What can you expect from an e-assist bike, share your numbers
01-04-13, 06:58 PM
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What can you expect from an e-assist bike, share your numbers
My bike is an ORIX 27 speed MTB with a BionX 350htrr retrofit system, $1995. It is Li-ion 48v battery with a 8.8 Ah 423 Wh, 6.6 to 29.6 ft-lbs of torque hub motor. 275Lbs total, me, bike, BionX set up and my other stuff I usually take with me... What are your numbers on your E-Assist bikes? These are mine... 
I now have over 4,000KMs without the slightest of problems with the BionX set up, EDIT; now at 6000KM I had trouble with the PAS but was fixed at no charge by BionX and my LBS, EDIT; I now have over 10,000Km... 
Range (manufacturers numbers) is supposed to be. 105 kms/65.5 Miles using level 1 all the way, flat road, depending on wind weight, hills...
I can get........................................................... 120 Kms/75.0 Miles using level 1 all the way, 1 bar left out of 8 for battery level
I can get ........................................................... 50 Kms/30 Miles using level 4 all the way...... 1 bar left out of 8 for battery level
Lent my bike to a buddy
.................................. 17.4 KMs/10.5 Miles, I guess he decided to use it as a Mo-Ped using throttle only with some hills, 0 bars left out of 8 for battery level...
Max level used was level 1 and only when "needed", Econo riding.. 80Kms/50Miles 7 bars left out of 8 for battery level.
(In theory) I "could" have went................................................. 560Kms/350Miles 1 bar left out of 8 for battery level)
I used whatever level needed, "normal" riding............................. 75Kms/47Miles 3 bars left out of 8 for battery level.
(In theory) I "could" have went.................................................. 105Kms/65Miles 1 bar left out of 8 for battery level)
On the hills, it assists me using level 4 average speed (me putting out some major effort)...
4-5% hill 2.9Kms/1.8Miles................................................. 32.0Kmh/20.0MPH, I can only do 12.8Kms/8 MPH by myself only... 2.5X faster but the speed nanny cuts out assist at 32K/20M.
7.5-13% hill 3.5Km/2.2Miles...................................................20.0Kmh/12.5MPH, I can only do 8.0Kms/5.0MPH by myself only... 2.5X faster.
20-23% hill1.5Kms/0.9Miles................................................11.2Kmh/7.0MPH, I can only do 6.4Kmh/4.0MPH by myself only... 1.75X faster, BUT, I made it up the hill without thinking I was going to die, unlike under my own power only.
Another way of looking at it is this, these are non re-gen using numbers, you can add another 15% to the distances per charge, when I do use re-gen...
Level 1; I can go about 110KM/69Miles normal pedaling using 422wHr assist, and my pedaling effort would = 953WHr = 76KM/47Miles @ 69.3% estimated.
Level 2; I can go about 80KM/50Miles normal pedaling using 422wHr assist, and my pedaling effort would = 578WHr = 46KM/29Miles @ 57.8% estimated
Level 3; I can go about 60KM/38Miles normal pedaling using 422wHr assist, and my pedaling effort would = 328WHr = 26KM/17Miles @ 43.7% estimated.
Level 4; I can go about 40KM/25Miles normal pedaling using 422wHr assist, and my pedaling effort would = 78WHr = 6KM/4Miles @ 15.6% estimated.
Using throttle only I can go about 20miles on flat ground, using throttle only no pedaling and hilly terrain, I can go about 12.5miles with no re-gen and about 17.0miles with using re-gen as much as possible... That's a 36% gain in distance because of the re-gen. Now on flatter ground that would be more like 10-15% but getting a bike with re-gen, IS WORTH IT in my book.
On flat roads (some small hills) my average speed used to be 21Kmh/13MPH with only me powering the bike, now it's an easy 26Kmh/16MPH on level 1, or an easy 32Kmh/20MPH on level 4
I now have over 4,000KMs without the slightest of problems with the BionX set up, EDIT; now at 6000KM I had trouble with the PAS but was fixed at no charge by BionX and my LBS, EDIT; I now have over 10,000Km... Range (manufacturers numbers) is supposed to be. 105 kms/65.5 Miles using level 1 all the way, flat road, depending on wind weight, hills...
I can get........................................................... 120 Kms/75.0 Miles using level 1 all the way, 1 bar left out of 8 for battery level
I can get ........................................................... 50 Kms/30 Miles using level 4 all the way...... 1 bar left out of 8 for battery level
Lent my bike to a buddy
.................................. 17.4 KMs/10.5 Miles, I guess he decided to use it as a Mo-Ped using throttle only with some hills, 0 bars left out of 8 for battery level... Max level used was level 1 and only when "needed", Econo riding.. 80Kms/50Miles 7 bars left out of 8 for battery level.
(In theory) I "could" have went................................................. 560Kms/350Miles 1 bar left out of 8 for battery level)
I used whatever level needed, "normal" riding............................. 75Kms/47Miles 3 bars left out of 8 for battery level.
(In theory) I "could" have went.................................................. 105Kms/65Miles 1 bar left out of 8 for battery level)
On the hills, it assists me using level 4 average speed (me putting out some major effort)...
4-5% hill 2.9Kms/1.8Miles................................................. 32.0Kmh/20.0MPH, I can only do 12.8Kms/8 MPH by myself only... 2.5X faster but the speed nanny cuts out assist at 32K/20M.
7.5-13% hill 3.5Km/2.2Miles...................................................20.0Kmh/12.5MPH, I can only do 8.0Kms/5.0MPH by myself only... 2.5X faster.
20-23% hill1.5Kms/0.9Miles................................................11.2Kmh/7.0MPH, I can only do 6.4Kmh/4.0MPH by myself only... 1.75X faster, BUT, I made it up the hill without thinking I was going to die, unlike under my own power only.
Another way of looking at it is this, these are non re-gen using numbers, you can add another 15% to the distances per charge, when I do use re-gen...
Level 1; I can go about 110KM/69Miles normal pedaling using 422wHr assist, and my pedaling effort would = 953WHr = 76KM/47Miles @ 69.3% estimated.
Level 2; I can go about 80KM/50Miles normal pedaling using 422wHr assist, and my pedaling effort would = 578WHr = 46KM/29Miles @ 57.8% estimated
Level 3; I can go about 60KM/38Miles normal pedaling using 422wHr assist, and my pedaling effort would = 328WHr = 26KM/17Miles @ 43.7% estimated.
Level 4; I can go about 40KM/25Miles normal pedaling using 422wHr assist, and my pedaling effort would = 78WHr = 6KM/4Miles @ 15.6% estimated.
Using throttle only I can go about 20miles on flat ground, using throttle only no pedaling and hilly terrain, I can go about 12.5miles with no re-gen and about 17.0miles with using re-gen as much as possible... That's a 36% gain in distance because of the re-gen.
Now on flatter ground that would be more like 10-15% but getting a bike with re-gen, IS WORTH IT in my book.On flat roads (some small hills) my average speed used to be 21Kmh/13MPH with only me powering the bike, now it's an easy 26Kmh/16MPH on level 1, or an easy 32Kmh/20MPH on level 4
Last edited by 350htrr; 03-27-17 at 10:31 PM. Reason: add more info
11-22-13, 11:17 AM
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I have the same Bionx 48v kit installed in my HP Velotechnik FS trike along with a streamer fairing. The total weight of the bike is about 70 lbs.
The range I am getting now is very similar to what you said. When I first bought the Bionx I had planned to buy a 2nd battery for long tour (+100 miles). Now it becomes unnecessary because I only use my Bionx when needed. It is fairly easy to maintain the momentum of a heavy bike at 15 mph with no power assist on the flat and only have the power kicked in when needed. Also if you can hold off the temptation of high speed down hill speed ride by turning on the regenerative function at speed of 18 mph and higher you can get over 100 miles range between charge.
The range I am getting now is very similar to what you said. When I first bought the Bionx I had planned to buy a 2nd battery for long tour (+100 miles). Now it becomes unnecessary because I only use my Bionx when needed. It is fairly easy to maintain the momentum of a heavy bike at 15 mph with no power assist on the flat and only have the power kicked in when needed. Also if you can hold off the temptation of high speed down hill speed ride by turning on the regenerative function at speed of 18 mph and higher you can get over 100 miles range between charge.
12-10-13, 10:46 AM
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This is expressed in Wh/Km ( Watt Hour per Kilometer ).
Most ebike setups at 30 kph will average 8~10wh/km on level ground, NO PEDALING, with 200 lbs rider.
I've tried cyclone, crystalyte ( 4 and X5 series ) , BionX, UltraMotor, Nine Continents, eZee, MXUS, Golden Motor etc etc etc....... Brushed, Brushless, geared, Driect drive of all sorts, and at every voltage form 24v to 100v ..
Efficiency of the bike as far as electrical consumption goes, should never include pedal input imo, given the non-scientific wide range of effort provided by the cyclist, you could get unlimited mileage from any battery pack, if you never hit the throttle lol... So with that in mind, i feel specifications on range should be given using motor only, then you can extend range, or decrease expectations depending on your level of effort and/or conditions.
Going full out on 100v Direct Drive hub motor at 60 kph, i burn thru about 20~30 wh/km, depending on wind direction...
Most ebike setups at 30 kph will average 8~10wh/km on level ground, NO PEDALING, with 200 lbs rider.
I've tried cyclone, crystalyte ( 4 and X5 series ) , BionX, UltraMotor, Nine Continents, eZee, MXUS, Golden Motor etc etc etc....... Brushed, Brushless, geared, Driect drive of all sorts, and at every voltage form 24v to 100v ..
Efficiency of the bike as far as electrical consumption goes, should never include pedal input imo, given the non-scientific wide range of effort provided by the cyclist, you could get unlimited mileage from any battery pack, if you never hit the throttle lol... So with that in mind, i feel specifications on range should be given using motor only, then you can extend range, or decrease expectations depending on your level of effort and/or conditions.
Going full out on 100v Direct Drive hub motor at 60 kph, i burn thru about 20~30 wh/km, depending on wind direction...
12-10-13, 11:49 AM
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I spoke with Justin at ebikes.ca and he mentioned using a dremel to cut a channel into the hub motor shaft to pass the temp sensor wiring. I was wondering if you've done this procedure and if so, would you please post any tips, hints, pictures, and videos that you may think helpful.
We appreciate your time and advice on this forum. I've used one of your YouTube videos already in assisting my hub motor modifications.
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12-10-13, 12:30 PM
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If you push the motor to it's maximum potential or more, a temp sensor is a good idea but i've used other methods to prevent meltdowns, like using the proper motor rpm/volt in the right rim size, to prevent overheating under most usage, yes, i've had 2 meltdowns and both were with my 350 lbs friend riding off-road at low speeds...
Depending on the motor type, wires exiting the bearing *( xlyte, UM, BionX, ) vs centre of the axle( 9C, mxus, ) .. installing a temp probe varies in difficulty, the clyte type is easier as you usually have enough room to wedge them in as-is or ream out the slot a bit with a dremel and a stack of cutting disks if you also use large motor phase wires... the 9C thru axle type is more work and what Justin suggested is likely for this reason, making a slot opposite of the motor wires, thru the bearing for the temp sensor is the least difficult option.
Keep the temps below 100 celcius on the outside and you should have no problems..
I'll see what i can do about a video this winter.. would be a fun project.
Depending on the motor type, wires exiting the bearing *( xlyte, UM, BionX, ) vs centre of the axle( 9C, mxus, ) .. installing a temp probe varies in difficulty, the clyte type is easier as you usually have enough room to wedge them in as-is or ream out the slot a bit with a dremel and a stack of cutting disks if you also use large motor phase wires... the 9C thru axle type is more work and what Justin suggested is likely for this reason, making a slot opposite of the motor wires, thru the bearing for the temp sensor is the least difficult option.
Keep the temps below 100 celcius on the outside and you should have no problems..
I'll see what i can do about a video this winter.. would be a fun project.
01-03-16, 10:12 AM
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(REVIVED OLD THREAD THAT NEEDS MORE INPUT FROM REAL WORLD USERS)
I'll try to contribute here for a 36V 350W BaFang mid-drive set to 28+ mph assist with throttle on a 650B MTB with 12-32 rear cassette and 46T front sprocket, 2.1 MTB tires 40-65lb. and 36V 10.6A battery. Also, I'm 225lbs. and the bike weighs in at 47.5lbs. currently. It's probably safe to say that the total weight being pushed is 275-290lbs.
I have complete confidence in planning 20 mile trips using maximum power assist with occasional throttle use on hills that slow my cadence too much for comfort. That is MY real world expectations at full power and it gives me power for the whole trip; meaning there's power left when it's over and I don't run out.
Only one test at level 3 of 5 has been done so far. I easily rode 24 miles and had 3 bars left of 6 on the charge display, but when riding it only showed one or two bars depending on the load it was under. My guess is the display is a live read on power supplied at that level and what is left if you want that level of assist all the way to complete drain. By that I mean, it will probably go further, but the assistance being provided will slowly decrease until it has no juice left.
The one time I ran it to empty, it started cutting out at lower and lower mph assistance points; up to 20mph, then 15mph, then 10mph and so forth until the display screen went blank. The display started blinking as a low battery warning when it got low.
My ride calculates out to ~381Wh. Using the conventional method of dividing that by 20 you get ~19 miles range estimated actual use. This simple calculation is pretty accurate in my case for full power use and likely is about right for throttle only use, but that is just a guess on my part (not tested yet - throttle only is rather boring IMHO).
For camparison the bike was advertised at 400Wh and 35+ range. I feel this is basically accurate for level 2-3 of 5 (or 50% power) with just moving your legs for pdeal assistance without much effort.
The only bike I have read about that seems to be very accurate is the super high-end bike that has done so well in the Pikes Peak runs. They advertise 40-80 miles range and tests I've read say real world is 46 miles range. Most eBike advertised ranges are close to half what is stated or slightly more (that's a generalization).
As most everyone knows there are lots of variables to consider when stating range and they are different for every bike and rider.
I'll try to contribute here for a 36V 350W BaFang mid-drive set to 28+ mph assist with throttle on a 650B MTB with 12-32 rear cassette and 46T front sprocket, 2.1 MTB tires 40-65lb. and 36V 10.6A battery. Also, I'm 225lbs. and the bike weighs in at 47.5lbs. currently. It's probably safe to say that the total weight being pushed is 275-290lbs.
I have complete confidence in planning 20 mile trips using maximum power assist with occasional throttle use on hills that slow my cadence too much for comfort. That is MY real world expectations at full power and it gives me power for the whole trip; meaning there's power left when it's over and I don't run out.
Only one test at level 3 of 5 has been done so far. I easily rode 24 miles and had 3 bars left of 6 on the charge display, but when riding it only showed one or two bars depending on the load it was under. My guess is the display is a live read on power supplied at that level and what is left if you want that level of assist all the way to complete drain. By that I mean, it will probably go further, but the assistance being provided will slowly decrease until it has no juice left.
The one time I ran it to empty, it started cutting out at lower and lower mph assistance points; up to 20mph, then 15mph, then 10mph and so forth until the display screen went blank. The display started blinking as a low battery warning when it got low.
My ride calculates out to ~381Wh. Using the conventional method of dividing that by 20 you get ~19 miles range estimated actual use. This simple calculation is pretty accurate in my case for full power use and likely is about right for throttle only use, but that is just a guess on my part (not tested yet - throttle only is rather boring IMHO).
For camparison the bike was advertised at 400Wh and 35+ range. I feel this is basically accurate for level 2-3 of 5 (or 50% power) with just moving your legs for pdeal assistance without much effort.
The only bike I have read about that seems to be very accurate is the super high-end bike that has done so well in the Pikes Peak runs. They advertise 40-80 miles range and tests I've read say real world is 46 miles range. Most eBike advertised ranges are close to half what is stated or slightly more (that's a generalization).
As most everyone knows there are lots of variables to consider when stating range and they are different for every bike and rider.
Last edited by NoPhart; 01-15-16 at 06:54 AM. Reason: corrections
01-03-16, 01:21 PM
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Farthest I've traveled on my 360V, 10 ah front hub system was 16 miles, and it seemed like the battery had pretty much had it. 175 pound rider, flat road, no wind, 40 or so pound bike, half in town with traffic lights and half bike trail, top speed 20-21 mph whenever possible. Translates to 20+ w/h per mile which is pretty close to what is "normal" for those conditions.
01-03-16, 03:14 PM
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I weigh 75kg (165 pound), am reasonably fit, only ride off road, and usually in pretty harsh conditions. My Bosch Performance powered mtb with it's 400wh 11ah battery gives me an average range of about 25 miles using a mix of eco and tour.
A recent change to Hutchinson DZO tyres has seen this average drop though.
I have also been known to almost flatten the battery on the bike in 10.9miles though, using eco, tour, and one very short blip of sort. The elevation gain was 6,362'
The article for the ride can be found here. Giving something back - electric mountain biking in the Swiss Alps
image upload no size limit
A recent change to Hutchinson DZO tyres has seen this average drop though.
I have also been known to almost flatten the battery on the bike in 10.9miles though, using eco, tour, and one very short blip of sort. The elevation gain was 6,362'
The article for the ride can be found here. Giving something back - electric mountain biking in the Swiss Alps
image upload no size limit
Last edited by Eddiej; 01-03-16 at 03:24 PM.
01-15-16, 07:02 AM
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Finally got a 35 miles ride in using level 3 of 5 and had 2 of 6 bars left on the charge. It's nice to know it will easily do 35+ miles at level 3 while pedaling at a normal pace without much effort.
When wiping down the bike after the ride I noticed the markings on the bottom of the BaFang mid-drive. It's a 350W/36V motor, not a 500W/36V like I originally thought (went through prior post and corrected that). Builder stated it had a 680W peak output, so I "assumed" it was a 500W, but it is only a 350W...
The good thing is if a 350W adds this much assistance, then I can only assume the 500W-750W motors with higher volt levels provide much more assistance; albeit using more juice from the tank (I guess?). And I think this thing is a kick with only a 350W/36V motor.
When wiping down the bike after the ride I noticed the markings on the bottom of the BaFang mid-drive. It's a 350W/36V motor, not a 500W/36V like I originally thought (went through prior post and corrected that). Builder stated it had a 680W peak output, so I "assumed" it was a 500W, but it is only a 350W...
The good thing is if a 350W adds this much assistance, then I can only assume the 500W-750W motors with higher volt levels provide much more assistance; albeit using more juice from the tank (I guess?). And I think this thing is a kick with only a 350W/36V motor.
Last edited by NoPhart; 03-05-16 at 07:35 PM.
03-05-16, 06:13 PM
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More good range news to report from my E-bike spec'd at the left. Rode from the Pico Rivera Golf Course (CA) to the beach and back on the San Gabrial Riverbed trail with a friend on his new carbon road bike. The ride was 21 miles each way, for a total of 42 miles. The E-bike managed to pull its' half of the load, but my endurance ran out at about the 40 mile marker. The last 2 miles were a real chore for this 50-something only 580 miles back into riding again. I started on level 2 of 5, but quickly upped that to level 3 to keep pace with my co-rider weekend road warrior on his new "Stealth Bomber" flat black carbon special. I varied the level of assist between 3 and 4 trying to conserve energy without falling behind. It worked well and this 42 mile ride is the longest range ride I have completed so far.
The bike was advertised as 35+ range and I'm getting 20 at full power level 5 and the actual advertised range varying between level 3 and 4. These BaFang BBS02 mid-drives are awesome little pieces of equipment!
PS: While we were taking a water break at the beach, my buddy overheard three road bike riders talking about how embarassing it was to have "that fat tire bike" pass them.
Yeap, they were talking about me on a eMTB with 2.125" knobby tires. Little did they know I had some volts in my system; not steroids!
The bike was advertised as 35+ range and I'm getting 20 at full power level 5 and the actual advertised range varying between level 3 and 4. These BaFang BBS02 mid-drives are awesome little pieces of equipment!
PS: While we were taking a water break at the beach, my buddy overheard three road bike riders talking about how embarassing it was to have "that fat tire bike" pass them.
Yeap, they were talking about me on a eMTB with 2.125" knobby tires. Little did they know I had some volts in my system; not steroids!
Last edited by NoPhart; 03-05-16 at 06:23 PM.
03-05-16, 07:04 PM
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I guess I neglected this thread basically for the last 2 years, Update. I got the wife a 350 BionX assist too. 2 years ago and... She went from riding her old bike from about 350Km in the 3 years she had it, to over 2,200KM in the last 2 years with her new set up...
We also went on two bike holidays and never plugged in either bike into a wall socket just charged them with a solar panel... A total of 1,490KMs ridden on the bikes in about 20days about 75 KM on average per day... The possibilities of E-Assist bikes are expanding big time...
We also went on two bike holidays and never plugged in either bike into a wall socket just charged them with a solar panel... A total of 1,490KMs ridden on the bikes in about 20days about 75 KM on average per day... The possibilities of E-Assist bikes are expanding big time...
Last edited by 350htrr; 03-05-16 at 07:14 PM.
03-07-16, 09:33 PM
#12
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Have an Enzo, typical specs except that it is also a folding bike. Live in flat Florida and I ride usually at level 3 of 5. Got 35 miles yesterday and still had 2 bars out of 5. I rode "bareback" (electric off) for maybe 5 or 6 of the miles.
03-08-16, 06:40 PM
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When I first started this thread I had no real Idea on how most people used their E-Bikes... There needs to be a distinction on how one rides their E-Bike... PAS mostly, or throttle mostly... As there is/can be a huge difference with the distance one can actually go with the different type of system... And there is a different mind set for people who buy/used them... Please make sure if you post your set-up here, to state the type of use/how it is ridden...
03-10-16, 11:06 AM
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350W geared front hub, 36V 11Ah bottle battery. Hand throttle only, typically at full and level 5 assist (except in cases where I want less assist, which is why I wanted the control of a hand throttle . . . things like riding on ice). I have no idea how it would perform without pedaling, as I always pedal. It isn't a motorcycle, I don't ride it like one.
Normal flats the speed is typically between 17-20mph (wind decreases this to about 12mph). I have never really pushed the range on the battery, I would safely say about 15 miles, top. However, when it is below freezing the range drops fast.
Normal flats the speed is typically between 17-20mph (wind decreases this to about 12mph). I have never really pushed the range on the battery, I would safely say about 15 miles, top. However, when it is below freezing the range drops fast.
03-10-16, 08:06 PM
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Haibike XDURO 29" hardtail, 36V, 11 ah battery; my wife ascended a 9 mile, 3000'+ trail in mostly sport or turbo mode (she's out of shape) and used three of five of five charging lights (third went out shortly after the ride); coasted down so 18 miles; should be able to travel at least 30 if necessary. 118 pound rider, 10 pound pack, 42 pound (reported) bike, no wind, 75 degrees F (this is SoCal).
