BMX to mini-velo conversion suggestions?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 389
Bikes: '93 Cannondale T-1000, '03 Cannondale R800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
BMX to mini-velo conversion suggestions?
I have a question for you... I'm thinking about taking a bmx and converting it into a higher, more-upright bike similar to a mini velo, like this:
https://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2004/g/skid10.htm
This bike, however,would have brakes and a front derailleur (I think a 2 speed bmx with a fd and tensioner is possible)
can anybody recommend a certain brand/decade of bmx to look for on CL and ebay? Something that is aluminum or 4130 cromo... decent BB heights for 170mm road cranks... and not too expensive? Budget for this project is around $100... conversion parts are going to be at least $35 of that.
Thanks
https://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2004/g/skid10.htm
This bike, however,would have brakes and a front derailleur (I think a 2 speed bmx with a fd and tensioner is possible)
can anybody recommend a certain brand/decade of bmx to look for on CL and ebay? Something that is aluminum or 4130 cromo... decent BB heights for 170mm road cranks... and not too expensive? Budget for this project is around $100... conversion parts are going to be at least $35 of that.
Thanks
Last edited by Pukeskywalker; 06-02-14 at 02:17 PM.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flagler Palm Coast, FL
Posts: 1,959
Bikes: 1986 Fuji Allegro 12 Spd; 2015 Bianchi Kuma 27.2 24 Spd; 1997 Fuji MX-200 21 Spd; 2010 Vilano SS/FG 46/16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Just me, but I restored a 20" BMX at the beginning of the year. I'm relatively disappointed in the speed of it and distances that I can ride it. But that has to be qualified too, I like you am an atb & roadie that decided to dabble into bmx. To me, the bmx I have is a non-foldable that behaves like a single speed foldable for what I use it for. In fact I see old retirees riding their Wal-Mart bmx's like foldables all the time. I think they ride theirs that way, because a foldable is still expensive and these bmx's are a cheap alternative. Throw a cruiser seat on one and it's comfortable, slow, you can even add a basket and do light grocery shopping.
The bmx frame is rock solid and that's an advantage because I'd think even a hi-ten bmx frame is going to be virtually indestructible provided you don't do the tricks. And that link you have, you aren't going to be jumping in a fixie's/roadie's crouch anyway. But the tires, frame and speed of the bmx is probably going to leave you thinking why you tried to make it a commuter ? I mean the fat tires aren't conducive to getting anywhere fast as well because of contact and rolling resistance of a 20" 2.10 or fatter tire. The bmx I have isn't anything I would ride out of the neighborhood. I'm fortunate that I have a couple of parks with trails that I don't have to load the bmx in a truck or suv to get to & ride. But again, that's as far as I'm going to ride the bike.
The bmx frame is rock solid and that's an advantage because I'd think even a hi-ten bmx frame is going to be virtually indestructible provided you don't do the tricks. And that link you have, you aren't going to be jumping in a fixie's/roadie's crouch anyway. But the tires, frame and speed of the bmx is probably going to leave you thinking why you tried to make it a commuter ? I mean the fat tires aren't conducive to getting anywhere fast as well because of contact and rolling resistance of a 20" 2.10 or fatter tire. The bmx I have isn't anything I would ride out of the neighborhood. I'm fortunate that I have a couple of parks with trails that I don't have to load the bmx in a truck or suv to get to & ride. But again, that's as far as I'm going to ride the bike.
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 389
Bikes: '93 Cannondale T-1000, '03 Cannondale R800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
fuji, do you have a picture of your bmx? I was expecting it to be slower than my road bike, but not super slow with this set up. The gallery I linked to above is a guy using his as a courier.. so that has to be worth something.
I was thinking slick tires, pumped up a little to high, and as aero of a seat set up as possible given the short seat-to-handlebar distance (I was thinking a layback seatpost to help with that one)
I know the ride would be really harsh on 20" wheels... factoring that in.
I was thinking slick tires, pumped up a little to high, and as aero of a seat set up as possible given the short seat-to-handlebar distance (I was thinking a layback seatpost to help with that one)
I know the ride would be really harsh on 20" wheels... factoring that in.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: near Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Your idea isn't that original. Huffy made a Pro Thunder Z2 in the 80's that was a two speed. What was kind of unique is the shifter. The right grip twisted like a motorcycle throttle to shift.
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 389
Bikes: '93 Cannondale T-1000, '03 Cannondale R800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
https://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/huffy/17815
I'm a little confused about the tension relief happening on the top on the chain... I'm guessing that portion of the tensioner was fixed to the frame and stationary.
Edit: I think the bmxmuseum guy has his derailleur set up wrong, it should look like this:
https://i616.photobucket.com/albums/t...s/100_2516.jpg
Last edited by Pukeskywalker; 06-02-14 at 02:22 PM.
#6
n00b
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,397
Bikes: Surly Karate Monkey, Twin Six Standard Rando
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times
in
273 Posts
I would look for an old race frame with a "euro" bottom bracket. that's a standard BB for road/mtb. it will be the best thing to make it compatible with a double-ring road crank.
the hard part will the chain tension. you can't put a rear derailleur on a bmx bike easily. you might be able to use a der hanger from a cheap bike with semi-horizontal dropouts. also, how do you plan to put cable stops on the frame for the FD?
I think your best bet is to get a long bmx frame (a 21" top tube is considered pretty long) and run it as a single-speed with a tall seatpost (qr clamp for ease of storage) and some tall bars and run it as a single-speed. bmx frames are spaced at 110mm, so a 130mm road hub or 135mm mtb/hybrid hub will not fit in your frame. the FD fitting will be even more difficult.
the hard part will the chain tension. you can't put a rear derailleur on a bmx bike easily. you might be able to use a der hanger from a cheap bike with semi-horizontal dropouts. also, how do you plan to put cable stops on the frame for the FD?
I think your best bet is to get a long bmx frame (a 21" top tube is considered pretty long) and run it as a single-speed with a tall seatpost (qr clamp for ease of storage) and some tall bars and run it as a single-speed. bmx frames are spaced at 110mm, so a 130mm road hub or 135mm mtb/hybrid hub will not fit in your frame. the FD fitting will be even more difficult.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Done it:
It's totally doable and the the bike rides really well. (Not to mention a great conversation starter)
Mine started off as a low end kids bike I picked up for $10. ( I later found it might have been a Formula One bmx).
I ripped everything apart, installed a euro bb converter, put on 165mm cranks and 451mm wheels.
Because my headset's inside diameter was 21.1mm (which a lot of bmx are), I had a really hard time finding a long quill stem. Finally settled on a quill stem extender.
It's really nimble, and not that different from riding a road bike. My longest ride was a 70km round-trip from Baltmore to Anapolis. A plus is I've packed it into a cardboard box within airline's regulation size, so I can take it on trips with me!
It's totally doable and the the bike rides really well. (Not to mention a great conversation starter)
Mine started off as a low end kids bike I picked up for $10. ( I later found it might have been a Formula One bmx).
I ripped everything apart, installed a euro bb converter, put on 165mm cranks and 451mm wheels.
Because my headset's inside diameter was 21.1mm (which a lot of bmx are), I had a really hard time finding a long quill stem. Finally settled on a quill stem extender.
It's really nimble, and not that different from riding a road bike. My longest ride was a 70km round-trip from Baltmore to Anapolis. A plus is I've packed it into a cardboard box within airline's regulation size, so I can take it on trips with me!
#8
missing in action
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,483
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times
in
29 Posts
An acquaintance of mine fitted a bmx bike with a long seat post similar to the velospace bike. He says it's very easy to lock up the rear wheel due to the way his weight is distributed.
Cool project though, be sure to follow up with your progress,
Cool project though, be sure to follow up with your progress,
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flagler Palm Coast, FL
Posts: 1,959
Bikes: 1986 Fuji Allegro 12 Spd; 2015 Bianchi Kuma 27.2 24 Spd; 1997 Fuji MX-200 21 Spd; 2010 Vilano SS/FG 46/16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
fuji, do you have a picture of your bmx? I was expecting it to be slower than my road bike, but not super slow with this set up. The gallery I linked to above is a guy using his as a courier.. so that has to be worth something.
I was thinking slick tires, pumped up a little to high, and as aero of a seat set up as possible given the short seat-to-handlebar distance (I was thinking a layback seatpost to help with that one)
I know the ride would be really harsh on 20" wheels... factoring that in.
I was thinking slick tires, pumped up a little to high, and as aero of a seat set up as possible given the short seat-to-handlebar distance (I was thinking a layback seatpost to help with that one)
I know the ride would be really harsh on 20" wheels... factoring that in.
https://www.bikesdetails.info/Haro_Ba...l_X1_2002.html
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flagler Palm Coast, FL
Posts: 1,959
Bikes: 1986 Fuji Allegro 12 Spd; 2015 Bianchi Kuma 27.2 24 Spd; 1997 Fuji MX-200 21 Spd; 2010 Vilano SS/FG 46/16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
That Huffy Pro Thunder Z2, 20 x 2.125 wheels, 32T/40T front with a 13T on the rear. GI is only 61.5 in the high gear, 42.9 for the low gear:
https://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/huffy/37409
The 44T/16T and 20" setup I have is 55 GI. Most new bmx are 25T/9T with 20" tires that's 55.6 GI. Special_k going 70 km round trip that's 43.5 miles, I'd like to know how long that took, because that kind of mileage on a 20" bike, I doubt I'd even try that if I were still a pre-teen or even teenager ? I'm impressed, must be an animal cranking that bike long distance like that. Heck of a commitment to go 20+ miles away from home in one direction. Because once you're there, it's 20+ miles back. But I guess if one could get the GI to approach 44/18 and 700C wheels (that's roughly 63-65 GI), maybe it's not as hard as I think it would be ? More like running an 26" atb at a lower gear setup for a couple of hours ? The 24" wheel bmx with 25T/9T is 66.7 GI. That's why I suggested that.
https://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/huffy/37409
The 44T/16T and 20" setup I have is 55 GI. Most new bmx are 25T/9T with 20" tires that's 55.6 GI. Special_k going 70 km round trip that's 43.5 miles, I'd like to know how long that took, because that kind of mileage on a 20" bike, I doubt I'd even try that if I were still a pre-teen or even teenager ? I'm impressed, must be an animal cranking that bike long distance like that. Heck of a commitment to go 20+ miles away from home in one direction. Because once you're there, it's 20+ miles back. But I guess if one could get the GI to approach 44/18 and 700C wheels (that's roughly 63-65 GI), maybe it's not as hard as I think it would be ? More like running an 26" atb at a lower gear setup for a couple of hours ? The 24" wheel bmx with 25T/9T is 66.7 GI. That's why I suggested that.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I have a 53t chainring and a 16t freewheel in the back, on 451mm tires = 65.9 gear inches
I don't remember exactly how long I took, but probably around 3.5 hours. I had to admit I was dead tired on my way back though.
I'm putting some gears on it this summer.
I don't remember exactly how long I took, but probably around 3.5 hours. I had to admit I was dead tired on my way back though.
I'm putting some gears on it this summer.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,095
Bikes: Too many....................
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
6 Posts
Get one of these https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/nano.htm
__________________
Speed Uno
Dawes Kingpin 2speed
Speed Uno
Dawes Kingpin 2speed
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flagler Palm Coast, FL
Posts: 1,959
Bikes: 1986 Fuji Allegro 12 Spd; 2015 Bianchi Kuma 27.2 24 Spd; 1997 Fuji MX-200 21 Spd; 2010 Vilano SS/FG 46/16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Get one of these https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/nano.htm
https://www.everybicycletire.com/Shopping/c-15-20.aspx
These definitely are the Shetland ponies of commuting.
Funny, the more I look around the area and see others using bmx as alternatives for commuting transportation, I see retirees using their bmx's for a cheap alternative to a folder. Then I see the young hood gangsta's riding their bmx's for short commutes. They probably see me as some where in between ? Or maybe they just don't see me or give it any thought ?
Last edited by fuji86; 04-27-11 at 11:56 PM.
#15
Senior Member
here I was thinking I had an original Idea and then I come across this.
#16
Full Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 341
Bikes: Windsor TimeLine; Linus Gaston 3; Sears Free Spirit
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked 99 Times
in
46 Posts
You might want to try this to get the two-speed gearing, assuming you can lace up a wheel using one. I know that they've become common on folders again, and on urban commuter bikes like the Torker KB2. Worksman has them available on their bikes also.
https://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/7/id/55
https://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/7/id/55
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: near Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
wow. Crazy chain line too..
1982 Huffy Pro Thunder Z2 - BMXmuseum.com
I'm a little confused about the tension relief happening on the top on the chain... I'm guessing that portion of the tensioner was fixed to the frame and stationary.
Edit: I think the bmxmuseum guy has his derailleur set up wrong, it should look like this:
https://i616.photobucket.com/albums/t...s/100_2516.jpg
1982 Huffy Pro Thunder Z2 - BMXmuseum.com
I'm a little confused about the tension relief happening on the top on the chain... I'm guessing that portion of the tensioner was fixed to the frame and stationary.
Edit: I think the bmxmuseum guy has his derailleur set up wrong, it should look like this:
https://i616.photobucket.com/albums/t...s/100_2516.jpg
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Angus, Scotland
Posts: 406
Bikes: Many
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I have adapted BMX and kids bikes into Mini velos.
Heres my Townend Megaforce 1 F1 BMX that I have.
F1 BMX was a short lived race series, for geared BMXs. A few manufacturers built bikes for it. Ive seen photos of a bike with full motorbike style fairing.
Try to get a bike that has a 25.4mm diameter seat pin. So that the seat tube has an outside diameter of 28.6mm. So you can easily mount a front mech. I tried to fit a front mech to a bike that had a thinner diameter seat tube, using home made shims. Never worked.
Front mechs are rated for a certain angle of the seat tube to chainstays. Bmxs with high BBs often have the chainstays pointing down to the wheel axle. where as bigger wheeled bikes have the bb lower than the wheel axle. It might cause problems.
You can fit internally geared hubs to BMXs quite easily. Shopper/ folding bikes often have the same wheel size, and the hub width is similar. Well for the old/low end 3 speed bikes.
Modern...er new school BMX, well the better models, might have a cassette hub. some have a really small cog. 9 tooth. And are to be used with a front cog of around 25 tooth. So giving a near 3 times gear ratio. Over 50 gear inches. I don't think theres any reason they cant be used with bigger front cogs, to get higher gear ratios. Might have problems using them with a tensioner. The hubs will likely have a thick, 14mm diameter spindle, instead of the older 9 to 10mm...er 3/8" diameter. So would need a suitable frame to fit, probably a modern one, upto about 10 years old. Older frames might be able to be filed, ground out to fit a thicker axle in the drop outs.
Ive had the idea of fitting road or MTB chainrings to a BMX crank. Ive not seen it done. Maybe theres problems. I thought one of those solid chainrings could be modded, cut off the teeth so that the diameter is less than the new chainrings. Then drill the holes in it for the chainring bolts. So would get round the cost of changing the whole cranks.
If you do want to change the cranks. You can get adaptor axles. That have all the bearings and cups that the BMX axle had. They have a square taper on them, to fit 3 piece crank arms. There ok. Im gonna fit that to my Townsend. But a lot of crank manufacturers are making cranks that don't have square tapers. You can get adaptor cups. That push into the BB shell. And have the standard English BB threading in them. I had a pair of cups from DMR, never got round to using them tho
If your wanting to fit a chain tensioner, or a rear mech to tension the chain. You can get a claw, that bolts onto the axle. Often seen on cheap bikes that don't have the gear hanger as part of the drop out. Ive managed to fit a claw backwards, so it more easily fitted on a rear facing drop out.
Modern multispeed bikes often have a removable gear hanger. So if you bash the mech it doesn't damage the frame. Theres seemingly hundreds of these. some might suit being bolted to a BMX drop out.
Heres my Townend Megaforce 1 F1 BMX that I have.
F1 BMX was a short lived race series, for geared BMXs. A few manufacturers built bikes for it. Ive seen photos of a bike with full motorbike style fairing.
Try to get a bike that has a 25.4mm diameter seat pin. So that the seat tube has an outside diameter of 28.6mm. So you can easily mount a front mech. I tried to fit a front mech to a bike that had a thinner diameter seat tube, using home made shims. Never worked.
Front mechs are rated for a certain angle of the seat tube to chainstays. Bmxs with high BBs often have the chainstays pointing down to the wheel axle. where as bigger wheeled bikes have the bb lower than the wheel axle. It might cause problems.
You can fit internally geared hubs to BMXs quite easily. Shopper/ folding bikes often have the same wheel size, and the hub width is similar. Well for the old/low end 3 speed bikes.
Modern...er new school BMX, well the better models, might have a cassette hub. some have a really small cog. 9 tooth. And are to be used with a front cog of around 25 tooth. So giving a near 3 times gear ratio. Over 50 gear inches. I don't think theres any reason they cant be used with bigger front cogs, to get higher gear ratios. Might have problems using them with a tensioner. The hubs will likely have a thick, 14mm diameter spindle, instead of the older 9 to 10mm...er 3/8" diameter. So would need a suitable frame to fit, probably a modern one, upto about 10 years old. Older frames might be able to be filed, ground out to fit a thicker axle in the drop outs.
Ive had the idea of fitting road or MTB chainrings to a BMX crank. Ive not seen it done. Maybe theres problems. I thought one of those solid chainrings could be modded, cut off the teeth so that the diameter is less than the new chainrings. Then drill the holes in it for the chainring bolts. So would get round the cost of changing the whole cranks.
If you do want to change the cranks. You can get adaptor axles. That have all the bearings and cups that the BMX axle had. They have a square taper on them, to fit 3 piece crank arms. There ok. Im gonna fit that to my Townsend. But a lot of crank manufacturers are making cranks that don't have square tapers. You can get adaptor cups. That push into the BB shell. And have the standard English BB threading in them. I had a pair of cups from DMR, never got round to using them tho
If your wanting to fit a chain tensioner, or a rear mech to tension the chain. You can get a claw, that bolts onto the axle. Often seen on cheap bikes that don't have the gear hanger as part of the drop out. Ive managed to fit a claw backwards, so it more easily fitted on a rear facing drop out.
Modern multispeed bikes often have a removable gear hanger. So if you bash the mech it doesn't damage the frame. Theres seemingly hundreds of these. some might suit being bolted to a BMX drop out.
Last edited by alecw35; 06-08-14 at 01:56 AM. Reason: spelling mistake