septacycles

I have a very large 62 cm steel raleigh grand prix frame I want to restore.

The other day my friend pointed out that the weld on the seatstay where it meets the dropout is either damages or it was a bad weld in the first place.

I forgot to take pictures but will upload soon.

My question... can I have someone spot weld that section of the bike to stabilize the connection between the drop out and seat stay?

There is no play... essentialy I can not move the seatstay from the lug but I'm concerend that if a heavery rider rode it the weld in that area would get worse and potentially fail.

any advice is appreciated.

Live Wire 

Is the dropout welded or brazed?
Too hard to say much of anything without pictures.

septacycles

I believe it is welded... bike is from the 70s. I may also not be clear on the difference between brazed and welded. I will try and get pictures up soon.

ultraman6970

Never seen one welded unless it was fixed before using arc welding or something, that is pretty much what was used at home back in the day.

unterhausen

pretty sure it's brazed. A lot of those bikes had really horrendous workmanship. If it's not cracked, I wouldn't worry

septacycles

Okay finaly got pictures... Its really difficult to tell if the connection between the seat stay and drop out is stable. I"m planning on refurbishing this bike and selling it. What is my best course of action to make sure the frame is safe to ride.

cycle_maven

Looks like a p*ss-poor job of brazing at the factory. Raleigh wasn't known for quality brazing in those years. It doesn't look damaged; most of the strength is where the little tang on the dropout goes up into the seat stay, and most of the force is perpendicular to the seat stay. It's probably not dangerous, but it would bug the heck out of me, waiting for it to fail. Fixing it would ruin the paint, and ya gotta be sure the bike is worth repainting.

ultraman6970

Looks out of the socket to me. The seat stay moves???

septacycles

no the seat stay does not really move... is this damage or the result of poor brazing. Either way is it rideable as is or what can I do to strengthen this area. I don't care about damaging the paint in that area as long as the frame is safe to ride.

Thanks for looking and the advice

unterhausen

this is the kind of workmanship that makes me wonder why anyone would collect Ralieghs, other than as an example of poor workmanship. I don't really understand their level of quality control in those days, it was just ridiculous. Not only was the joint not fully brazed, but they apparently forced the seat stay on and broke the tube. This would almost be forgivable if they had then filled the joint with brazing material

You didn't show us the braze at the front of the dropout, if it is solid I wouldn't worry about it. I wouldn't use the bike to carry a load, who knows what else is wrong with it.

ultraman6970

I agree with you, some models are pretty good (specially the ones that carlton built for them as the professional track one) but the cheap stuff always been pretty ugly.

septacycles

the view from the front if very similar to the view from the back. What if I got my friend to fill the gaps with brazing material would that help or should I just get rid of the frame and sell it as is.

Thanks

Ian

fietsbob

Have to get the old drop out to do a good job of cleaning up , metal prep, for a tidy job.
heat , pull out the dropout, then clean the metal surfaces , flux, etc..

big blob of brass, after burning off paint , and cleaning some,
may kludge it together adequately for transport..

given its a generic mass market bike..
stamped dropout puts in a down the range point

unterhausen

I am not sure what to advise, although i don't think that a repair is economic. As fietsbob says, you really have to take things apart to clean it up enough to do any good. And that's a can of worms, particularly since Raleigh pre-broke the tube. I would consider commuting on it since it isn't likely to fall apart. The other option is to sell it with full disclosure.

septacycles

I'm fine with keeping it as it is and refurbishing the bike to sell as long as it is safe to ride as the frame is now. My guess is this frame was ridden quite a bit as a commuter but has not been ridden in the last 15 years.

unterhausen

the big question as far as safety goes is how well the seat stay is connected to the seat lug. If that's good, and you don't start overloading a rear rack, you are good to go. Just keep an eye on it

septacycles

Is there any way to tell if its a good connection or not... either while riding or not?

fietsbob

Not from here , in person, Maybe..