chesky

I can't believe people are still buying Tern after a lot of recalls and reported accidents.

slickginger

Everybody calm down about dumping on Terns. I have a Tern D7i, and use it for daily commuting. Yes they have problems, but this isn't one of them. I'm not sure what your problem is OP, but I feel like you need to just sit down with it and tighten it. Mine were a little loose when I got it, so I went in there and adjusted it. They made it SUPER serviceable, no tools required. Just turn the little turnbuckle inside the hinge a few clicks and try folding. Is it easier or harder? If it's easier, turn it the other way and try it again. Keep doing this until it's tight enough without being a pain to open/close.

The safety pin is there as a secondary safeguard, and is not needed if your hinge lock is adjusted correctly. Focus on adjusting it until it's working. Until something is broken that prevents you from doing the adjustment, I don't see why criticizing Tern is warranted here. It's like criticizing a car company because the tires are under pressure... yes they should have been inflated fully from the factory, but you can fix this yourself in less time than it takes to make a thread about it.

Rick Imby

@slickginger

You certainly got that right. I cannot believe someone having to go to a forum to fix a very very simple adjustment on his bike.

northernlights

This thread is over three years old. Yes Tern had some problems with some first gen models years ago, but there have been no reported problems with their 2nd and third gen bikes that I have seen.




I can't believe people are still whining about stuff that happened years ago. Jeez get over it.
If everyone said that about the major car companies they would have all been out of business long ago.

chesky

Years ago? There was a mass recall just a few months ago. Google it.

mconlonx

I can't find one from a few months ago; the latest one I could find is this one:

Tern expands recall of some bikes over frame concerns
Published April 26, 2016
by BRAIN Staff

WASHINGTON (BRAIN) — Tern is expanding its recall of some folding bikes. The recall, first announced in May 2013 covering about 175 bikes, has now been expanded to cover an additional 220 bikes, which were sold as recently as this month. The affected frames can break at the hinge on the toptube.

Tern's U.S. distributopr has received four reports of incidents of the frame hinge cracking, resulting in minor scrapes, bruises and one sprained shoulder.

This recall involves Tern Eclipse S11i and Verge S11i, X10, X20 and X30h models.

It affects some specific models; less than 400 bikes, total; and the result was a grand total of four bikes actually failing, with minor injuries as a result.

Not sure this is worth discounting the entire brand...

Nightdiver

Thanks for some perspective. Internet fervor is really annoying, and sometimes dangerous in the disproportionate amount of damage it can cause.

downtube

How about the frame failures documented at Tern Link D8 frame shearing in two or at Tern Folding Bicycles Are Unfolding - Industry Outsider there are two undocumented reports of failures at the bottom of the latter article.

I believe smallwheeler has some pictures documenting some of these issues, and they are disturbing.

Thanks,
Yan

northernlights

Again the recall applied to first gen bikes. I don't know if 220 could be called a "mass recall." When a company makes a mistake then announcing a recall is the right thing to do. Would you rather they try to hide it?

mconlonx

I don't see that any of those are newer than 2-3 years ago. Could Tern have fixed the problems by now?

I also don't see any resolutions posted -- how were the complaints resolved? Frames replaced? Medical expenses covered?

I'm no expert, but I have welded aluminum and am familiar with manufacturing processes. It would not surprise me at all to learn that these were all produced in the same factory within the same time frame. And my educated guess is that they might have been using an incorrect filler rod while TIG/MTAW welding these bikes together. What we don't know and may never know is whether this was a mistake on Tern's end, where they spec'd the incorrect filler rod, or on the manufacturing end, where they either made incorrect assumptions on missing information, followed Tern instructions regarding a bad call on filler rod, or used the wrong type of filler on their end. There could also have been some kind of contamination which was not cleaned off either the filler or the tubes, an incorrect heat treatment used, or a limited number of other considerations.

Having worked in a bike shop, I have also seen failures in aluminum, steel, titanium, and carbon bikes. What is interesting on the Tern bikes is where the failure occurred -- at the weld, vs just off the weld in heat-affected tubing, which is a much more common failure mode in aluminum bikes.

ThorUSA

Mr Downtube is at it again ?


Have a wonderful New Year Yan .... I hope that you find peace with theta healing or chess or or and finally can overcome your personal vendetta against Josh Hon and his company Tern.

slickginger

Alright, let's be objective and stick to facts. Here is what we actually know:

In the U.S. (and Canada according to the site), the CPSC documented the following recalls:

Tern - 17 reported problems affecting 1065 bikes total
On June 27, 2013 Tern issued a recall covering 175 bikes for 2 cracked frames reported. Here is Tern's recall for that event. Effects Verge S11i, X10, X20, X30h, and Eclipse S11i, produced between September 2011 and March 2012.

On June 24, 2014 Tern issued another recall covering 670 bikes (650 in the US and 20 in Canada) for 11 cracked frames reported. Here is Tern's recall for that event. The recall is for select batches of bikes produced between August 2011 and April 2012. Models include: Link D7i, Link D8, Link D24, Link P7i Coaster Brake, Link P7i V-Brake, Link P9, Link P24h, Link Uno.

On April 26, 2016 Tern expanded the 2013 recall to cover 220 additional bikes after discovering 4 more cracked frames reported. Here is Tern's recall for that event. Effects Verge S11i, X10, X20, X30h, and Eclipse S11i, produced between March 2012 and July 2012.

That's what's actually happened so far. Tern has had total of 17 reports, all recalling frames that were built between August 2011 to July 2012. Less than a year span that was four years ago at the most recent. Now to give some additional perspective:

Dahon - 25 reported problems affecting 11,500 bikes
On May 12, 2009, Dahon issued a recall for 11,500 bikes after getting 25 reports of handlepost hinges cracking.

That's right, Dahon has issues too. And so does Brompton. And so does Downtube. And so does Bike Friday. The point is that folding bikes (and non-folding) at large have a history of cracking occasionally, and we would be wise to recognize this no matter what company you're a fan of. It does happen and will continue to happen. Make it a habit to inspect your frames regularly.

On a side note, I'm a design engineer for an aerospace company, do you think we would be in business if we had these kinds of failures? Hell no. This is a lazy industry that gets away with it because they can.

slickginger

Alright since I'm pretty new to the folder world I had some time to kill and decided to actually look into this. You know, with facts. Here is what we actually know (feel free to correct me here if you have more information):

In the U.S. (and Canada according to the site), the CPSC documented the following recalls:

Tern - 17 reported problems affecting 1065 bikes total
On June 27, 2013 Tern issued a recall covering 175 bikes for 2 cracked frames reported. Here is Tern's recall for that event. Effects Verge S11i, X10, X20, X30h, and Eclipse S11i, produced between September 2011 and March 2012.

On June 24, 2014 Tern issued another recall covering 670 bikes (650 in the US and 20 in Canada) for 11 cracked frames reported. Here is Tern's recall for that event. The recall is for select batches of bikes produced between August 2011 and April 2012. Models include: Link D7i, Link D8, Link D24, Link P7i Coaster Brake, Link P7i V-Brake, Link P9, Link P24h, Link Uno.

On April 26, 2016 Tern expanded the 2013 recall to cover 220 additional bikes after discovering 4 more cracked frames reported. Here is Tern's recall for that event. Effects Verge S11i, X10, X20, X30h, and Eclipse S11i, produced between March 2012 and July 2012.

That's what's actually happened so far. Tern has had total of 17 reports, all recalling frames that were built between August 2011 to July 2012. Less than a year span that was four years ago at the most recent. Now to give some additional perspective:

Dahon - 25 reported problems affecting 11,500 bikes
On May 12, 2009, Dahon issued a recall for 11,500 bikes after getting 25 reports of handlepost hinges cracking.

That's right, Dahon has issues too. And so does Brompton. And so does Downtube. And so does Bike Friday. The point is that folding bikes (and non-folding) at large have a history of cracking occasionally, and we would be wise to recognize this no matter what company you're a fan of. It does happen and will continue to happen. Make it a habit to inspect your frames regularly.

On a side note, I'm a design engineer for an aerospace company, do you think we would be in business if we had these kinds of failures?! Hell no. This is a lazy industry that gets away with it because they can.

slickginger

Alright since I'm pretty new to the folder world I had some time to kill and decided to actually look into this. You know, with facts. Here is what we actually know (feel free to correct me here if you have more information):

In the U.S. (and Canada according to the site), the CPSC documented the following recalls:

Tern - 17 reported problems affecting 1065 bikes total

On June 27, 2013 Tern issued a recall covering 175 bikes for 2 cracked frames reported. Here is Tern's recall for that event. Effects Verge S11i, X10, X20, X30h, and Eclipse S11i, produced between September 2011 and March 2012.

On June 24, 2014 Tern issued another recall covering 670 bikes (650 in the US and 20 in Canada) for 11 cracked frames reported. Here is Tern's recall for that event. The recall is for select batches of bikes produced between August 2011 and April 2012. Models include: Link D7i, Link D8, Link D24, Link P7i Coaster Brake, Link P7i V-Brake, Link P9, Link P24h, Link Uno.

On April 26, 2016 Tern expanded the 2013 recall to cover 220 additional bikes after discovering 4 more cracked frames reported. Here is Tern's recall for that event. Effects Verge S11i, X10, X20, X30h, and Eclipse S11i, produced between March 2012 and July 2012.

That's what's actually happened so far. Tern has had total of 17 reports, all recalling frames that were built between August 2011 to July 2012. Less than a year span that was four years ago at the most recent. Now to give some additional perspective:

Dahon - 25 reported problems affecting 11,500 bikes

On May 12, 2009, Dahon issued a recall for 11,500 bikes after getting 25 reports of handlepost hinges cracking.

That's right, Dahon has issues too. And so does Brompton. And so does Downtube. And so does Bike Friday. The point is that folding bikes (and non-folding) at large have a history of cracking occasionally, and we would be wise to recognize this no matter what company you're a fan of. It does happen and will continue to happen. Make it a habit to inspect your frames regularly.

On a side note, I'm a design engineer for an aerospace company, do you think we would be in business if we had these kinds of failures?! Hell no. This is a lazy industry that gets away with it because they can. Anyway, thanks for spurring on the opportunity to learn.

jur

Tha Dahon handlepost failures were due to bad design, not manufacturing.

The Terns frame cracking too. The frame tube to hinge plate weld design was way too marginal, or not designed at all, requiring perfect welds, and those don't exist, of course. I don't know if the weld has been redesigned to be less marginal. If all they did was try and improve welding quality, then that is still doomed to fail.

In both the above cases they passed bad design, which would have resulted in 100% recall, off as bad manufacturing to limit their loss. Dahon ditched that design soon after that. Tern were forced to expand their recall again and again as more frames snapped.

downtube

@slickginger Everyone makes mistakes, that is not the argument. Please read some of the thread at TERN BIKE FRAME FAILURES SO FAR 2014 and focus on Tern's responses. This thread was copied from Tern's site before it became private, hence it only has half of the relevant content. The rest of this thread was disappeared from Tern's site for about 6 months, then replaced with heavy moderation. Once you read you will understand this 'mistake' is not comparable to other 'mistakes'.

Thanks,
Yan

TheChosenOne

To unbiased, knowledgeable people on this subject....Are the newer Tern bikes (Node D8, etc.) safe to buy? I assume all bike shops removed the defective, recalled Tern bikes and Tern has found and fixed the problem(s). I hope this is the case. Seems like only only affordable big name bike brands are Tern and Dahon but hearing all these prob;ems makes me hesitant on buying either one of them.

wesgreen

After what I've read on the subject, I would never buy anything made by Tern.

tds101 

The issue people have isn't the fact that the frame faliures occurred. The issue is Tern's mishandling of it all. The denial, the censorship, the fact that a new batch of "old" framed bikes might be added to the list for 2017. This is why people don't trust Tern as a brand. If they would have supported their customers, and responded correctly, they wouldn't be getting so much hate.

slickginger

Can anyone show me this evidence of censorship or cover up? I'm curious to see what it was for.

So far it's ONLY 2011-2012 frames that have had the issues. I've got a Tern D7i that has been crack and issue free, and Tern has sold a ton of bikes for the past 4 years without a recall. Honestly if you ACTUALLY LOOK at the data neither Dahon or Tern are anything to worry about. Just buy one new or made in the last couple years and you're good.

slickginger

Oh yeah, and that site you linked Yan is pathetic. It basically take over my phone with spam, and there are 3 threads in the entire site with the most recent post being from 2014. Not only that but all the bikes on there appear to be recall frames, although it doesn't say when they were manufactured so they're literally useless posts.

Again I want to be clear: I am not a Tern fanboy. I am in the process of making a video documenting how bad folders actually are compared to what they advertise to a newbie like myself. But I also don't think it's justified to panic over 17 failures that were built over 4 years ago without issues since out of the thousands they've made. That's not logic, that's paranoia.

BruceMetras

If you go to the Tern Forum, look at the Recall Announcement section, there are over 160 posts from Josh Hon's initial June 2014 recall notice continuing on until December 2016 where Steve Root got a replacement frame for his Verge S11i late 2016 .. he noted frame gusseting improvements on the replacement frame.. so Tern continues to make improvements .. there were many reported instances of frames breaking as noted on this forum as well as the Tern forum.. unfortunately there are frames that were recalled that didn't get replaced.. so some are still breaking in half .. those types of posts can be found currently on the Tern forum .. if you have a bike frame that is part of the recall, get it replaced.. I think Tern is pretty liberal about getting improved frames in the hands of those with affected frames..

tds101 

Apparently NOW Tern is trying to do right, but is it a bit too late? Maybe, maybe not. I won't purchase another Tern. I luv the one I have, but I don't have confidence in the brand. And that sux,...

slickginger

Understandable, and that's the damage they've caused themselves. We're all entitled to buy whatever we want, and the market will truly decide if they sink or swim.

downtube

Bruce,

I read that thread and it comes off innocently as one mistake followed by another, with some serious issues popping up in between.

However the thread at https://www.ternbicycles.com/us/forum...e-shearing-two is completely different. The thread has been closed off to new posts for a long time, so it is hard to find ( that's an issue ). It starts out innocently, but soon it seems there is something nefarious going on. The end is just ridiculous with trolls supporting Tern ( with their response to ignore the problem ).

Please understand you must create an account to view this thread...it was public in early 2014, but become private as the frame problems started to snowball. Then it became very heavily moderated, and finally it went completely offline for a very long time ( I would estimate 6+ months ).

Thanks,
Yan