grasscutter

Doing some much needed maintenance on my old Trek 560 Pro.
BB started making noise this summer, and now I've got some time during off season to tear into it.
Here's what I found!



Looks like all pieces are shot.
Found a few options on E*Bay to replace it exactly as it is, with an identical Campagnolo 68-ss 114mm BB.
And will check with my LBS to see if hey've got some old stock laying around. You never know....

What other options do I have: Ultegra, DA, UN55, etc.?
It currently measures @ 114mm. I'm only finding 115.5mm to be the next closest available.
Will I encounter any problems going to a 115.5mm?

Thanks for the advice.

HillRider

One problem, other than spindle length, is that Campy and Shimano don't use the exact same taper geometry. The taper is the same 4° included angle but the end dimensions vary slightly with Campy (ISO taper) being slightly smaller than Shimano (JIS taper). So, installing a Campy crank on a Shimano bb will not allow it to travel as far up the taper as the correct spindle. That said, many users have reported good results with this mix-and-match. The 1.5 mm length difference of the 115 mm bb should not be a problem. However, Shimano did make a 113 mm spindle length in their BB-UNXX cartridge style bottom brackets and this may work well too if you can find one.

Bianchigirll 

Hello Grasscutter. What CampI crank is this? a Nuovo/Super Record type? Unfortunately your options are very limited. You need to use a CampI BB (esp the spindle) because the size/angle of the taper is different from the Japanese ones. Depending on what year your crank is from there is also a difference in the CampI spindle because the CSPC rules changes in '78.

If this is a daily rider I would recomend (and use myself) a Phil Wood BB. They can be pricy but are bullet proof and as you have seen not much pricier than a good old Campi BB.

Post a pic of the back of one of your arms showing all the markings and /or check the vintage trek site to determine the year of your crank.

Road Fan

If you can read off the codes and letters engraved on the back of the crank arms, especially if there's a number or a letter in a shape and say if your cups have little spirals in the bore holes, we can at least look up if there are any alternative spindles in Campy's repertoir.

One issue is that with spindle replacement it's often true that matching length is not enough - the length of the drive side is important.

There are many threads on matching tapers or not matching, I'll let you look it up at Sheldon Brown, since I dont' believe in taking chances with high-end vintage parts.

But I can confirm what spindle you can use, and will offer you mine if you can use it.

fietsbob

Phil Wood BB's offer the same axle type square taper, 1 of their 3 axle types made..

I've used Phil BB's on older Campag cranks, for many years..

The others are JIS, (all the shimano brands you listed) and the current ISO.

the Phil will do the job perfectly.. interior mounting rings*
just need the different Spline fitting tools, they make, to install them.

*[add touch up paint on the BB shell ends]

grasscutter

Yeah...
Just discovered the taper issue. Some say its negligible. Others disagree.

My Trek 560 Pro is a 1986.
Doubtful many of the components are original, as it came to me many years ago, quite mismatched.
Have made upgrades as parts wore out.
So, I'm OK, with upgrading cranks and gearing, if needed, while doing the BB service.

Here's what I'm working with so far:
Years ago, I swapped out 6 speed freewheel for a 7 speed, the original cluster and chain were toast.
Added low end Shimano 7 speed brifters.



Here's 2 pics of the crank that came with it:
Teeth look 'OK', is about it. With a chain replacement on my to-do list, maybe now is the time for sprocket upgrades too?
Ideally...I'd be stoked to do an even better upgrade to 8-9speed.... Although with 126mm rear spacing, I realize the limitations.

fietsbob

Get the Phil BB and restore , want modern klick shifter stuff, more 'speeds', go N+1 with a whole new bike.

RoyIII

Phil Wood is the best way to proceed

Bianchigirll 

OH You have a Mavic crank? that is a whole different story and may change your BB otions. Check this site https://velobase.com/ViewBrand.aspx?B...0aa8cef&From=T for information on what BB should be used with that crank.

I don't really like the look ofthe taper holes on that driveside arm. Can you post a better pic? maybe a straight on view? Let me see if I can scrounge up some old Mavic data around here.

I am with Bob if your dreaming of 8+ speeds with fancy click shifters a good "new to me" bike may be a better/cheaper option.

onespeedbiker

B-girl, the OP's state is really unchanged with the Mavic crank it, like most European cranks, use an ISO taper; that would explain the OP's bike having a Campy BB. I looked up the Velobase description and all it says is an ISO 116mm spindle. Since there is no indication if that is a symmetrical spindle, which it most likely is not, the RP will need to measure the end to race and race to race to determine the size for his crank.

grasscutter

Here's a cpl more attempts to show detail on the square taper.

Backside looks nice and square. Front has areas where the fixing bolt threads rubbed on the spider.
Pics aren't the best, and not sure if this is still an issue.

<<<I looked up the Velobase description and all it says is an ISO 116mm spindle. Since there is no indication if that is a symmetrical spindle, which it most likely is not, the OP will need to measure the end to race and race to race to determine the size for his crank.>>>

Enlarge on this, please.

HillRider

Many bb spindles are assymetrical, that is the drive side projects father from the shell face than the non-drive side to allow more room for the spider and chainrings.

You need three measurements from your old spindle; 1)the over all length, end-to-end, 2) the distance from the drive side bearing track to the drive side end of the spindle and 3) from the non-drive side bearing track to the non-drive side end of the spindle. If 2) and 3) are the same, the spindle is symetrical, if they are different, it is not.

fietsbob

If you get a Phil BB, not only is it adjusted somewhat with the Lock rings, as neither shoulder
against the frame BB shell face.

But it, also, can be pressed sideways through the bearings ,
as the axles have no interior shoulders,
and rely on the precise matching of the bearing ID and the spindle OD.

by that fact you can change the offset ... I have done so, myself,

nothing more than the 2 mounting tools, a flat washer, [span the opening on the tool],
and the bolt that holds the crankarm on as a press.
an adjustable wrench to hold the square , and a crank bolt wrench to turn the bolt.

bolt pulls the spindle through the bearings.

Surely Omaha Has a Bike Shop to go to to get you the right parts..
If not Lincoln would, colleges have more bike Use.

Campag 68SS120 is 112 long, [ for 5 speeds] in the catalog #17
track is shorter, triple and Cross use a longer one.

... there is also the specifics of which one, as there are 2 cup types
and a co-reponding axle for each .. thicker cup has rifling spirals
to expel grit without a contact seal . bearing races in the axle are thus closer together.

bring what you have to the Bike shop and they will call Up Phil and Co.
or get thru one of the distributors they do business with.

problem solved. top shelf .

Homebrew01

You could possibly go with smaller name BB, such as Gipiemme, Zeus, Omas or Ofmega

IthaDan 

I know a cartridge BB isn't exactly C&V, but Miche makes an ISO tapered BB for like $25.

BentLink

I recall that Velo Orange has some bottom brackets, with quite a variety of lengths and spanning English, Italian, and a fe other configurations in ISO tapers. I just stuck one on my kid's old Nishiki.

bummer, the VO website seems to be taking the week off...

fietsbob

To restore to C&V status, The #610RD BB Mavic Made for those necessitated chamfer milling the frame, inside the BB Shell.

onespeedbiker

First can we assume the cups are also buggered? As far as a replacement, the current BB you have is a 114.5mm spindle with thick cup(I'll explain later); the Mavic cranksets apparently takes a 116mm spindle, but rarely are these long spindles symmetrical and since you were using a slightly smaller spindle, obviously there is some cross compatibility with other sizes, which is why you need to know the size of your current BB spindle. Campy has hundred BB or so and many are marked the same; ie for a double crank the spindle is marked "SS" and for a triple crank it is marked "SSS"; the "68" means it's for a BSC threaded shell (68mm wide; if it was for an Italian BB it would be marked "70" ), so a spindle with SS 68 means it will fit on of the double cranksets if the BB shell is BSC (there are quite a lot of them); some of the older spindles are also marked 120, but that means it is for a bicycle with 120mm dropouts, it's not the length. While the length does narrow it down you still need to know how much the spindle is offset on the drive side assuming it is asymmetrical. Also Campy made thick wall cups (the ones that are spiral cut like threads in the spindle hole; again from your photo you have a thick cup spindle and cups) and thin wall cups; if the spindle is for a thick wall cup, the races are set back about 3mm to compensate for the thicker cup (so you can't use a thin wall spindle with thick wall cups or visa versa. Hillrider in post #14 explained how to measure the spindle, and then compare the dimensions to another spindle or check the numbers against a list of Campy spindles and cups.

Grand Bois

And since they mount with adapter rings like Phil's, the offset can be adjusted a few millimeters one way or the other. I've been using a couple of them for years. The downside is that they have a steel body, so they're heavy.

Why hasn't anybody mentioned that a Phil Wood BB will cost at least $150? That has always kept me from considering them.

bhchdh 

From Compasscycle.com.

https://www.compasscycle.com/bb_SKFBRC_iso.html

Grand Bois

Or you could buy three of these and use the change to buy the tool.

https://www.cycleclubsports.com/p-457...FSFyQgod-2oATA

Bianchigirll 

Yeah I posted the velobase page link and the starteed digging for my old Mavic stuff. I realized the speccs were virtually the same but, Unfortunately or the OP my my neighbor popped in and cocktail hour started early.

I still think the Phil is the best option if this bike gets heavy miles, and I am even willing to lend my tools to him.

As for the cranks the holes seem to be nice and square it must have been the angle and slight bit of dirt and other stuff that made me think they might be askew.

onespeedbiker

Once again, the offset will come into play. I believe the Miche 115mm is symmetrical. If the Campy spindle is not, then the OP could end up with a BB that allows the drive side crank arm to hit the chain stay.

grasscutter

OK. *whew*... lots of info here.

Today I searched e*bay and found this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/160945169962...84.m1423.l2649
Seems like its correct?

Would like to restore it to correct C&V, but not necessary @ this time. Plan is to do a correct restore within next couple years.
So...I'm not opposed to putting in a cartridge (temporarily). Giving me time to search for a better selection.
FWIW...and from what I find on vintage-trek, this bike originally came with Shimano 105. Then, when I bought it years ago, it was a mis-match @ best.

Maybe a cartridge is the best option for right now.

Hmm..

Anyways, here's some measurements I took today.



So, it seems the drive side is longer, correct?

fietsbob

There is a 115, here..https://www.philwood.com/products/bbpages/ssbb.php