Hadley, Mass. poised to settle federal case with bicycle advocate; agrees to pay...
#76
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,924
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3352 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times
in
635 Posts
Just one overridding point comes to mind in this case. It clearly says it was a 4 lane road. How can traffic be "impeaded" when all the drivers have to do is pass on the inside lane on the left?
#77
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,924
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3352 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times
in
635 Posts
One other thing occurs to me, Damon actually did cyclist everywhere a service. Other towns with pigheaded police that dont know the law will take notice.
#78
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 1,060
Bikes: 2012 Motobecane Fantom CXX, 2012 Motobecane Fantom CX, 1997 Bianchi Nyala, 200? Burley Rock 'n Roll
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I've since learned to avoid such confrontations and so far have managed to cope with authoritative ignorance with some finesse.
Should I fail to do so and it results in a citation or arrest I will most certainly turn to the wisdom of the self appointed experts in the A&S sub-forum of BF for help and for your assistance in particular.
Should I fail to do so and it results in a citation or arrest I will most certainly turn to the wisdom of the self appointed experts in the A&S sub-forum of BF for help and for your assistance in particular.
#79
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,530
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2112 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times
in
443 Posts
You're not offering logic. You're offering assertions and ignorance.
Here's an example (2, really) of cycling on the shoulder not being in accordance with traffic law:
https://walkbikejersey.blogspot.com/2...riding-in.html
Here's an example (2, really) of cycling on the shoulder not being in accordance with traffic law:
https://walkbikejersey.blogspot.com/2...riding-in.html
And contrary to the blogger's assertion that cycling on the shoulder is illegal in New Jersey, cyclists on the shoulder simply "do not have special privileges."
And lets get to the "privileges" of cyclists in New Jersey.
Far more concern in Polzo v County of Essex, the New Jersey Supreme Court ruled that roads are for cars, trucks, and motorcycles, not bicycles. So a road hazard that is a hazard to bicycles, but not to cars, trucks or motorcycles, well, the commonwealth and its subdivisions is simply not liable. (Oddly, it seems that the only place the Commonwealth of New Jersey has responsibility to cyclists is designated bike lanes. Not even MUPs.)
-mr. bill
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 464
Bikes: Sun EZ-Speedster SX, Volae Expedition
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Far more concern in Polzo v County of Essex, the New Jersey Supreme Court ruled that roads are for cars, trucks, and motorcycles, not bicycles. So a road hazard that is a hazard to bicycles, but not to cars, trucks or motorcycles, well, the commonwealth and its subdivisions is simply not liable. (Oddly, it seems that the only place the Commonwealth of New Jersey has responsibility to cyclists is designated bike lanes. Not even MUPs.)
-mr. bill
-mr. bill
https://law.justia.com/cases/new-jers...2/a-74-10.html
3. In deciding whether the County was on notice of a dangerous condition on the roadway s shoulder, the Court considers basic principles of law governing roadways. The Motor Vehicle Code provides that a roadway is the portion of highway generally used for vehicular travel; the shoulder borders the roadway and is for emergency use; and vehicles are not bicycles. Bicyclists are directed to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. While they may be inclined to ride on the shoulder, they have no special privileges if they do
4. ...Plaintiff offered no evidence that the shoulder was routinely used as a bicycle lane, which might implicate a different standard of care. The generally intended purpose of the shoulder is for emergency use.
5. Even if the County had notice that the depression was a dangerous condition, a reasonable jury could not find that the failure to repair it was palpably unreasonable...A public entity might reasonably give lesser priority to the shoulder of a roadway, which is not intended for ordinary travel.
4. ...Plaintiff offered no evidence that the shoulder was routinely used as a bicycle lane, which might implicate a different standard of care. The generally intended purpose of the shoulder is for emergency use.
5. Even if the County had notice that the depression was a dangerous condition, a reasonable jury could not find that the failure to repair it was palpably unreasonable...A public entity might reasonably give lesser priority to the shoulder of a roadway, which is not intended for ordinary travel.
https://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/39-...ic-regulation/
39:1-1 Words and phrases defined.
...
"Driver" means the rider or driver of a horse, bicycle or motorcycle or the driver or operator of a motor vehicle, unless otherwise specified.
...
"Roadway" means that portion of a highway improved, designed, or ordinarily used for vehicular travel, exclusive of the berm or shoulder. In the event a highway includes two or more separate roadways, the term "roadway" as used herein shall refer to any such roadway separately, but not to all such roadways, collectively.
...
"Driver" means the rider or driver of a horse, bicycle or motorcycle or the driver or operator of a motor vehicle, unless otherwise specified.
...
"Roadway" means that portion of a highway improved, designed, or ordinarily used for vehicular travel, exclusive of the berm or shoulder. In the event a highway includes two or more separate roadways, the term "roadway" as used herein shall refer to any such roadway separately, but not to all such roadways, collectively.
39:4-14.1 Rights, duties of bicycle riders on roadways, exemptions.
16. a. Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by chapter four of Title 39 of the Revised Statutes and all supplements thereto except as to those provisions thereof which by their nature can have no application.
Regulations applicable to bicycles shall apply whenever a bicycle is operated upon any highway or upon any path set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles subject to those exceptions stated herein.
b.A law enforcement officer operating a bicycle while in the performance of his duty, and who is engaged in the apprehension of violators of the law or of persons charged with, or suspected of, a violation shall not be subject to the provisions of this section.
L.1951,c.23,s.16; amended 1999, c.283.
39:4-14.2. Keeping to right; exceptions; single file
Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable, exercising due care when passing a standing vehicle or one proceeding in the same direction; provided, however, that any person may move to the left under any of the following situations:
(a) to make a left turn from a left-turn lane or pocket;
(b) to avoid debris, drains or other hazardous conditions that make it impracticable to ride at the right side of the roadway;
(c) to pass a slower moving vehicle;
(d) to occupy any available lane when traveling at the same speed as other traffic;
(e) to travel no more than two abreast when traffic is not impeded.
Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may travel no more than two abreast when traffic is not impeded, but otherwise shall ride in single file except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.
16. a. Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by chapter four of Title 39 of the Revised Statutes and all supplements thereto except as to those provisions thereof which by their nature can have no application.
Regulations applicable to bicycles shall apply whenever a bicycle is operated upon any highway or upon any path set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles subject to those exceptions stated herein.
b.A law enforcement officer operating a bicycle while in the performance of his duty, and who is engaged in the apprehension of violators of the law or of persons charged with, or suspected of, a violation shall not be subject to the provisions of this section.
L.1951,c.23,s.16; amended 1999, c.283.
39:4-14.2. Keeping to right; exceptions; single file
Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable, exercising due care when passing a standing vehicle or one proceeding in the same direction; provided, however, that any person may move to the left under any of the following situations:
(a) to make a left turn from a left-turn lane or pocket;
(b) to avoid debris, drains or other hazardous conditions that make it impracticable to ride at the right side of the roadway;
(c) to pass a slower moving vehicle;
(d) to occupy any available lane when traveling at the same speed as other traffic;
(e) to travel no more than two abreast when traffic is not impeded.
Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may travel no more than two abreast when traffic is not impeded, but otherwise shall ride in single file except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.
#81
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,924
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3352 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times
in
635 Posts
It occurs to me that after the dust up in Blackhawk Co, cities and their B'crats would have learned their lesson. But it seems that the bike haters always have a few members on the city councils.
A question-------------------are there any states that dont allow bicycles all the rights of auto traffic?
A question-------------------are there any states that dont allow bicycles all the rights of auto traffic?
#82
Senior Member
Yup, and taxpayers got royally screwed, all because one guy wanted to hog a lane on a bike going 15mph.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#83
24-Speed Machine
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Posts: 6,058
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
It occurs to me that after the dust up in Blackhawk Co, cities and their B'crats would have learned their lesson. But it seems that the bike haters always have a few members on the city councils.
A question-------------------are there any states that dont allow bicycles all the rights of auto traffic?
A question-------------------are there any states that dont allow bicycles all the rights of auto traffic?
But that is pursuant to riding a bike on the sidewalk. As far as the traffic laws in specific, that I am aware of, the same applies in all jurisdictions(except for the sidewalk).
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,259
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4245 Post(s)
Liked 1,351 Times
in
937 Posts
You're not offering logic. You're offering assertions and ignorance.
Here's an example (2, really) of cycling on the shoulder not being in accordance with traffic law:
https://walkbikejersey.blogspot.com/2...riding-in.html
Here's an example (2, really) of cycling on the shoulder not being in accordance with traffic law:
https://walkbikejersey.blogspot.com/2...riding-in.html
No.
In the Batista case, the cyclist would (likely) have gotten the ticket even if he had been riding in the roadway. In the other case, there wasn't any determination that you could not choose to ride in the shoulder. It only determined that you could not expect that the state was required to make it suitable for riding.
Last edited by njkayaker; 12-09-13 at 07:09 AM.
#87
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,924
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3352 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times
in
635 Posts
brian
The reason that the taxpayers got screwed is because of the cop and the administration that the taxpayers voted in. In effect the taxpayers screw themselves by bad decisions on who to vote for. Live and learn and try thinking for a change.
The reason that the taxpayers got screwed is because of the cop and the administration that the taxpayers voted in. In effect the taxpayers screw themselves by bad decisions on who to vote for. Live and learn and try thinking for a change.
#88
Senior Member
Careful now, I might have to report you...
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#89
Senior Member
I saw this guy's videos. I've ridden a lot of places. There was no need to be doing what he was doing.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#91
Senior Member
You talked before about the so-called "FRAP" laws... well, rude cyclists such as this guy are the reason why the general public is not persuaded that it is in everyone's best interest to fix these laws. So, thanks for that...
Seriously though, yes, there are legalities, but there are also politics regarding riding on the road, particularly if the road is unimproved for cycling. Vehicular cycling is fundamentally a negotiation between us and vehicles which are bigger, faster, and less maneuverable than us. Distracting drivers by taking up a shared facility without good reason when better alternatives exist is not really in anyone's best interest.
You folks would learn a lot by coming to Portland. Not the outer suburbs, and not the city core, but the surrounding old suburbs where there are a ton of cyclists, all making use of both cycling facilities and vehicular cycling techniques.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 12-10-13 at 01:21 AM.
#92
Cycle Year Round
Yup, I suppose I do (don't look too hard in the mirror though). People who ride like that make it so drivers allow me less leeway when I take the lane in truly difficult situations.
You talked before about the so-called "FRAP" laws... well, rude cyclists such as this guy are the reason why the general public is not persuaded that it is in everyone's best interest to fix these laws. So, thanks for that...
You talked before about the so-called "FRAP" laws... well, rude cyclists such as this guy are the reason why the general public is not persuaded that it is in everyone's best interest to fix these laws. So, thanks for that...
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#93
Senior Member
There were actually no "direct actions" by motorists in this instance. I am simply blaming the cyclist here. He was out to make a statement. I don't agree with his statement, especially as he purports to represent me. Not everything that is technically legal is right.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#94
Cycle Year Round
There were actually no "direct actions" by motorists in this instance. I am simply blaming the cyclist here. He was out to make a statement. I don't agree with his statement, especially as he purports to represent me. Not everything that is technically legal is right.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#96
Senior Member
Maybe so (about the police), god knows there aren't many people in this incident that come out looking good. Dude is no friend to cyclists' rights. My guess is someone in the Mass. legislature will start bringing up a FRAP law if you guys make a lot of noise about this. You'd better wish that nobody follows in this dude's footprints. Three guys riding like this will affect hundreds of people a day; a FRAP law will have very little effort achieving majority support. In turn, that will affect any effort in Oregon to overturn ours.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#97
New Orleans
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,794
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
The rider is certainly a jerk- fanatic-no one anyone would care to spend time with.
Thje cops were overly aggressive fools who didn't like their authority questioned
The TAXPAYERS- footed the bill.
$27,000 PLUS whatever the city county spent to pursue this BS-BETTING MORE than the $27,000 that he spent
Plus whatever it costs to run these various courts
So figure maybe $75,000-$100,000 for this BS
All paid for by taxpayers-a full years pay benefits for someone
AH+ AGGRESSIVE FOOLS =we foot the bill FOR $100,000
Thje cops were overly aggressive fools who didn't like their authority questioned
The TAXPAYERS- footed the bill.
$27,000 PLUS whatever the city county spent to pursue this BS-BETTING MORE than the $27,000 that he spent
Plus whatever it costs to run these various courts
So figure maybe $75,000-$100,000 for this BS
All paid for by taxpayers-a full years pay benefits for someone
AH+ AGGRESSIVE FOOLS =we foot the bill FOR $100,000
#98
Cycle Year Round
Maybe so (about the police), god knows there aren't many people in this incident that come out looking good. Dude is no friend to cyclists' rights. My guess is someone in the Mass. legislature will start bringing up a FRAP law if you guys make a lot of noise about this. You'd better wish that nobody follows in this dude's footprints. Three guys riding like this will affect hundreds of people a day; a FRAP law will have very little effort achieving majority support. In turn, that will affect any effort in Oregon to overturn ours.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#99
Cycle Year Round
The rider is certainly a jerk- fanatic-no one anyone would care to spend time with.
Thje cops were overly aggressive fools who didn't like their authority questioned
The TAXPAYERS- footed the bill.
$27,000 PLUS whatever the city county spent to pursue this BS-BETTING MORE than the $27,000 that he spent
Plus whatever it costs to run these various courts
So figure maybe $75,000-$100,000 for this BS
All paid for by taxpayers-a full years pay benefits for someone
AH+ AGGRESSIVE FOOLS =we foot the bill FOR $100,000
Thje cops were overly aggressive fools who didn't like their authority questioned
The TAXPAYERS- footed the bill.
$27,000 PLUS whatever the city county spent to pursue this BS-BETTING MORE than the $27,000 that he spent
Plus whatever it costs to run these various courts
So figure maybe $75,000-$100,000 for this BS
All paid for by taxpayers-a full years pay benefits for someone
AH+ AGGRESSIVE FOOLS =we foot the bill FOR $100,000
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#100
New Orleans
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,794
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Court more or less did-but $100,000 too late.
Guessing a little town like that-not a lot of serious crime-so cops apparently had lots of time on their hands.
Most places-cops would warn him-suggest he do it differently-drive off and forget about it.Sure as heck not going to waste time on BS like that.
It would be one of those self correcting situations. If what he was doing was sooooo dangerous-he would eventually pay a price.
If not-who cares.
The bike rider was baiting them-and they swallowed it whole. Just dumb