Brooks... AGAIN!
12-27-04, 05:00 PM
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Brooks... AGAIN!
Sorry for adding to all the redundant Brooks posts, but I am looking to break in my new X-mas B17, and the one I got (via ebay) didn't come with Proofide. I know the company touts it as the only saddle conditioner one should use on their saddles, small wonder as you have to buy it from them. I, on the other hand, wish to either make or buy a very similar product to use on my saddle so I am not bound to buying Proofide. Does anyone have a clue as to the ingredients in Proofide? Searches have come up negative. I would be especially interested in a list of ingredients in order of most-first. I am also interested in names of products very similar to Proofide. I don't need advice on other methods of breaking my saddle in, I am doing it the traditional way. And no, motor oil isn't a saddle conditioner...
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
12-27-04, 05:05 PM
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hello
Proofide is usually not included with your saddle purchase. Why do you not wish to buy Proofide? A small can of this stuff will last you for years...
12-27-04, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fixer
Proofide is usually not included with your saddle purchase. Why do you not wish to buy Proofide? A small can of this stuff will last you for years...
12-27-04, 06:08 PM
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Any wax based leather conditioner will work just fine. Snoseal, Hubbard's, some shizzle from Montana whose name I can't remember at the moment. Shedon Brown recommends soaking the saddle in neatsfoot oil but this seems extreme to me. If you wear leather boots, you've probably already got something suficient in the closet.
12-27-04, 10:28 PM
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Do it the natural way--I am. Bought the Team Pro in the spring, and things are barely beginning to soften. After 1000 miles, it (the seat) is starting to feel like one with me. Only when it has been sufficiently broken in will I reluctantly apply Obenauf's conditioner (which I still have in the container). Though I am a purist, I am one with a broken @##. Natural: the only way.
Cheers
Cheers
12-28-04, 09:37 AM
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Hi Tourbike, a wax based leather product will do just fine, I used Proofhide, but in the future I will just use Snow Seal. The magic of a Brooks is that the leather is stretched from the front to rear of the saddle, without middle padding. So the suspension of the leather and the flex of the seat rails gives a comfortable ride. When you soak the whole thing in Neats Foot oil or motor oil, it completely looses its shape and no longer works as intended. The "Breaking-In" part is the custom butt shape it aquires over time where your sit-bones make contact with the seat. To speed up this break-in period without ruining the suspension aspect, turn the seat over and saturate the leather with the Snow seal only where your sit-bones make contact with the leather, not the whole thing. Use a heat gun or a hair dryer to heat up the leather and apply the wax, keep adding wax til it will take no more. This is what I did and it worked great, no saddle problems on my 5,100 mile cross country this past summer. The saddle looks brand new, the shape is perfect, it works exactly as intended and is very comfortable because it fits me.
I think this is the info you were looking for. Greg
I think this is the info you were looking for. Greg
12-28-04, 10:01 AM
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The "natural way" is why most Brooks saddles end up chucked in the garage being rightly regarded as instruments of torture.I have just conditioned my latest saddle (B17) and have conditioned around 40 others so that they are comfortable and waterproofed BEFORE riding. Forget oil and neatsfoot oil. Most of all Brit tourers ride Brooks and have done so since they were first made. The leather dressing you need is "Hydrophane" as used and sold by saddlers (horses that is). Use the sparingly on the underside of the saddle and then wait some hours untill you see how for it has penetrated before re-applying. "Proofhide" does NOT condition saddles and does not penetrate the outer top finish. It merely keeps the leather from cracking around the rivets but , sadly, does not prolong saddle life.If you want info on the full process feel free to email me and I will attach an article I wrote on the subject.Do it---I have a Brooks which is 35yrs old and is still as good as new--no, better!
12-28-04, 10:31 AM
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If you can get out to Riverside, you can stop by my place and I'll let you use some of my Proofide for free.
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12-28-04, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanmonk
Do it the natural way--I am. Bought the Team Pro in the spring, and things are barely beginning to soften. After 1000 miles, it (the seat) is starting to feel like one with me. Only when it has been sufficiently broken in will I reluctantly apply Obenauf's conditioner (which I still have in the container). Though I am a purist, I am one with a broken @##. Natural: the only way.
Cheers
Cheers
12-28-04, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by tourbike
I guess I just object to having to order it, especially when things like this can easily be made...
I am all for do it yourselfing everything possible, but a small sample bottle of Obenauf's goes a long long way for one saddle, and is only $3. Unless you open a saddle conditioning store, the cost of the time you spend making the equivalent of $3 to $8 worth of wax will far exceed the retail price. I'd rather use that time learning how to make a frame, or riding. But all the best to you.
12-28-04, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelCommuter
If you can make a suitable wax-based substitute, that is wonderful. There is nothing wrong with the company suggesting you buy a maintenance product from them, though. The saddle is handmade to be ridden everyday for a quarter century or more, and they have an interest in making sure you maintain it well. Saddles (particularly leather saddles) are perhaps the most noticed component on a bike, and they want it to look good and comfortable to others, and they know their stuff works fine.
I am all for do it yourselfing everything possible, but a small sample bottle of Obenauf's goes a long long way for one saddle, and is only $3. Unless you open a saddle conditioning store, the cost of the time you spend making the equivalent of $3 to $8 worth of wax will far exceed the retail price. I'd rather use that time learning how to make a frame, or riding. But all the best to you.
I am all for do it yourselfing everything possible, but a small sample bottle of Obenauf's goes a long long way for one saddle, and is only $3. Unless you open a saddle conditioning store, the cost of the time you spend making the equivalent of $3 to $8 worth of wax will far exceed the retail price. I'd rather use that time learning how to make a frame, or riding. But all the best to you.
just buy the damn item, it costs a fraction of the item it's intended to service and it's what the manufacturer recommends!
12-28-04, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelCommuter
This is partly missing the point. In addition to "softening" the saddle a bit, Proofhide or Obenauf's (which I use) protects the saddle from drying and cracking and waterproofs (to a degree) the exterior of the leather. There is nothing "natural" about your process; after the hide is removed from a dead cow, it is manipulated and dyed in many ways, and Proofhide or something else is applied by the user once the saddle is introduced to stress and the elements.
This topic always amazes me. I have two Brooks b17's 92 bikes) with a little over 3500 miles on each of them. I still can't say that I can tell that the saddles are any more comfortable than they were when they were new. IOW, i have never found them anything but comfortable. Maybe they are a wee bit better now, if only because they have molded to my shape.
Again, the proofhide is intended to be a conditioner. It isn't some magical breaking in ointment, although it does aid in break in. It is to be used to preserve moisture in the leather and therefore to prolong the life of the saddle. I think i paid maybe $8 for a can of proofhide 15 months ago. I have used maybe 10 % of it. If it lasts me 10 years than it only cost me $1.25 per year. So you are going to have a major debate over spending $1.25 per year on something that may possibly help preserve your beloved Brooks?
That is silly.
From brookssaddles.com
maintenance (PRESERVATION) main.te.nance (man'tens) n.
Work of keeping something in proper condition; upkeep, prolongation.
Leather Saddle Care
Leather is a natural material, which will provide lasting comfort, coolness in hot weather, style and durability.
If you follow these simple instructions your saddle will adapt itself to you and retain its support and comfort. A new saddle should be treated with the Proofide to help assist the 'breaking - in' process. Proofide helps keep the leather supple as it is specially formulated from natural ingredients to condition, preserve and shower proof your saddle. Proofide is the only substance that should be used to care for your saddle.
Apply a little Proofide to the finished side of the leather. Allow the Proofide to permeate until dry and then polish off. Proofide should be used several times during the 'breaking - in' period and every 3 - 6 months thereafter. On bicycles not fitted with mudguards, an initial application to the underside of the saddle will be beneficial. This need not be polished off. The leather gets its colour during the tanning process and it is possible, therefore, that some colour residues will remain. It is recommended to polish the saddle with a soft cloth before first use.
You should protect your leather saddle from moisture with a saddle cover. If a wet saddle is ridden the colour may stain your clothing. Allow wet saddles to dry naturally. Never tension or Proofide a wet saddle.
Correct leather tension will ensure your saddle retains its shape and comfort. To tension, turn the nose bolt nut 90° at a time, check tension. You can use the tension spanner or allen key to do this. Over - tensioning a saddle will overstretch the leather fibres and may destroy their structure. Little and not very often is the key. Remember, once the end of the nose bolt is reached, the saddle can no longer be tensioned.
Brooks produces a range of saddles varying from race saddles to heavy duty saddles in various colours with single, double and even triple wires. Whilst single rail saddles can be used with a micro - adjust seat pin, remember that with double and triple railed saddles, the clip provided should always be used as this supports the saddle / rider correctly preventing premature breakage to the rails.
Brooks supply a range of spare parts for your saddle to ensure it is always in a good state of repair.
Your Brooks saddle is guaranteed for two years from the date of purchase against defects in manufacture or materials. If you believe you have a claim under this guarantee, you should return the saddle to the place of purchase along with your proof of purchase.
Work of keeping something in proper condition; upkeep, prolongation.
Leather Saddle Care
Leather is a natural material, which will provide lasting comfort, coolness in hot weather, style and durability.
If you follow these simple instructions your saddle will adapt itself to you and retain its support and comfort. A new saddle should be treated with the Proofide to help assist the 'breaking - in' process. Proofide helps keep the leather supple as it is specially formulated from natural ingredients to condition, preserve and shower proof your saddle. Proofide is the only substance that should be used to care for your saddle.
Apply a little Proofide to the finished side of the leather. Allow the Proofide to permeate until dry and then polish off. Proofide should be used several times during the 'breaking - in' period and every 3 - 6 months thereafter. On bicycles not fitted with mudguards, an initial application to the underside of the saddle will be beneficial. This need not be polished off. The leather gets its colour during the tanning process and it is possible, therefore, that some colour residues will remain. It is recommended to polish the saddle with a soft cloth before first use.
You should protect your leather saddle from moisture with a saddle cover. If a wet saddle is ridden the colour may stain your clothing. Allow wet saddles to dry naturally. Never tension or Proofide a wet saddle.
Correct leather tension will ensure your saddle retains its shape and comfort. To tension, turn the nose bolt nut 90° at a time, check tension. You can use the tension spanner or allen key to do this. Over - tensioning a saddle will overstretch the leather fibres and may destroy their structure. Little and not very often is the key. Remember, once the end of the nose bolt is reached, the saddle can no longer be tensioned.
Brooks produces a range of saddles varying from race saddles to heavy duty saddles in various colours with single, double and even triple wires. Whilst single rail saddles can be used with a micro - adjust seat pin, remember that with double and triple railed saddles, the clip provided should always be used as this supports the saddle / rider correctly preventing premature breakage to the rails.
Brooks supply a range of spare parts for your saddle to ensure it is always in a good state of repair.
Your Brooks saddle is guaranteed for two years from the date of purchase against defects in manufacture or materials. If you believe you have a claim under this guarantee, you should return the saddle to the place of purchase along with your proof of purchase.
Last edited by Portis; 12-28-04 at 01:52 PM.
12-28-04, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
Any wax based leather conditioner will work just fine. Snoseal, Hubbard's, some shizzle from Montana whose name I can't remember at the moment. Shedon Brown recommends soaking the saddle in neatsfoot oil but this seems extreme to me. If you wear leather boots, you've probably already got something suficient in the closet.
12-28-04, 10:45 PM
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The 'natrual' way to cure a Brooks is by riding lotsa miles and do lotsa sweating on that leather.
Proofhide and others stuff are NOT needed. Just patience, miles and sweat!
Proofhide and others stuff are NOT needed. Just patience, miles and sweat!
12-29-04, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gregw
Hi Tourbike, a wax based leather product will do just fine, I used Proofhide, but in the future I will just use Snow Seal. The magic of a Brooks is that the leather is stretched from the front to rear of the saddle, without middle padding. So the suspension of the leather and the flex of the seat rails gives a comfortable ride. When you soak the whole thing in Neats Foot oil or motor oil, it completely looses its shape and no longer works as intended. The "Breaking-In" part is the custom butt shape it aquires over time where your sit-bones make contact with the seat. To speed up this break-in period without ruining the suspension aspect, turn the seat over and saturate the leather with the Snow seal only where your sit-bones make contact with the leather, not the whole thing. Use a heat gun or a hair dryer to heat up the leather and apply the wax, keep adding wax til it will take no more. This is what I did and it worked great, no saddle problems on my 5,100 mile cross country this past summer. The saddle looks brand new, the shape is perfect, it works exactly as intended and is very comfortable because it fits me.
I think this is the info you were looking for. Greg
I think this is the info you were looking for. Greg
Smart. Thanks!
12-29-04, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by lsits
If you can get out to Riverside, you can stop by my place and I'll let you use some of my Proofide for free.
12-29-04, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
This topic always amazes me. I have two Brooks b17's 92 bikes) with a little over 3500 miles on each of them. I still can't say that I can tell that the saddles are any more comfortable than they were when they were new. IOW, i have never found them anything but comfortable. Maybe they are a wee bit better now, if only because they have molded to my shape.
Again, the proofhide is intended to be a conditioner. It isn't some magical breaking in ointment, although it does aid in break in. It is to be used to preserve moisture in the leather and therefore to prolong the life of the saddle. I think i paid maybe $8 for a can of proofhide 15 months ago. I have used maybe 10 % of it. If it lasts me 10 years than it only cost me $1.25 per year. So you are going to have a major debate over spending $1.25 per year on something that may possibly help preserve your beloved Brooks?
That is silly.
From brookssaddles.com
Again, the proofhide is intended to be a conditioner. It isn't some magical breaking in ointment, although it does aid in break in. It is to be used to preserve moisture in the leather and therefore to prolong the life of the saddle. I think i paid maybe $8 for a can of proofhide 15 months ago. I have used maybe 10 % of it. If it lasts me 10 years than it only cost me $1.25 per year. So you are going to have a major debate over spending $1.25 per year on something that may possibly help preserve your beloved Brooks?
That is silly.
From brookssaddles.com
When I posted my thread, I was interested in starting the break-in period IMMEDIATELY, like that day, not 7-10 shipping days. Can't very well pick it up at the LBS, can I? In my mind I was thinking "Hey, I don't need a chemistry degree to wax my saddle, this **** can't be hard to make/substitute." I have no real problem buying Proofide REALLY, but it takes time to get, and you can pretty much only order it over the Net. I found it for $6.25, without S&H, so I will definitely order some, but I am going to find something to put on it until then.
The major debate wasn't mine, I was simply seeking alternatives, which are always a good thing...
Anyway, it is raining so much right now, it might take 7-10 until I have the opportunity to ride.
Thanks!
12-29-04, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Istanbul_Tea
Amen, to that. This whole thread is a bit like saying, "You know I really love my Phil Wood bottom bracket but I really object to needing their special BB tool so I'm going to make my own... besides the design I need to copy what else do I need to do to make my own?" Well, besides the $10,000.00 tool mold, the material, somewhere to forge it, the lathing machines, the...
just buy the damn item, it costs a fraction of the item it's intended to service and it's what the manufacturer recommends!
just buy the damn item, it costs a fraction of the item it's intended to service and it's what the manufacturer recommends!
No need to be snippy.
12-29-04, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by onbike 1939
The "natural way" is why most Brooks saddles end up chucked in the garage being rightly regarded as instruments of torture.I have just conditioned my latest saddle (B17) and have conditioned around 40 others so that they are comfortable and waterproofed BEFORE riding. Forget oil and neatsfoot oil. Most of all Brit tourers ride Brooks and have done so since they were first made. The leather dressing you need is "Hydrophane" as used and sold by saddlers (horses that is). Use the sparingly on the underside of the saddle and then wait some hours untill you see how for it has penetrated before re-applying. "Proofhide" does NOT condition saddles and does not penetrate the outer top finish. It merely keeps the leather from cracking around the rivets but , sadly, does not prolong saddle life.If you want info on the full process feel free to email me and I will attach an article I wrote on the subject.Do it---I have a Brooks which is 35yrs old and is still as good as new--no, better!
Seriously, thanks, this is the most interesting advice received so far. I will definitely email you.
12-29-04, 08:18 AM
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Greg, the Hydrophane I'm referring to is the "Leather Dressing" described as "softening" and "waterproofing" leather. If you google this you will find a supplier I'm sure.I found a UK supplier called "Saddlebox".
12-29-04, 12:51 PM
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I use Proofhide on new Brooks for the first few rides until they start to break in, but when I'm out of Proofhide, or for saddles that I want to soften & protect, I use Ko-Cho-Line. Ko-Cho-Line seems to be almost the same as Proofhide, but with a little more solvent in it; it's a little softer in the can, but when absorbed by the saddle, leaves a similar waxy coating on the surface. You can find it at many good horse saddle & feed & tack stores. Cheaper than Proofhide too.
12-30-04, 01:40 PM
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What ever you use, be careful about how much you apply because they are not kidding when they say you can over do it. I just got a Brooks B-17 Special and applied oil, Proofride, and saddle conditioner on varying days (top and bottom). I've never been a vary patient person with this sort of stuff, and I think that I may have ruined the thing as it seems to stretch like a hammock when I ride it now. I'm letting it dry and shrink for a few days. Don't make the same mistake. I waited a long time for this saddle 
12-30-04, 04:13 PM
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onbike 1939
I have a B-17 sitting in the box it came in (from Wallingford). All I have done is to apply Proofhide one time 2 months ago. Can the stuff you recommend work now? I have been trying to use a new Specialized Alias 143 but I have now come to the conclusion that it is time to try the Brooks.
Please e-mail me your article. www.barrowlink@itexas.net
I have a B-17 sitting in the box it came in (from Wallingford). All I have done is to apply Proofhide one time 2 months ago. Can the stuff you recommend work now? I have been trying to use a new Specialized Alias 143 but I have now come to the conclusion that it is time to try the Brooks.
Please e-mail me your article. www.barrowlink@itexas.net
12-30-04, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rlong
What ever you use, be careful about how much you apply because they are not kidding when they say you can over do it. I just got a Brooks B-17 Special and applied oil, Proofride, and saddle conditioner on varying days (top and bottom). I've never been a vary patient person with this sort of stuff, and I think that I may have ruined the thing as it seems to stretch like a hammock when I ride it now. I'm letting it dry and shrink for a few days. Don't make the same mistake. I waited a long time for this saddle
Good luck, and thanks.