View Poll Results: Helmet wearing habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
178
10.66%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
94
5.63%
I've always worn a helmet
648
38.80%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
408
24.43%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
342
20.48%
Voters: 1670. You may not vote on this poll
The helmet thread
#1751
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,261
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4246 Post(s)
Liked 1,351 Times
in
937 Posts
Steel rims are smooth polished chrome to protect against corrosion. A tiny bit of moisture acts like a lubricant. Both of these reduce the friction needed for effective braking. Steel was used because making sufficiently strong rims/wheels out of aluminum was more expensive.
Last edited by njkayaker; 03-05-12 at 09:37 AM.
#1752
cowboy, steel horse, etc
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The hot spot.
Posts: 44,828
Bikes: everywhere
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12762 Post(s)
Liked 7,675 Times
in
4,072 Posts
If you've never ridden 70s bike boom gaspipe with steel rims, you'd likely be appalled at how poorly those brakes work in dry conditions.
Even dual pivot brakes provided a huge braking improvement as they hit mass market road bikes in the 1990s.
#1753
Senior Member
They would, of course, be wrong in saying this. Certainly, no respectable health professional would say that anything would "prevent" strokes.
Because you won't get why your statement is funny: you keep saying (paraphrasing a bit) that helmets are worthless because no one claims they "prevent" concussions!
#1754
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,261
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4246 Post(s)
Liked 1,351 Times
in
937 Posts
Again, this is wrong. Strokes happen even in people who exercise regularly.
What exercise (and other things) do is reduce the rate of strokes. Nothing "prevents" them.
#1755
Senior Member
I hope I'm not offending anyone by not being as articulate as some would like me to be.
I think the point is still valid though. Aerobic exercise reduces the rate of brain injury with greater success than helmet usage does.
(and the numbers of stroke victims are far greater than the numbers of bare headed brain damaged cyclist)
( - did I say that right? - )
I think the point is still valid though. Aerobic exercise reduces the rate of brain injury with greater success than helmet usage does.
(and the numbers of stroke victims are far greater than the numbers of bare headed brain damaged cyclist)
( - did I say that right? - )
#1756
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,261
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4246 Post(s)
Liked 1,351 Times
in
937 Posts
I think the point is still valid though. Aerobic exercise reduces the rate of brain injury with greater success than helmet usage does.
(and the numbers of stroke victims are far greater than the numbers of bare headed brain damaged cyclist)
( - did I say that right? - )
(and the numbers of stroke victims are far greater than the numbers of bare headed brain damaged cyclist)
( - did I say that right? - )
And, of course, by itself, this statement (being true) really doesn't address the question of whether helmets work or whether they are (or can be) useful.
Note that I'm only criticizing your use of "prevent" for arguing for something (applied to strokes) and against something else (applied to concussions).
Last edited by njkayaker; 03-05-12 at 12:43 PM.
#1757
Senior Member
Some people are afraid of that which helps them
Last edited by closetbiker; 03-05-12 at 12:59 PM.
#1758
Geck, wo ist mein Fahrrad
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Front Range
Posts: 715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
My favorite pro helmet advice was a claim someone made that, they had fallen 3 times at 10 mph or less and the helmet they were wearing was destroyed, thus it had saved their life.
First, if you're falling that often at that speed, cycling isn't for you.
Second, if your hitting your head every time you fall, maybe you need to learn how to fall.
Third, just because your helmet turned into popcorn it doesn't mean your fate was death, it doesn't even prove a concussion was imminent. It proves helmets are designed to explode.
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti-helmet, I'm anti lie to you to get you to wear what we tell you is safer.
We've all seen a child riding a bike with a slipped helmet completely covering the kids eyes, right? self-fulfilling prophesy at work.
Helmets have their place, as do padded gloves, bike control, being aware of your surroundings and seeing.
First, if you're falling that often at that speed, cycling isn't for you.
Second, if your hitting your head every time you fall, maybe you need to learn how to fall.
Third, just because your helmet turned into popcorn it doesn't mean your fate was death, it doesn't even prove a concussion was imminent. It proves helmets are designed to explode.
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti-helmet, I'm anti lie to you to get you to wear what we tell you is safer.
We've all seen a child riding a bike with a slipped helmet completely covering the kids eyes, right? self-fulfilling prophesy at work.
Helmets have their place, as do padded gloves, bike control, being aware of your surroundings and seeing.
#1759
Senior Member
Yeah, it's funny how a number of posters don't answer questions. I'm sure we all have our reasons for doing so but I don't think you can say I haven't answered this question. I believe I said the data is in the tables, that the numbers of the different groups of cyclists observed were different.
As I posted earlier, I can accept if you don't agree with this. Heck, there still a number of people who don't agree helmet laws reduce the number of cyclists, but that's another matter.
Speaking of avoiding questions, I don't think you've answered my question about if you think a sense of fear of injury while riding bikes keeps people from riding bikes.
As I posted earlier, I can accept if you don't agree with this. Heck, there still a number of people who don't agree helmet laws reduce the number of cyclists, but that's another matter.
Speaking of avoiding questions, I don't think you've answered my question about if you think a sense of fear of injury while riding bikes keeps people from riding bikes.
See? There's a reason. I asked, but you just didn't see it. People miss stuff all the time.
Of course you know we agree about the culture of fear stuff and I'm not surprised you agree fear keeps people from riding.
It seems the disention centers on what it is that whips up fear in riders or potential riders. Near mention of possibilities? Experiences?
Of course you know we agree about the culture of fear stuff and I'm not surprised you agree fear keeps people from riding.
It seems the disention centers on what it is that whips up fear in riders or potential riders. Near mention of possibilities? Experiences?
You ask me about my claim that you are fearmongering and I reply with a specific post citation; I ask you where you cited three "experts" in this thread -- your claim -- and you dissemble. Where, exactly, did you post opinions of three experts regarding the study in question in this thread...?
You seem more than willing to ease debate into marginally related topics; less than willing to engage in honest answers to relevant questions...
#1760
Senior Member
It's also easier to come to an understanding when the parties pay attention to what has been posted...
#1761
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,261
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4246 Post(s)
Liked 1,351 Times
in
937 Posts
Many people manage to get lots of "aerobic exercise" riding with a helmet (which means they are not necessarily mutually exclusive).
I don't know but I suspect that most people discouraged from riding by MHL weren't getting much "aerobic exercise" benefit from the riding they were doing. (And no one here is talking about MHL, which means that any discouragement due to MHL is some other discussion.)
#1762
Senior Member
... Many people manage to get lots of "aerobic exercise" riding with a helmet (which means they are not necessarily mutually exclusive).
I don't know but I suspect that most people discouraged from riding by MHL weren't getting much "aerobic exercise" benefit from the riding they were doing...
I don't know but I suspect that most people discouraged from riding by MHL weren't getting much "aerobic exercise" benefit from the riding they were doing...
I'm sure the evidence that says being active reduces the chances of brain injury via stroke is much more reliable than the evidence that says wearing a helmet does the same
Last edited by closetbiker; 03-05-12 at 03:35 PM.
#1763
Bicikli Huszár
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 2,116
Bikes: '95 Novara Randonee
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Steel rims are smooth polished chrome to protect against corrosion. A tiny bit of moisture acts like a lubricant. Both of these reduce the friction needed for effective braking. Steel was used because making sufficiently strong rims/wheels out of aluminum was more expensive.
Here it's the wet primarily. My Raleigh Sports with brakes applied in the wet is barely different than it is without brakes applied.
If you've never ridden 70s bike boom gaspipe with steel rims, you'd likely be appalled at how poorly those brakes work in dry conditions.
Even dual pivot brakes provided a huge braking improvement as they hit mass market road bikes in the 1990s.
If you've never ridden 70s bike boom gaspipe with steel rims, you'd likely be appalled at how poorly those brakes work in dry conditions.
Even dual pivot brakes provided a huge braking improvement as they hit mass market road bikes in the 1990s.
#1764
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Warwick, UK
Posts: 1,049
Bikes: 2000-something 3 speed commuter, 1990-something Raleigh Scorpion
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
My favorite pro helmet advice was a claim someone made that, they had fallen 3 times at 10 mph or less and the helmet they were wearing was destroyed, thus it had saved their life.
First, if you're falling that often at that speed, cycling isn't for you.
Second, if your hitting your head every time you fall, maybe you need to learn how to fall.
Third, just because your helmet turned into popcorn it doesn't mean your fate was death, it doesn't even prove a concussion was imminent. It proves helmets are designed to explode.
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti-helmet, I'm anti lie to you to get you to wear what we tell you is safer.
We've all seen a child riding a bike with a slipped helmet completely covering the kids eyes, right? self-fulfilling prophesy at work.
Helmets have their place, as do padded gloves, bike control, being aware of your surroundings and seeing.
First, if you're falling that often at that speed, cycling isn't for you.
Second, if your hitting your head every time you fall, maybe you need to learn how to fall.
Third, just because your helmet turned into popcorn it doesn't mean your fate was death, it doesn't even prove a concussion was imminent. It proves helmets are designed to explode.
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti-helmet, I'm anti lie to you to get you to wear what we tell you is safer.
We've all seen a child riding a bike with a slipped helmet completely covering the kids eyes, right? self-fulfilling prophesy at work.
Helmets have their place, as do padded gloves, bike control, being aware of your surroundings and seeing.
#1765
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Actually on the bikes that I converted from chrome-plated rims to aluminum I found that the dry braking performance got marginally worse, but it was still more than adequate. But the braking performance in wet conditions was greatly improved. Wet chrome rims frequently didn't seem to be braking at all until the wheels had gone around once or twice to let the brake pads start drying them.
#1766
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,261
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4246 Post(s)
Liked 1,351 Times
in
937 Posts
most people don't get much in the way of aerobic exercise
I'm sure the evidence that says being active reduces the chances of brain injury via stroke is much more reliable than the evidence that says wearing a helmet does the same
I'm sure the evidence that says being active reduces the chances of brain injury via stroke is much more reliable than the evidence that says wearing a helmet does the same
Helmets might discourage riding but it would seems likely that most the people they might discourage don't ride enough to get any "aerobic exercise" benefit.
And, of course, any discouragement that MHL might induce is something else entirely. And next-to no one here is for MHL anyway.
Last edited by njkayaker; 03-06-12 at 07:25 AM. Reason: clearly, the exercise we are discussing is cycling
#1767
Senior Member
I answered specifically when you asked where I said something.
You refuse to do so.
#1770
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Helmets might discourage riding but it would seems likely that most the people they might discourage don't ride enough to get any "aerobic exercise" benefit.
And, of course, any discouragement that MHL might induce is something else entirely. And next-to no one here is for MHL anyway.
And, of course, any discouragement that MHL might induce is something else entirely. And next-to no one here is for MHL anyway.
But someone who is discouraged from being even a casual cyclist is then unlikely to later become an enthusiast. And while cycling among adults doesn't seem to be diminishing in the US, I see far fewer children cycling now than even 15 years ago - and there are many more jurisdictions that have MHLs for children than for adults. Will those who never did much cycling as kids be as likely to even think about becoming cyclists as adults?
#1773
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,261
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4246 Post(s)
Liked 1,351 Times
in
937 Posts
And while cycling among adults doesn't seem to be diminishing in the US, I see far fewer children cycling now than even 15 years ago - and there are many more jurisdictions that have MHLs for children than for adults. Will those who never did much cycling as kids be as likely to even think about becoming cyclists as adults?
Interestingly, not many people seem to object to children wearing helmets (or child-specific MHL's)!
Last edited by njkayaker; 03-05-12 at 07:42 PM.
#1774
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,261
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4246 Post(s)
Liked 1,351 Times
in
937 Posts
Kind of obvious but so what? There doesn't seem to be any clear personal downside to using a helmet even if the benefits don't have "reliable" evidence to support it.
Last edited by njkayaker; 03-05-12 at 07:43 PM.
#1775
Senior Member
This compared to the significant upside to increased health benefits.
Last edited by closetbiker; 03-05-12 at 09:52 PM.