ro-monster

I think what's limited here is your idea of what constitutes a date. Cruising around the city is only one of thousands of possibilities. Use your imagination! And you are most certainly not limited to things within walking distance. You can explore a city on public transit, and see a whole lot more of it than you can from a car. You can explore on bicycles, or take a taxi if you want.

Practical difficulties aren't the problem. Your limited perspective is the problem.

Caribou

I've been wondering this same thing. My town doesn't have a ton of taxis, but maybe yours does.

Machka 

+1

There are so many more interesting things to do than just cruising around the city in a car.

MikeRides

I first asked my fiancee out on the local MUP about 7 years ago. She had a daily evening routine where she'd be riding every day at around 5pm. Granted we knew each other for years prior to that engagement we never actually hung out. I was riding back to the trail head where my car was parked one day when I spotted her. Naturally I turned around, caught up to her and struck up a conversation for a little ways. That day forward I changed my schedule around to ride around 5pm everyday, eventually I asked her if she was interested in having dinner one night. She said she was free that particular night, so we rode our bikes to an adjoining town for dinner at some quaint Italian restaurant. I later found out she wasn't riding her bike on the MUP for recreation but she was commuting from her 9-5 job nearby. I was heavily dependent on a car back then, I thought it was crazy someone would want to be car free. (Man a lot has changed in 7 years.) She explained how she was living on a military installation and didn't need a car so she got used to riding the bike and continued commuting on it when she moved back to her hometown although she had bought a car once she found out she was pregnant. Long story short, we've been together ever since.

Juha

You were doing OK until that false statement. Dunno about the Realm of Existance, but around where I live plenty of people talk to each other, no matter what their chosen mode of transport is.

--J

Roody

You don't really need a ton of taxis, just one will do. Call your local cab company and ask about their availability, service area, wait times, fares, etc.

Most towns that are too small to have taxis are too small to need them...

Tundra_Man 

I would speculate that the difficulty of the challenge is based on where you live and how common it is for people in that area to live car-free. In larger cities where being car-free is more common, it probably would be easier because one would seem like less of an anomaly to a prospective partner. Conversely, where I live being car-free by choice is relatively unheard of so I can imagine it would be more difficult.

One thing being car-free definitely impacts is the ease of going parking and hopping in the back seat. Most public transit providers would frown on that one.

Rowan

The hidden gem in this thread is here. What more of a lure could a girl need than for a person who doesn't own a car to say: "I don't waste money on cars, I'd rather waste it on girls like you"... well, not really, but it sure helps to say that you have more money to spend on making your experiences together a lot more enjoyable (if not meaningful)... upgrades to the penthouse suite when you really get to know each other, limousine transport to and from the restaurant, bouquets of flowers bigger than she has seen before, surprise trip to Vegas...

And it doesn't matter whether you are wealthy or poor or in between... the savings on the non-car ownership means more to lavish on her.

I dated several time between my last big relationship and Machka, all free of car ownership. It was OK. They had cars so could be at venues under their own steam. Interestingly, I was always there before or on time, and they were invariably late. Goes to show that not relying on a motor vehicle results in better transportational planning skills (I might have used a bus, taxi or walked if not cycled).

Cyclosaurus

There's plenty of women who would share your car-free lifestyle values. Someone who doesn't want to date you because you don't own a car really is on the opposite side of the spectrum from your values.

katsrevenge

I am female. All of this is news to me. When I decided that I had found a guy I ended up with a guy who owned no car, had a giant comic book collection and was post college but still wore high school era jeans. He was also sweet, smart and hard working. The important stuff.


I don't think I ever let a guy pick me up and take me anywhere. Is this still a thing people do past maybe that first year or so of HS car ownership?
When I met my fiancé he had no car. We ended up buying our first car a few years later to move a few hundred miles. Never had problem doing anything or getting anywhere.

Machka 

+1

I'm also female ... and it was all news to me too.

tandempower

I used to think women resist and dislike being analyzed but really it's not gender unique. Many people of both genders dislike it. There's a widespread culture of resisting exposure. It makes it difficult to get feedback from the people you're analyzing when they actively and intentionally try to undermine your analysis. Anyway, maybe your life is just very different from the experiences I've based my analyses on. Or maybe you, like many people, selectively perceive reality. I don't know you well enough to say and if I had to guess based on prejudices I have about people resisting being analytically objectified, I assume you wouldn't want me to.

Just out of curiosity, though, how old were you and your man when you met him with no car? It sounds like you got together young. Was it still fairly 'normal' among people your age to not have cars? One thing I've found is that many people allow their values and perceptions to shift according to social norms of their peers. I watched this happen as many of my peers didn't drive cars and didn't want to when we were young, but as they got older they began getting cars and driving primarily while I was stuck on cycling because it's the right thing to do and I'm more immune to social-norms because my social-analytical background render them fairly transparent and meaningless to me.

I do think I've seen social norms about driving and bike-commuting change in recent decades, but I also see some of the old norms and expectations carried forward by people who seem to have an interest in the old forms of cultural pushiness regarding status superiority, etc. So it's interesting to me to hear from younger generations who seem to be less biased toward cars and driving but still influenced by cultural traditions that favor driving, such as women who want to be picked up in a car for a date because they like to dress and make themselves up in a way that benefits from protection from wind.

tandempower

So I guess being female makes people an expert on being female then? How is it, then, that women seem to understand men so much better than we understand ourselves so much of the time? I think there's an element of objectivity-from-a-distance that both genders can exploit if they put their minds to it.

Machka 

Yes ... as a matter of fact, it does.


Women are just bright that way.

Machka 

I wonder why people would object to being analysed.

katsrevenge

I think it's human to resist being turned into any sort of object. In fact there are whole schools of thought built around that idea.

We met late twenties. Typical grad school/college grad age. For what it is worth, most of the people I knew from that age still don't have cars. A few bought one, and a few got rid of theirs. It seems to be mostly based on where they live and quality of public transport.

Well, I wouldn't consider myself an expert on being a man. I'm not a man. Kind of comes with the territory....funny how that works.

That said, most males are not socialized to notice various cues. Or perhaps most males just don't bother reading those social cues that help one sus out what another is feeling or thinking. Or perhaps it is that we don't teach boys to listen to girls in the same way we teach girls to listen. Perhaps giving boys dolls and having them play house from an early age would help.

That said, I don't think men and women are that different. Everyone wants someone who's comfortable to be around, who treats them right and doesn't complain too much if you fart in bed.

Dude. We need a man to tell how us women feel and think and what we want... right..?

I-Like-To-Bike

Especially improvised and impromptu analysis from a self appointed/anointed expert who finds society norms meaningless.

Dave Cutter

I spent a large part of my adult life single and never found "dating" to be a problem. Of course I define dating as: romantic and/or sexual encounters. Since (for many years) I remained single by choice I wasn't particularly interested in a long term monogamous relationship.

The no car lifestyle should NOT be a hindrance... in any way. Always assume it isn't! Then proceed. Many men shy away from some women because they don't feel they drive the "right car". It is just silly.

Most women care much more about their own feelings than your current lifestyle. Meeting a women is a great first date. Find a place where YOU feel comfortable and can project confidence. Relax, be humors, and entertaining. If the woman is attracted to you and wants to bed you... she will. Let her workout the logistics.

Women generally believe they can alter a mates behavior. If a woman is interested in you but doesn't like the "no car lifestyle" she MIGHT assume she can change that part of you. And there is the risk. If a potential mate isn't as into "car free" just as much as you are.... you could find yourself emotionally involved with someone who lives a lifestyle you're in conflict with.

Cyclosaurus

Dude, when you're already in a hole...stop digging.

Rowan

He doesn't think he has hit the chauvinist motherlode... yet he's well past it because he didn't recognise it!

I mean, objectified and exploit and other interesting words in the same theme, all wrapped up in a neat package.

Walter S

Say that on BF and yes, you'll get comments from bike loving females that dismiss your concern and say there are "plenty" of girls out there that will date a guy without a car. I'm sure it varies some by the area where you live. But I think you are largely right in the sense that your choices are significantly or maybe even vastly reduced.

I think that many women would be reluctant to give a fully honest answer on the topic but would still be highly prejudiced against a man without a car. Even so many will be quite frank about and will, at places other than BF like this one for example. I'm not saying it's a factor that can't be overcome - but it needs to be overcome. It puts you at a disadvantage.

wahoonc

You are forgetting the obvious... men are born brain damaged...



Aaron

tandempower

It's funny. I really dislike rhetorical sarcasm like this because it's essentially saying something that it isn't. It requires the reader to put words in the mouth of the writer based on assumptions about what they might mean but didn't directly say. I find it far better to take people at their word but sarcasm and rhetorical language preclude this. Please explain to me how someone could dislike being analyzed and then use indirect language that requires analysis to get the meaning.

And yet how many women like decorating themselves the same way they would decorate other material objects? Maybe it comes with having been socialized with dolls, objects meant to represent human bodies (albeit without a human soul)? I agree that people should think about or treat others as objects, but males tend to be the ones socialized more to transcend material consciousness, whereas women tend to be trained to focus much more on physical/material expressions.

That is nice to hear. I see so much bias against public transit. I hope you and your friends are representative of a broader trend.

No one can really understand any category because people aren't categories, they're individuals. It's just that we notice cultural patterns that are more gender-specific than universal and we interpret the meanings and experiences of these patterns through our own capacity for making sense of them, empathizing with them, and so forth. 'Expert' is a loaded word. If you think about something a lot and come to some conclusions, you have something to say about the matter. If others contradict what you say, it could be because they're right and telling the truth, or it could be because they're engaged in intentional or unintentional deception (and even self-deception). How can anyone know for sure what's really going on, even with themselves? It requires a commitment to honest, which many people resist because it is a form of self-objectification.

I notice many men have this attitude of blowing these off as 'small stuff.' Many women would regard such men incredulously for dismissing something as small or irrelevant that they consider important. These are all generalizations, though. There is also a big gap between the way that men and women respect others, generally, I think. Whereas women like the idea of respecting someone else for no other reason than nurturing the other person's ego, men tend to be more dismissive of something someone thinks or feels unless there is more objective reason to do so. Ironically, I often seem to find ways of expressing thoughts that women will actively disrespect without regard to nurturing my ego. I think there's something about strength vs. weakness where if you express a strong mind, women will disrespect you to sort of cut you down. This causes me to wonder why women will validate all sorts of other emotions and expressions but not a strong mind. What's the prejudice against mind about?

Good point. People are fundamentally the same, even in their propensity to overblow differences and ignore commonalities. I can't believe you mentioned farting in bed but thanks because it reminds me of one more perk of having transcended the need for a relationship

Look, I studied feminism for a long time and there are these feminist memes that people reproduce dogmatically and I tire of hearing them. One is getting offended at the idea that "women need a man to do things for them." I agree that people shouldn't need other people to do things for them. I never said anything about women needing men to tell them anything. All I did was give my analysis of what I believe I have observed and extrapolated from observation and experience. Are you going to tell me I can't do this except for people of my own gender, or maybe not even for anyone except myself. Please, when you're ready to stop observing and reflecting on what other people do, then maybe you can come teach me about how you mind your own business exclusively and not others. Until then, please acknowledge that we all pay attention to and try to understand the way other people work in some way or another.


Almost everything you imply in all your posts offends me in some way. That is amazing consistency.

When you are speaking your truth, and others consider it "digging yourself into a hole," it could be a sign you're on the right track. Submitting to what others think is the low road. Thinking for yourself independently is the high road. You're free to choose your path but the low road only leads farther down.

You assume you know what chauvinism is but how well do you, really?

Machka 

Are you saying women are stupid ... i.e. don't have a strong mind?

tandempower

Stop thinking of it as a 'disadvantage.' It is the same with any lifestyle choice that puts you above the herd. Imagine you were living in a time or place where smoking cigarettes was nearly ubiquitous. If you were in a non-smoker's club or forum, you could complain that it was so hard to find a woman who would date a non-smoker. People are just ego-sensitive. If they're doing something that's less good than they could otherwise be, being around someone who doesn't do that thing causes them to be self-conscious and question their own goodness. As long as everyone involved does the bad thing, they can dismiss worrying about it by telling themselves it's normal or that they don't really have a choice. The moment someone chooses the high road, whether it's not to smoke or not to drive a car, many people will avoid them or make up reasons why they're wrong simply to justify their own choice and go on with the self-denial.

You have made a choice that puts you above norms. As a result, normatively biased people are going to biased against you and only truly good people who look beyond norms at true good and bad are going to see your true goodness that makes you worth relating to. This is a good thing in the long run because it spares you the misery of having to waste time with people who fail to look beyond norms at true goodness. The only reason you're bothered by this is because it's boring sitting around waiting and filtering through people until you come across the good ones. It is disturbing but most people are shallow and normative to cover up the fact that they simply don't care about goodness in any way. It's hard to see this because people put a lot of effort into creating a convincing facade that impels others to like and accept them despite their inherent indifference toward goodness.