off a rock into loose gravel and the rear wheel sunk deep enough in the loose stuff so the derailer contacted too and... broken (luckily had a spare in my backpack)

i've been thinking about Rohloff for a while now and seen a bunch and have personally chatted with a bunch of riders who have the system.

+ it works!
+ it doesn't break
- people complain it is noisy - i think in the 6th or 7th gear and the one shift somewhere there is also "ugly"
- although it weighs approximately the same as an XT setup (more than XTR) the weight is more on the back wheel which most people don't like --- i hear it is GOOD for drops and jumping but not good for technical and stunts
+ with the straight chain line you just have SO few problems!
- with a full suspension you still need a chain tensioner and i have heard that it sometimes acts a little funny with some full suspensions

--> i was really thinking about it, but a Freeride friend of mine gave me some new info last weekend: he said on steep technical UPHILLS the loss in power was too much:

Rohloff is about 98% efficient regardless of chain-line (not an issue) or dirt/lubrication (in "normal" cases) - chain system is 99% efficient when chain-line is straight, chain oiled and clean -- can easily go down to the 92-95% range if the above are not the case

Rohloff is definitely the way to go for mostly downhill Freeriding/Downhill and ESPECIALLY for hardtails for this use!

it is also a good choice for MAJOR touring where dependability is a must.

Nicolai is a system where the Rohloff is integrated into the Crank/Bottom Bracket so the weight distribution problem does not exist. it uses a 2nd chain from the Crank to the Bottom Bracket --- looks cool but is WAY expensive.

i hear an American is building a simliar system using the Shimano internal hub (7 speeds i think?) but the gearing and quality of the Shimano system is not so good i hear.

--> but i sure do like the IDEA of not having a deraileur to break when it slams into rocks, no chain-suck and the straight chain-line means virtually no chain breakage...

Maelstrom 

Nathank...nothing more to contribute to the thread...just saying hi. Good to see you again

axmac

Just met a guy who uses the 14 speed and he says it is great.. he abuses it and it puts up with it.. he's had them 4 years and no problems. He'll never go back. It shifts quickly about 4-5 gears instantly and long as you are not cranking really hard. Under less cranking pressure it will shift instantly to any gear you want. You can slide the twist shifter over so you are less likely to hit it by accident. If you are creative or know guys in a machine shop, you can adapt the cable set up to ratcheting trigger shifter. He said the weight difference was not an issure. His chain never pops off, and if a stick gets in the cogs it just gets ground up, providing it isn't over 3/4 inch. When he bought it, it was $850 and has no regrets. Just make sure you get the right set-up for how you mount it to your particular frame. He custom did his and also uses motorcycle spokes on his heavy-duty rims. His total outlay for all his upgrades/modofications were about 1500. But the hub itself is stock.. I am sold but it is more $ than I can spend at the moment, but I am hunting for a hub myself....good luck,
Ax

Buzzbomb

I just wanted to reply in the interest of accuracy. I have owned and ridden a Rohloff equipped bike for 4 years now, and will never go back to derailleurs again. Lots of people don't like the grip style shifter, but I don't see any easy way to convert to a trigger style shifter. All the indexing takes place inside the hub, and when I disconnect the shifter box it is evident, the grip twists with no resistance or indexing. Shifting is precise, and while shifting is easy, it is not effortless because it isn't spring loaded in the sense that a traditional shifter is. Shifts are easily performed with the grip, but I have never accidentally shifted due to the amount of force that has to be applied to the shifter. Although shifts are easily accomplished with the twist grip, I don't think your thumb and fingers would be up to the job. As far as weight goes, I don't find it to be an issue for me, but figure that your bike will weigh about 1 pound more that an XT equipped bike.


EDIT: Just read through this thread and noticed some comments about the infamous 7-8 shift. Rohloffs have 2 ranges, high and low, and utilize the same 7 sets of gears to accomplish 14 speeds. The 7-8 shift is actually 2 shifts; 1 from low range to high range, then from 7 to 1. It was engineered to shift sequentially to avoid a missed shift and the old knee into bars move. Adjusting your shift technique is really no big deal, and to avoid the problem all that is required is to lighten up on the pedals during the shift.

axmac

Thanks Buzzbomb,
I'm all for accuracy but perhaps you misunderstood, I didn't say indexing, and you are right, that wouldn't work because it wouldn't allow the shift in the hub to stop where it should, I said ratcheting, meaning trigger act as a ratchet wrench, indexing would not work. As for strength required, I wouldn't know because in all my enthusiasm about the guys bike, I forgot to ask if I could take it for a spin, but he didn't say he had any difficulty/strength issues with his shifting set-up. If I see him again I'll be sure to ask.. sorry if I caused any confusion..
Have a great day.
Ax

Buzzbomb

He had his converted? Huh. Seems like it would wear out the old thumb and finger, but then I only have experience with the twist style shifter. If you run across him again, ask him to post up here. Anyone running Rohloffs at this time just HAVE to be bike geeks... I'd love to see pics of the conversion.

KrisPistofferson

Is there a way to make the hub work with drop bars?

lala

f derailleurs!

Buzzbomb

There is a picture of a setup like that on the Harris site. The shifter is sized to work on mtb bars, but you could probably shim it to the end of a drop bar as an alternative to what they did on the Harris site... This thing (my hub) has been bomb-proof for 4 years now. 4 oil changes, 2 chains, zero drivetrain problems, chainsuck, thrown chain, broken chain, etc. If you can score one I highly reccomend it. They have acquired a real following among european tourers, many of whom have logged tens of thousands of trouble free miles on them.

Maelstrom 

They are also getting a following amongst downhillers too. Being built into bikes as a drivetrain (centered on the bike) rather than just as a hub. The biggest complain about them is the off set the centre point of the bike