cyclezealot

Anyone own a windstopper jacket.? This Windstopper jacket has an inner lining..Think it good for weather just above freezing? And are they pretty good for rain protection and wicking properties.

slvoid

They're great.
I have a softshell type version, meaning a thin inner fleece lining and a nylon waterresistant outer layer all laminated with windstopper in between.
I can wear it anywhere from 0 to 40 degrees, blocks out wind, rain, snow, sleet, etc. And it breathes a heck of a lot better than my goretex storm shell.

Boudicca

Agreed. I have a Marmot jacket with pit zips for extra ventilation, and it's absolutely awesome. I wear it to bike at any time (OK, I don't bike when the temperature goes below freezing so don't read too much into that one), and it's perfect for x-country skiing at any temperature too. Last winter I used it at minus 20C (sorry, not sure what that is in Fahrenheit), and it was perfect. Mine is a little fleecey on the outside, which has the disadvantage of leaving you looking like a snowman if you fall over in soft snow, but that's a small price to pay.

BenyBen

I also have that a marmot jacket (and pants) as well, but I'm not sure if it's the same as you jhq.

It's like this one , kind of a plastic jacket. It totaly blocks the rain, but I find this thing doesn't breathe and by the time I get to work I'm almost as wet from sweat.
When it's cold, I start sweating, and as my ride goes on it freezes me. I dunno if it's because of the marmot jacket, or because I'm not wearing the right clothes under it. Or perhaps cuz I have a tendency to sweat more then the average guy.

Phatman

that jacket might stop the wind, but "windstopper" is a brand name made by gore, the company that makes goretex. Its supposed to be windproof and breathable. that said, i have a jacket that is not windstopper, but polartec "wind pro" and I like it a lot. i've ridden in it in some pretty cold weather.

slvoid

Windstopper IS goretex. It's a thin version of goretex that's laminated between a face and inner fabric. Also, the seams aren't taped on a windstopper jacket so water can leak in through the seams.
Windpro and similar technologies use a tight fleece weave to block wind while windstopper's completely windproof. As always, you sacrafice breathability but windstopper jackets often have pocket and underarm vents.

Diggy18

I was just gonna ask about jackets. You really need something breathable, huh? I was wearing some DWR nylon jacket from Sierra-something, and I just sweat too much, even with all the vent zips open.

So I'm thinking that these regular goretex biking jackets are going to leave you pretty damp inside, too, unless it's really cold out, eh?

Boudicca

[QUOTE=BenyBen]I also have that a marmot jacket (and pants) as well, but I'm not sure if it's the same as you jhq.

It's like this one , kind of a plastic jacket. It totaly blocks the rain, but I find this thing doesn't breathe and by the time I get to work I'm almost as wet from sweat.

No -- mine is more like this one, except I think it's the woman's version. Blocks the wind, keeps me warm and it's amazingly breathable. You can just layer under it, and you are good to go.

https://www.sierratradingpost.com/pro...C31BADCB75FBB9

Erick L

Windstopper is not Gore-tex. It's made by Gore, who also makes Gore-tex.

I have a Gore windstopper jacket and it's one of the worst thing I ever bought.

1- If the windstopper layer is against your skin, it doesn't feel right. It's plasticky.
2- You can't take the windstopper off. You're stuck with it.
3- It's expensive
4- It doesn't breathe well
5- While it's warmer than a simple fleece, it's not as warm as a thinner fleece+windjacket. The windstopper layer being inside, the heat trapped in the fleece outside the windproof layer gets blown away easily. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a windproof layer, no?

The only good thing about it is that it's usually found in high-quality garments. I like it in gloves though... lotsa fleece to wipe the nose. Did I say it's expensive?

Windstopper fleece goes against the tried-and-true layering principle. I much prefer a thin fleece and a wind-jacket with zip-off sleeves. So many more venting options.

Flaneur

I like a pertex shell with a pile lining (www.buffalosystems.co.uk) or a thin goretex shell with very breathable warm layers beneath- usually thin ones , like those by Helly-Hansen, work best for me. The way my body works- how I heat up and perspire under different loads- windstopper is too clunky and sweaty, unless I'm standing still in a blizzard. (-and then I still prefer the other options.)

slvoid

The gore-tex membrane itself and the windstopper membrane itself is made of expanded polytetrafuoroethylene (kind of like teflon) and is hydrophobic with a lot of little pores to allow water vapor to escape but block liquid water.

You're right, the name "Windstopper" is not the name "Gore-tex" but chemically they're the same thing, only one "brand" is thinner than the other and the garment specifications state that while a gore-tex storm shell has to be taped and waterproofed and breatheable to a certain spec, the windstopper softshells do not.

Point is, don't expect windstopper to breathe like a fleece since it will breath more like goretex than a tightly woven fleece.

Erick L

Fleeces are made from soda bottles but nobody says they are the same thing. Gore doesn't claim waterproofness from their windstopper fabric. It doesn't stop water (the fabric, not just because of untaped seams), yet it breathes poorly.

From Gore website:

Why put a windproof fabric anywhere but on the outside? The fleece is there to trap heat and the windproof layer is there to keep the wind from taking the trapped heat away. Look at the illustration from Gore website, the wind goes through the fleece layer and is stopped by the windstopper layer... might as well wear the windstopper layer alone! Unfortunately, windstopper has to be laminated to some other fabric. To claim their fleece is warmer, Gore compares their fleece to non-windstopper fleece. Of course it's warmer, but it's no warmer than a cheap fleece and a cheapo-deluxe wind-jacket. Actually, with a normal wind jacket, you can get away with a much thinner fleece (or just a base layer) than a bulky windstopper fleece. Windstopper is also warmer in the sense that wearing a plastic is also warm, but not very comfortable or breathable (ok, I admit it breathes better than plastic).

Anyway, I don't like it.

bandaidman

being a year round flyfisherman i have found the best use of windstopper is when it is combined with fleece...it makes a warm but windproof garment (wind cuts right through fleece otherwise)

i have worn my fishing windstopper/fleece jackets a couple of times riding (made by orvis). they work well but are bulky and flap too much for road biking...commuting is a different story though.

i really do enjoy my windstopper gloves. they have a nylon windstopper shell and removable fleece inserts. they do great down into the 30s...then it is time for neoprene

slvoid

*WARNING, 3AM CENTURY ON 2 HOURS SLEEP RANT*

Your analogy is just about as wrong as me saying, there's iron in my blood, my bike is made of iron, therefore I am a bike.
A better analogy would be to compare a road spec porsche and a GT porsche. Both porsche 911's, same motor, same essential layout, tuned and toleranced differently in manufacturing.
Gore used to make windstopper shells (not windproof fleece as you know it now) alongside goretex shells.
Windstopper is the born again fabric that used to be known as "Activent." It doesn't claim to be Goretex because of marketting and manufacturing, not chemistry.
The reason why they rebranded it windstopper instead of Activent was that Activent, as you've said, breathed too poorly (being that it essentially was ePTFE, or goretex) and cost ended up almost the same as goretex (essentially a nonwaterpoof spec'ed goretex jacket at the same price). It was discovered by the mountaineering community that the only specification difference was that Activent did not require taped seams, waterproof battens for the hoods and cuffs, storm shields around the zippers, and protection for the ePTFE layer as mandatory. Plus mechanically, the windstopper membrane is, as I've said before, a THIN version of goretex. It can't pass the pressure test that gore does for its actual goretex fabric.
There's a good reason why gore doesn't claim waterproofness in their windstopper fabrics and that's because they're a supplier to manufacturers who don't have to build to the "waterproof" spec, the Gore mannequin tester could tell you more about that. I think the confusion here is that you're talking about a goretex jacket (which has to be built up of a whole host of features before Gore can *certify* the jacket with their shiny "guaranteed" emblem) and I'm talking the goretex material itself which only has a market name of Goretex (which is just the white teflon-like layer you see in 2-layer goretex jackets) but actually shares its properties with a wider range of products from Gore, including DryLOFT (which btw is also a windstopper version of "Goretex"). Actually the product literature for DryLOFT hints at this. If you can find it from Gore, I remember from discussions in the tent at 15000ft when I used to some light mountaineering, that right on the product literature of one of our tent mate's new sleeping bag was written something along the lines of, "DryLOFT is windproof, highly breathable, and provides protection against condensation and snow but due to design is not waterproof as the seams are not sealed." If they were sealed, then essentially you have a goretex bag that will pass the nonpressurized waterproof test.
If you know anything about computers, think, is a celeron a pentium? No a celeron is not a pentium, it says so right there, CEL-ER-RON. And the other one says PENT-I-UM. As far as I can tell, the celeron *IS*, that's right IS a PENTIUM with a lower L2 and FSB.

slvoid

The illustration is of a WindstopperMEMBRANE laminated to a piece of protective outer fabric. NOWHERE, ANYWHERE in there does it say "fleece." NOWHERE.
For all I care, the outer fabric could be a thin piece of nylon, which by sheer coincidence is how my arcteryx jacket is made. It doesn't get anymore exposed than that. And mine, like many of the newer designs, is laminted to STRETCHY backing. No more bulky flappy jackets. Fits like a glove. And the inside has fleece laminted to it, no more plasticky feel like the ones cheaper jackets have.

Actually I don't need a fleece jacket under a windstopper jacket. In fact, all I need is the base layer and a windstopper jacket and I'm good. In fact, some windstopper jackets have the lightest weight fleece avaliable (50 weight?) laminated to the inside of it, repeat, LIGHTEST. The whole windstopper jacket ends up being LIGHTER and LESS bulky than a "thin" fleece jacket inside another "wind-jacket."

If by "wind-jacket" you mean a cheap piece of nearly open weave nylon with the DWR on it, good luck when the rain hits. I also like the fact that I have one slim form fitting stretchy jacket that moves with me and fits me like a glove rather than two bulky jackets that I have to worry about. But, no, you're right. If you can't afford it, then you can get similar performance with just a thin fleece jacket and a wind-jacket. However, if you can afford it and want just one jacket to do it all, modern windstopper (Gore Industries), powershield (Malden Mills; which personally I like the feel of better), Dynamic and Drynamic (Schoeller Textiles), and the like, are all good choices for performance.

I rode with a guy today who had a $7000 Merlin titanium bike (next to my $500 aluminium) and he said to me, "I can probably get by with an aluminium with 105 or ultegra since they're essentially still derailleurs, shifters, and cogs but I thought to myself, if I could afford a full dura-ace setup, then why not go for it and never look back." It's kinda like that.

Faust

I went out yesterday, about 1hour 15min, in my new Gore Windstopper Function Jacket. There was a 7-14 mph wind, low 50°s, and sunny. I wore a light Izumi X-static base layer with the jacket, and cycling shorts and leg warmers (thought I would later remove the leg warmers, but did not need to). There was absolutely no clammy plastic feeling from the jacket. When I arrived home and changed I noticed the X-static base layer was damp, but not overly so. I felt quite comfortable throughout the ride, and of course the wind never got through.

The windstopper shell jacket has an open mesh lining, removable sleeves, two side zip pockets, a rear zip stuff pocket with straps inside that can be used to stuff the jacket into the pocket and attach it to the bike frame. The zips on the sleeves start in the underarm area and can be opened and used as vents, if you do not want to remove the sleeve entirely. The construction is first class all the way. Performancebike has a sale on this jacket and with a 20% coupon the price was about $96. In addition, Performancebike is throwing in a pair of Windstopper gloves at no additional charge, while supplies last. I highly recommend this cycling jacket.

Erick L

So slvoid, you have a windstopper layer, laminated to a nylon outer layer and a fleece inner layer. That's a lot of layer to stop the wind. Plus you wear a base layer. and if windstopper is the same as Goretex (haven't seen this on Gore website), it confirms as to why it breathes so poorly. My windjacket is just a nylon layer. It's much lighter,more breathable cheaper (but not "cheaply made") and it does just fine in light rain.

BTW, I do have a windstopper fleece and a Goretex rain jacket and I did look back. I hardly ever use them anymore.

slvoid

Because as you've said, goretex also breathes poorly. A lot of people hated activent because it was designed as an aerobic type fabric, which it should never have been in the first place. And for aerobic activities, activent would soon leave you soaked from the inside out.

And some people seem to prefer having the one jacket to do it all approach.

cyclezealot

how do we let them get away with their advertising...Latest Performance catalogue...Advertised Gore tex as a miracle sweat wicking material..Page 3 most recent Performance Catalogue.

slvoid

I suggest we stop comparing windstopper and goretex to thin panty hose nylon and plastic garbage bags, it's like comparing apples and oranges. The easiest way to stop this madness would be to buy em out so they're out of stock. That way they can't "fool" anyone else with their miracle advertising.

I remember my dad said, why would any idiot buy a camera/palm pilot cell phone when they can get a separate camera, palm pilot, and cell phone for so much cheaper and each probably does the job better.
And I said, do YOU want to carry a separate digital camera, cell phone, and palm pilot with you wherever you go?

Diggy18

I just want to deviate a bit here and be totally contrary.

Wind is good!

This morning, 44 degrees F with a good stiff breeze. In addition to hand, feet, and head warmers, I was wearing a Patagonia recycled-soda pop bottle thing (you know, it looks like fleece). It insulates extremely well, but the wind will blow through it like nothing - it is TRULY breathable. I also had on an underarmour t-shirt. It felt so good having the cool wind blow off all the excess heat I was building up.

I think I'm good with this thing down to freezing, as long as I have something good under it.

As for Goretex, I've only ever used a heavy-duty goretex jacket when backpacking in the mid-30s and lower. That stuff almost seems to be just a step above polyurethene in terms of breathability. I can't imagine using it cycling unless it's SO cold you're not going to sweat anyways. But then what's the point of a breathable fabric?!

slvoid

I remember being on rainier at around 14000 ft and during a break realized I was sweating so much it was overwhelming the goretex. I had a 2-layer jacket, goretex laminated to nylon with a mesh lining inside hanging freely off the goretex to protect it. There was a piece of velcro at the bottom of the mesh lining that I opened up and shook a good sized sheet of ice out. We had taken our packs off to walk around and cool off and the moisture was condensing on the inside of the goretex and freezing inside the jacket.
Gore-tex is good though if you have to be outside working in a downpour and it's 40 degrees.

Erick L

We agree on something. Goretex is good for cold rain or wet snow conditions and that's about it. I had the same thing happening to me... moisture freezing inside the jacket and I was only on a easy dayhike.

Haha... The question is, do you really need to carry any of these things at all?

slvoid

Yes.

Diggy18

Aww-man that's the worst when you're stop hiking and then you start freezing from your own sweat!

And yeah I agree about the rain in those temps. The goretex is good for that.