Thrift

Hi! Long time lurker here, looking for advice on choosing a touring bike. I currently have a converted 1991 trek multitrack 700 hybrid that has served me well on a 700 mile tour and lots of commuting, but I don't trust it for a big trip, for several reasons. I do like the way it rides both loaded and unloaded.

https://i860.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps6heiuwml.jpg
Sorry for the awful picture, I could get a better one on request.

I'm currently planning a 2 month tour in New Zealand in April-May, and want a solid bike I can trust to be reliable. I'm primarily looking to buy a new frame and transfer components from my current tourer, but I'm also open to buying used bikes on craigslist. I would like to spend under $1000 for a frame and a nice wheelset, but I don't have a set limit. The less money I spend on the bike, the more I can spend in New Zealand.

This bike will be seriously used as a heavily loaded tourer, with front and rear panniers. It will also be used for year-round commuting in Minnesota, cyclocross-style off-road and gravel riding, and lots of unloaded road riding. If I get a 29er touring bike I will definitely do some off-road tours at some point. It has to be lively enough for me to enjoy riding it unloaded in these other situations.

I guess I'm looking for an adventure-touring/trekking type bike, somewhere between road touring and off-road touring.


CRITERIA
-I need stable geometry for 40+ pounds of gear (plus 200 pounds of me).
-I need drop-bar geometry that I can set up via stem/steerer tube changes from relatively relaxed touring to a more aggressive road position. I'll tour with around 1-2" of saddle to bar drop, and up to 3" when not touring.
-I want as many braze-ons as possible. Pump peg, spoke holders etc. would be nice. Along with good rack and fender options.
-My first choice is disc brakes, mostly because they won't chew through nice rims in the winter. I've dealt with awful brakes in bad weather my whole life, but If I'm spending over 4 times more on this bike than any bike I've had before, I might as well get nice brakes, right? The price of disc brakes is not something I’m worried about. I'd like to hear some opinions on rim vs disc.
-I want the largest tire clearances possible to increase its versatility. I'll tour on it with 32s most likely, but I'll need more clearance for winter riding with fenders.
-I will be happy with a garden variety chro-moly frame, but I really want to explore more choices with nicer tube sets.
-If I can find a frame that fits my criteria and also has s&s couplers, I may be willing to pay up for them. To those of you who have them, does the money saved in shipping make them worth it? Do they decrease the frame stiffness and durability at all?
-I would like more stand over clearance than a traditional frame. I ride a 58cm road bike, and a level top tube 58cm frame has too little stand over height for technical riding. I could live with it though.
-If possible I would like a higher bottom bracket height than a classic road touring bike. My current trek has mountain bike-like bottom bracket clearance, and I like it for the off-road and cornering advantages.
-This will be a geared bike, but horizontal dropouts are a bonus.


Here are a few of the options I'm considering. This is absolutely not the only bikes I'll buy, just the ones I'm familiar with.

Surly LHT/disc trucker
I could order a new frame, get a complete 56cm disc trucker on craigslist ($1200), a 58cm LHT with full touring gear (panniers, handlebar and trunk bags) ($1800, I'd try to get that lower)
-pros: has all the braze-ons and features, good price, good enough tire clearance
-cons: sub-optimal tubing, might be sluggish for everyday road riding, high stand over height (could get a 56 instead of a 58 to help with this), everyone and their mother has a surly

Salsa vaya
I could get a new frame or a 58cm vaya 3 on cl for 950
-pros: good stand over height,
-cons: minimal braze ons, suboptimal tubing, average tire clearance

Salsa Fargo
I could get a new frameset or get a 22 in. Fargo 3 for $1020 on cl
-pros: incredible tire clearance, good bottom bracket and stand over clearance
-cons: being a mountain bike, it probably isn't too nice to ride it as a road bike, right? I also may not be able to set the bars low enough.

Surly ogre
Same thoughts as the Fargo. If it rides nicely on the road, it would be perfect.

Surly straggler
Is it strong enough and stable enough for loaded touring?

What other options are there?


Wheelset
I'm planning to have a wheelset built somewhere locally. If I go with rim brakes, I'll use 36 hole velocity dyad rims, whatever butted spokes the builder recommends, and some shimano 6-bolt disc hubs. Will 36 hole be good enough for me or should I go with 40 in the rear? What I need help with is which level of hubs to get (lx? xt?) and what rims to use if I go with disc brakes. Is it worth getting disc- specific rims for strength and weight, or just use the dyads for a wheelset compatible with both brakes? I've heard good things about the dyads, are there better rims out there for the money? Aesthetics wise, I only want silver wheel components.


I'm sorry that this post is so long, I may be over thinking this. I appreciate any information or suggestions, especially if you have personal experience with a bike that fits my criteria.

boomhauer

You are totally over thinking this. You've already got the most awesome tour bike in your possesion. I wish my Trek Hybird 7200 looked like that. I rode mine 15,000 miles so far on the original factory wheels and hub. The frame is about the least important worry.

New wheels seems to be the answer. I know you want to start spending money.....

irwin7638

I had an LHT and upgraded the frame to a Riv Hunqapillar because it was designed as an all terrain touring bike. It's a bit beyond your quoted price, but I doubt you will be disappointed or filled with regret.

Ridefreemc

It looks like your Trek is too small for you. Lots of seatpost showing and a very long stem/handlbar position. The Surly Straggler has a longer head tube that you might like, but it is a straight top tube and they are hard to come by right now (and you may not like purple or black frames). If you are looking for almost the same thing, but sloping top tube look at the Salsa Vaya. It has good tire clearance, sloping top tube, disc brakes, all the braze ons except pump peg, chain holder, and spoke holder. I have one in a 56 for sale if you are interested (in the for sale forum). It has been a great bike for commuting, fast and recreational riding, as well as some shorter tours that I have taken. I'm only selling it because I wanted a straight top tube and just was ready for a change (I like new bikes).

LeeG

Nix the LHT, 700c version will not give top tube clearance you seek and handling is slow, not right for off road. 40lbs is a lot and takes you right out of the cross/light tour category. CrossCheck not stiff enough for that size load, if Straggler is similar same issue as well as. SS couplers push the budget with the other criteria.

closest thing that comes to mind is Troll, Ogre, Salsa variants with Extrawheel trailer for off-road and heavy loads. I'd lean towards 26" wheel with SS couplers if traveling packability and very heavy load carrying is more important than unloaded road riding use.

I'd get feedback from folks around your size who have loaded their bikes with 40lbs to see if it worked well.

my gut sense is that a bike and wheels that carries your weight and 40lbs well in rough conditions will be a tank for unloaded commuting and road riding but durability sounds like a top priority in which case have two sets of wheels and tires.

"lots of unloaded road riding" plus "carry 40lbs" plus fast cyclo cross is a heck of a range. A trailer can give you the load carrier and light road/cross bike.
I don't know how you get :" It has to be lively enough for me to enjoy riding it unloaded in these other situations. " and have the capability to carry four panniers on rough roads. Maybe that bike is out there. If you cut the touring load to 30lbs, use a frame bag and go to one set of panniers I think you'll get closer to the do-all bike.

The frame that can carry that load sounds more like a Thorn Nomad

pump and spare spoke pegs aren't that important given the availability of putting them anywhere whereas the utility of different frame bags takes space the pump peg is designed for.

for carrying 40lbs and world travel there's no need getting the lightest rims. Dyads would be fine for all the other uses but for packing, unpacking, dropping, slipping, falling and possibly rough road riding just get heavy cheap Rhynolites or similar.

fietsbob

https://www.bikefriday.com/bicycles/touring packs in a suitcase, for easy transport,
in comparison to schlepping a big bike box around , till the bike is rolling along, under you.

An efficient JIT Manufactured, Just in your size near Custom bike

now offered in a heavy rider NWT version the diamond 24 shown , I have a Pocket Llama
drive train choices too.. mine has a Rohloff IGH..

Of course if you order a custom frame not an offshore factory made one

You can ask for all your things on the list , before it's built, and they will build it like that .

Top shelf : Bruce Gordon (his racks on his frame)

and CoMotion , they fit Tubus Racks on their touring builds .

unchewable

Maybe have your current bike sanded checked for stability then powder coated. I am looking for something like you and decided on the fyxation quiver frameset because I will be using as a commuter and grocery getter more then bike packing and I am going frame bags instead of paniers this one does not have braze ons for gear on the front fork but does on rear stays. I will be doing mainly single over nighters. Here is my thinking.

You won't get anything for your current frame. leaving you 2 options get a dedicated touring frame or completed bike or get a lighter more snappy bike and get a trailer. I have 2 trailers one for my kids one for cargo and have towed 130lbs for short distances on that.

mtn.cyclist

I am down to one bike and it is a 29er hardtail mt. bike. Lightweight so it makes an acceptable road bike, perfectly adequate for touring/bikepacking, and a superb off road bike. Here it is in partial road/touring set up. Tires make all the difference. Good luck!

grolby

Hmmm, I don't think I agree. The LHT doesn't have any slower steering than a cyclocross bike would - go check it out. The Straggler has the same head tube angle as the Disc Trucker, the Trucker actually has a mm more of fork rake and a shorter fork. That works out to less trail. The major difference is in wheelbase, which is substantially longer on the LHT. I never found that to be a problem for basic trail riding on my LHT, when I had one. It's not at all the ideal tool for the job, but the bike HAS to be up to heavily loaded touring, and I think the LHT is a much better choice for that than a cyclocross-style bike like the Straggler.

I do agree that this range of uses is a heck of a lot to ask of one bike. The demands are just too divergent for one bike to be great at all of them. I think if you are planning to do long, loaded tours, that use case really has to take priority. Having a stiff, strong touring frame makes a big difference, in my own experience. I've done loaded tours with a spindly 1980's Miyata 210 and a burly, modern Surly LHT, and the difference in confidence, stability and handling with essentially identical equipment and loading was pretty significant. I would much rather take 40 lbs of gear down a mountain road on a dedicated touring bike than anything else.

The trade-off is that you just have to accept that there will be better bikes for the other things you want to do. A well-designed touring bike is going to ride a bit harshly when unloaded, because it has to be stiff to do its job well when laden down with gear at each end. Still, the LHT is a pretty good choice for commuting, gravel and non-technical trails. And the nice thing about bikes is, they're all bikes. A loaded touring bike isn't a truck. It will certainly work for more spirited, unloaded riding. It just won't be as thrilling, nimble or fast as a true road bike, and certainly not as light. Don't expect miracles and you will be very happy.

bradtx

Thrift, While your 700 looks a bit small for you: unless you're just tired of looking at it a complete overhaul, paint and updating maybe all that's needed. I write this because you appear happy with the fit and comfort (True?). A new wheelset with a dynamo hub, a heavy duty rear rack and perhaps a set of linear pull brakes (travel agent or new brake levers required) all while still remaining within your budget.

If you want a new bike I'll suggest a couple. The Raleigh Sojourn mainly for the Reynolds 631 tubing, but it comes with disk brakes, fenders and a rear rack. The Trek 520 now has a more touring oriented drive train, but uses rim brakes and no fenders. There are several other makes and models, including the budget tourers from Bikes Direct and Performance. The biggest advantage to a new bike is that the old one can be used for foul weather and off road touring.

Brad

LeeG

Just going from my experience riding a 56cm LHT with 700c wheels for a year, a 56cm CrossCheck for four years and a 56cm LHT with 26" wheels for three. The LHT is a stellar load carrier for the money, hands down But the two LHTs do not handle alike. I can pick a precise course though obstacles with the CrossCheck and the 26" wheeled LHT. Loaded down the CrossCheck gets wobbly but the LHT doesn't. With the 700c LHT loaded or unloaded tight quarter handling is slow like driving a bus. Loaded or unloaded when I try to weave around obstacles I overshoot as though the bike is much longer even though it's got a shorter wheelbase than the 26" wheel LHT.

no idea if the larger LHT have as distinct a difference between 26" and 700c version.

pataspen

Thirft, I was a lot like you. I've always been looking for a better touring bike.

I started touring in 1978 on a 10-speed Schwinn, moved onto a '83 Centurion and finally a '92 Trek OCLV. None of the bikes were perfect. I loved the Trek, but the geometry was a little off for touring. On a recent ride down the Alaska Highway the bottom bracket threads came loose. Trek offered to replace the frame for free, but shipping to Canada was going to take a few weeks due to customs, so I bought a Long Haul Trucker frame and continued on to Colorado. (A brand new Madone was waiting for me when I got home. Nice customer service).

I did not like the LHT at all. Like you, I ride with a big saddle to handlebar drop and the huge head tube on the LHT made me sit way too upright. So for the remainder of the trip I got to thinking what the perfect touring frame would be.

Over the winter I started learning about frame geometry and started playing with a bikeCAD program. Once I came up with a blueprint I contacted XACD in China. They make custom titanium bikes. Like you, I had a lot of specific criteria; i.e. triple bottle mounts, rack mounts, over-sized tubing, long top tube, short head tube, etc. The bike came out amazingly well... perfect size, clean welds. I only have 1600 miles touring on it so far, but it has been great. Their rep, Porter, isn't the easiest to deal with, but I knew that going in.

So for you I would suggest looking into a custom frame. You can dial it in exactly as you want.

As for price, I don't think you are supposed to state that on this forum. But it will fit in your stated criteria of "I would like to spend under $1000 for a frame and a nice wheelset". Maybe not enough extra for a really nice wheelset, but at least a decent wheelset.

irwin7638

That was my experience with the 700c LHT. I always felt like I was steering slowly to get through turns rather than leaning through them quickly. The handling was the biggest difference between that and the Hunq.

Marc

fietsbob

Re Wheelset, more the merrier, my 48 was fine , but, pragmatically, if the rear were damaged ,
any replacement wheel offered on the road would be a 36 hole at most,

and you would mail the old hub home..

A Shimano Tandem hub , for the current cassette stuff get you the 40 & 48 spoke ..

the axle is changeable , they send them with a 145.

grolby

I haven't ridden the 700C LHT. Sounds to me that the 26" would be okay, based on your experience and mine. Maybe reasonable to nix 700C if it's really that much more sluggish. I also have a Cross-Check, haven't really loaded it up but the thought doesn't inspire confidence. I think that Surly should never have started putting mid-fork rack mounts on the C-C fork, but that's just my opinion. Really misleads people as to the best use of that bike.

LeeG

A light to medium weight person can make the CrossCheck a decent load carrier with weight on the front fork, low riders or fork mounted front rack. With my 225lbs rear pannier capacity is very limited but it feels fine with a medium weight front load. I set mine up with a VeloOrange front rack carrying panniers or a 12pack of beer. If I put a similar weight on a regular rear rack I can feel the front end get wiggled by the rear, with weight on the front steering is slow but no wiggle.

I originally got the 26" wheel LHT as a replacement for a Kona Ute whose handling I didn't like figuring I could expand it's capacity with a trailer. Once I built it up and rode it it was obviously a more precise handler so the 700c LHT was parted out for a CrossCheck as my do-all bike.

LeeG

Thrift, I think you can get what you want spending $3500 figuring in an extra set of heavy duty touring wheels.

if it was me I'd do the trip in NZ with the cheapest bike to fit the bill purchased there intending on leaving it there then pick the perfect bike for where you live. Your criteria cover too much range for a budget.

bikemig 

The VO Camargue may be close to what you are looking for: https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2013...e-is-here.html

I'm not sure what you mean by sub optimal tubing on the Surly LHT and Salsa Vaya; they're fine steel tubing sets just like all the other bikes you picked out. The other ones have a bit beefier steel tubing sets which may be optimal for your needs but there are, as others have pointed out, trade offs.

Given that you're not leaving until April-May, I'd look for a good quality vintage mtb with a rigid fork and then either do a drop bar conversion or go with trekking bars. You can invest in a good pair of hand built wheels and largely use the existing parts. You'll get a great stout bike that will work well for this trip at a very reasonable price.

Mongoeric

I was in a similar situation as you and bought a Marinoni Tourismo frame and built it up at my LBS. The bikes are made to orders so they can customize almost everything for remarkably little money.

https://www.marinoni.qc.ca/Html/Turismo.html

Marinoni has been building bicycles in Montreal for years focusing on steel racing frames.

I'm satisfied.

BLYTZPK

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/search/sss?catAbb=sss&=sss&query=raleigh++bicycle&zoomToPosting=&minAsk=&maxAsk=&sort=rel

ADD $600

fietsbob

OP only wants Taiwan QBP bikes I Guess , all those on the list are .

Trek 520 ? not a 5 year frame warrantee. but life of original owner.

BLYTZPK

Looking for

bikelovers

I am riding a Salsa Vaya 3 - 57cm. The geometry of Salsa is very different that other bikes I have.
I am 5'10 and I usually ride 55cm, at least a Pro fit technician measured and set up me for 55cm. I thought that 57cm is so big for me, until I test ride it. It has higher head tube and very comfortable to ride vs my other road bikes.
The tire clearance is also very good, I put a 700x42 on and it looks great. I rode it off road on a snow day a week ago and it performed well.

I considered the fargo, but as you have stated, I don't like to ride a MTB for what I am doing now ie mostly on the road.

I would think the Salsa Vaya is a best of both world betweek Fargo and LHT.

bikelovers

Thank you for sharing, the price is very reasonable for a custom bike.

Smilinguy

I have a very lightly used Soma Saga frame (<300 miles) that I like a lot. I just haven't figured out the components yet. I really like this ride - doesn't get much press like the Surly LHT, but I think the overall finish is better, and it rides wonderfully. Cheers!