Jens Voigt's Position...what do you think?
08-24-13, 10:04 PM
#76
Peloton Shelter Dog
Bear in mind that this is a pro cyclist for the better part of 20 years who has been on major pro teams most of which had close relationships with major bicycle manufacturers. These guys spend a considerable amount of time being fawned over by factory reps who are experts on bike fit, and then in wind tunnel testing, etc, etc. I'm highly confident Jens' fit has been uber-analyzed to death by several different major bicycle firms.
Ultimately half of this bike fit voodoo is utter bull**** anyway, it's what works for YOU.
Ultimately half of this bike fit voodoo is utter bull**** anyway, it's what works for YOU.
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08-24-13, 10:05 PM
#77
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This thread really raised the 41 Idiot Bar to unprecedented heights.
Who would have even that that possible?
Well done.
Who would have even that that possible?
Well done.
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08-25-13, 05:36 AM
#78
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Bear in mind that this is a pro cyclist for the better part of 20 years who has been on major pro teams most of which had close relationships with major bicycle manufacturers. These guys spend a considerable amount of time being fawned over by factory reps who are experts on bike fit, and then in wind tunnel testing, etc, etc. I'm highly confident Jens' fit has been uber-analyzed to death by several different major bicycle firms.
Ultimately half of this bike fit voodoo is utter bull**** anyway, it's what works for YOU.
Ultimately half of this bike fit voodoo is utter bull**** anyway, it's what works for YOU.
08-25-13, 06:31 PM
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He's got a short torso and long legs. The UCI doesn't allow the saddle tip forward the bottom bracket (even with an anatomical exception). Very leggy people like that would probably be benefited by a forward saddle to avoid the elbow/knee overlap (though this would affect weight distribution adversely). The overlap can be a control issue too: one of our local track racers has a knee/elbow overlap; during a race he moved his elbow in reaction to another rider (or was bumped; was unclear from watching); his knee hit his elbow and his bike was pushed way off line from the hit.
Definitely not ideal, but I am not sure what a person with these types of body dimensions is to do about it.
I have the opposite problem. My legs are short relative to my body which forces me to larger frame sizes and makes it difficult to get the bars low enough depending on the brand of frame. This new trend of sloped top tubes has not made it better.
Definitely not ideal, but I am not sure what a person with these types of body dimensions is to do about it.
I have the opposite problem. My legs are short relative to my body which forces me to larger frame sizes and makes it difficult to get the bars low enough depending on the brand of frame. This new trend of sloped top tubes has not made it better.
08-25-13, 06:35 PM
#80
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08-25-13, 06:40 PM
#81
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As to the reason. Well, the UCI want to control the aesthetic of cycling and are concerned that if they let people move their saddles closer to the bottom bracket they would rotate their positons around said BB toward looking increasingly like superman. We must all ride like Eddy did. So sayeth the UCI. Amen.
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Last edited by bigfred; 08-25-13 at 06:59 PM.
08-25-13, 06:45 PM
#82
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If that observation lowers your bar, look inward young Fredling.
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08-25-13, 09:00 PM
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Jens - a tall guy, long legs and arms, short torso.
his position is not that crunched up for him
here's his bike, his setup specs
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/a...-series-36321/
note the saddlesetback and saddle to bar dim...
short torso and long legs usually means a lot more setup options when it come to reach - my take...
seems to work for him
his position is not that crunched up for him
here's his bike, his setup specs
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/a...-series-36321/
note the saddlesetback and saddle to bar dim...
short torso and long legs usually means a lot more setup options when it come to reach - my take...
seems to work for him
Relatively tall, long legs, long arms, short torso, and my position is a lot like Jens' as well. I also ride a lot like Je....well.....I ride a lot.
08-25-13, 09:17 PM
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He's got a short torso and long legs. The UCI doesn't allow the saddle tip forward the bottom bracket (even with an anatomical exception). Very leggy people like that would probably be benefited by a forward saddle to avoid the elbow/knee overlap (though this would affect weight distribution adversely). The overlap can be a control issue too: one of our local track racers has a knee/elbow overlap; during a race he moved his elbow in reaction to another rider (or was bumped; was unclear from watching); his knee hit his elbow and his bike was pushed way off line from the hit.
Definitely not ideal, but I am not sure what a person with these types of body dimensions is to do about it.
I have the opposite problem. My legs are short relative to my body which forces me to larger frame sizes and makes it difficult to get the bars low enough depending on the brand of frame. This new trend of sloped top tubes has not made it better.
Definitely not ideal, but I am not sure what a person with these types of body dimensions is to do about it.
I have the opposite problem. My legs are short relative to my body which forces me to larger frame sizes and makes it difficult to get the bars low enough depending on the brand of frame. This new trend of sloped top tubes has not made it better.
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08-25-13, 09:36 PM
#85
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I have the opposite problem. My legs are short relative to my body which forces me to larger frame sizes and makes it difficult to get the bars low enough depending on the brand of frame. This new trend of sloped top tubes has not made it better.
is this a serious question?
is this a serious question?
08-25-13, 09:46 PM
#86
Senior Member
Most manufacturers have used a sloped top tube to increase the head tube length. This make it challenging for me to fit to a frame, requiring me to choose between handlebar drop, reach, and bike handling (stem length). It took a while to get the bike right after my level top tube 2007 5.2 Madone was warrantee replaced with a sloped top tube 2013 4.7 Madone. I went from a size 58cm to a size 56, replaced the stock headset cap with a low profile (and slammed the stem), the 120mm stem with a 130, and moved the saddle forward a cm or so. It all worked out, but it took a while and some experimenting to get right.
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"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 08-25-13 at 09:51 PM.
08-25-13, 10:25 PM
#87
Senior Member
If you have an anatomical exception, which most if not all of the pros you see on TV have, you can have the saddle nose even with the BB center.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
08-25-13, 10:28 PM
#88
Senior Member
Do you know the criteria for the anatomical exception? I thought there wasn't one, not even for TT'ing. Unlike the forward limit of the bars, which allows you the extra 5cm as long as your elbow angle does not exceed 120deg.
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08-25-13, 10:32 PM
#89
Senior Member
Never mind. I found it. I would be surprised if it was any help to the long legged guys. Most of them will be Knee ahead of pedal spindle at 5cm of setback unless they're running really long cranks. Now I understand why it hadn't stuck in my head. It's a rule for the shorter riders. Just as the handlebar exception is there for the tall/long riders.
"The peak of the saddle shall be a minimum of 5 cm to the rear of a vertical plane passing through the bottom bracket spindle (1). This restriction shall not be applied to the bicycle ridden by a rider in a Flying 200 m, Flying Lap, Team Sprint, track sprint event, keirin, 500 metres or 1 kilometre time trials; however, in no circumstances shall the peak of the saddle extend in front of a vertical line passing through the bottom bracket spindle.
(1) The distances mentioned in footnote (1) to articles 1.3.013 and 1.3.016 above may be reduced where that is necessary for morphological reasons. By morphological reasons should be understood everything to do with the size and limb length of the rider.
Any rider who, for these reasons, considers that he needs to use a bicycle of lesser dimensions than those given shall inform the commissaires' panel to that effect when presenting his licence. In that case, the panel may conduct the following test. Using a plumb-line, they shall check to see whether, when pedalling, the point of the rider's knee when at its foremost position passes beyond a vertical line passing through the pedal spindle (see diagram «Measurements (2)»)."
"The peak of the saddle shall be a minimum of 5 cm to the rear of a vertical plane passing through the bottom bracket spindle (1). This restriction shall not be applied to the bicycle ridden by a rider in a Flying 200 m, Flying Lap, Team Sprint, track sprint event, keirin, 500 metres or 1 kilometre time trials; however, in no circumstances shall the peak of the saddle extend in front of a vertical line passing through the bottom bracket spindle.
(1) The distances mentioned in footnote (1) to articles 1.3.013 and 1.3.016 above may be reduced where that is necessary for morphological reasons. By morphological reasons should be understood everything to do with the size and limb length of the rider.
Any rider who, for these reasons, considers that he needs to use a bicycle of lesser dimensions than those given shall inform the commissaires' panel to that effect when presenting his licence. In that case, the panel may conduct the following test. Using a plumb-line, they shall check to see whether, when pedalling, the point of the rider's knee when at its foremost position passes beyond a vertical line passing through the pedal spindle (see diagram «Measurements (2)»)."
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08-25-13, 10:37 PM
#90
Senior Member
Originally Posted by www.slowtwitch.com
...
The rule provides for what's called a morphological exception, and if a rider is especially short, or has a short femur, he or she can apply to have the saddle moved forward of that spot.
How is such an application made, and how often is it granted? According to the rules, the riders are given a "test" by the commissaires prior to the race. You pedal the bike, and the forward protrusion of your knee cannot pass in front of the pedal axle. Of course, you simply ride on the rearward part of the saddle during the test. As one highly-placed federation technical director put, "Everyone who takes the test passes, and these people get to ride a position unavailable to the naive or unaware."
...
https://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadin...tr/tt_fit.html
The rule provides for what's called a morphological exception, and if a rider is especially short, or has a short femur, he or she can apply to have the saddle moved forward of that spot.
How is such an application made, and how often is it granted? According to the rules, the riders are given a "test" by the commissaires prior to the race. You pedal the bike, and the forward protrusion of your knee cannot pass in front of the pedal axle. Of course, you simply ride on the rearward part of the saddle during the test. As one highly-placed federation technical director put, "Everyone who takes the test passes, and these people get to ride a position unavailable to the naive or unaware."
...
https://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadin...tr/tt_fit.html
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
08-25-13, 10:40 PM
#91
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I need a longer saddle.
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08-26-13, 02:06 AM
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Check out Jens Voigt's position in the drops below.
Do you guys run this much arm/knee overlap in the drops?
Granted he is riding the rivet to open his hip angle a bit but seem like his handlebar is in awfully close.
Who is to quibble with a top pro but what do you guys think?
Do you guys run this much arm/knee overlap in the drops?
Granted he is riding the rivet to open his hip angle a bit but seem like his handlebar is in awfully close.
Who is to quibble with a top pro but what do you guys think?
08-26-13, 06:16 AM
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I have the opposite problem. My legs are short relative to my body which forces me to larger frame sizes and makes it difficult to get the bars low enough depending on the brand of frame. This new trend of sloped top tubes has not made it better.
is this a serious question?
is this a serious question?
__________________
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08-26-13, 06:19 AM
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Most manufacturers have used a sloped top tube to increase the head tube length. This make it challenging for me to fit to a frame, requiring me to choose between handlebar drop, reach, and bike handling (stem length). It took a while to get the bike right after my level top tube 2007 5.2 Madone was warrantee replaced with a sloped top tube 2013 4.7 Madone. I went from a size 58cm to a size 56, replaced the stock headset cap with a low profile (and slammed the stem), the 120mm stem with a 130, and moved the saddle forward a cm or so. It all worked out, but it took a while and some experimenting to get right.
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08-26-13, 02:02 PM
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08-27-13, 04:05 AM
#99
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I don't know what you're talking about here, but then, that makes two of us.
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08-27-13, 04:17 AM
#100
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It's like he's in his very own class of Arrogant Idiot.
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