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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 04-21-05, 04:18 PM   #1
raygunner
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SHILL BIDDIN' on eBay I Think We Have A LOOSER!

I've brought up the eBay seller "Cino59" since he auctions stink something nasty.

I previously posted about his Schwinn Madison track frame that he's sold a number of times.

The current high bid of his bike:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...150645289&rd=1

is held by this bidder: jthargrove

Yet in the previous auction of his bike :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7145978207

The runner up was none other than "jthargrove".

The user jthargrove as only bid on these two bikes & one other item in current eBay listings.

Strange, eh?
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Old 04-21-05, 04:24 PM   #2
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A sucker is born every minute.
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Old 04-21-05, 04:39 PM   #3
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here is what hapens to those who partake in shill biddin g i found out from ebay. Square trade will email all those bidding on the item that they may have been outbid by the seller or what not in an attempt to increase the price. so if reported they are stopped ... sort of
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Old 04-21-05, 09:16 PM   #4
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very perceptive, raygunner. much respect. however, isn't it possible that this jthargrove character is just some dumb newbee who doesn't really know how to bid effectively? i'm not trying to be a d*ck, just wanted to play devil's advocate a little before we go and crap all over these guys reputations. know what i mean? i dunno, maybe i'm missing something.
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Old 04-21-05, 09:35 PM   #5
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The Guy Lost And Bid On Another,,what Is The Mystery?
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Old 04-21-05, 09:40 PM   #6
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the mystery is: who let you near a computer?
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Old 04-21-05, 10:46 PM   #7
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i'm not really sure what the problem is. free country. there's nothing illegal about shill bidding. unethical? maybe? but there's certainly nothing wrong with it in my mind.
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Old 04-21-05, 10:54 PM   #8
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Sure it's legal, but it's also against Ebay's TOS. So shill bid away - just don't do it at ebay.
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Old 04-21-05, 11:16 PM   #9
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that's lame.
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Old 04-21-05, 11:46 PM   #10
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a "looser" huh?

Are you series, sounds like a moran.
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Old 04-21-05, 11:57 PM   #11
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teh internets are sirrius bisniss.
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Old 04-21-05, 11:58 PM   #12
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i'm not really sure what the problem is. free country. there's nothing illegal about shill bidding. unethical? maybe? but there's certainly nothing wrong with it in my mind.
you don't care about ethics?
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Old 04-22-05, 04:49 AM   #13
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"care" or "prioritize?"
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Old 04-22-05, 08:41 AM   #14
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http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...l-bidding.html


Also - what's the deal with people charging a large fee for "handling" or "boxing" in addition to (often inflated) shipping charges? My roommate buys lots of crap off eBay, often large and awkward to pack, and no one else charges money to put it into a box. It seems like the ability to put something into a box should coincide with selling online, and not be something that requires a specialized professional staff. Last I checked, LBS's will give you a box if you ask nicely before their next shipment (and I've had many honest sellers tell me as much).

It seems like just my luck that every bike I would be willing to bid on is attached to some ridiculous shipping charge - I emailed a seller last week about a nice old frame (FRAME only) and was told shipping would be $125, not a penny less (insurance would be extra). US seller.
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Old 04-22-05, 08:53 AM   #15
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I emailed this dude recently because I was thinking that I would buy one of his fixie conversions as a beater. I have my own online store, but the bikes are super cheap, so I was going to use it for winter riding...so I emailed him my concerns, like having the same person winning several of the auctions, the $35 boxing fee and the using of the same picture for multiple auctions.

All I received back was hostility in his email back, asking what the point of my questions were. He said that since I sell things on ebay versus buy stuff on ebay then I must be emailing him just to waste his time.

As far as boxing up bikes...It does take some special care, besides just a box, but nothing worth charging $35 for.

But in this seller's defence, nobody is forcing us to buy from him, and he does state the $35 right in the description, so its not like he is being dishonest as far as that goes.

My opinion is that if you do not think that he is being ethical, then be like me, and just don't buy from him...

Thanks for bringing this guy up Raygunner!
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Old 04-22-05, 11:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
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you don't care about ethics?
not when they don't matter, such as in an online auction, where you (the consumer) have a choice to bid or not. don't like it, don't bid.
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Old 04-22-05, 11:33 AM   #17
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not when they don't matter, such as in an online auction, where you (the consumer) have a choice to bid or not. don't like it, don't bid.
Sure, but educated choice assumes a system in which people are following the rules. If you're on ebay, you must be able to assume that ebay's TOS are being followed, or else the system is rigged against you...

I've got no problem with sellers who disclose their packing charges; I'd have no issue with this guy, if the text of his auction disclosed that he's using shill bidders.
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Old 04-22-05, 12:09 PM   #18
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i agree that if you don't like what you see, don't buy it. but shill bidding stinks of deception, which is to say that it's done behind the scenes. it would be a different story if somebody was shill bidding AND disclosing it: " ...in addition, bidders, every so often during the following 7 days i will have one of my buddies place a bid for the sole purpose of inflating the price, which will hopefully cause you to place a new, higher bid, perhaps higher than you normally would have gone. this way i get more money." in that scenario, shill all you want. at least the consumer is making an INFORMED decision. i guess my problem with shill bidding is that if/when it is done, it is not disclosed, and that is dishonest. in fact the "feedback forum" was developed to combat the issue of dishonest ebayers in general, specifically to run them out of town.
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Old 04-22-05, 12:12 PM   #19
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...not to say that the specific ebayers referenced in this thread are in fact shill bidding. i am not convinced of that.
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Old 04-22-05, 12:58 PM   #20
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Well the fact that he's "sold" the bike three times is fishy enough for me.
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Old 04-22-05, 01:01 PM   #21
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yeah totally. In his hostile-ish email to me he told me that he has multiple IDENTICAL bikes, which is why he uses the same picture... I kinda think thats a load of CACA.
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Old 04-22-05, 01:12 PM   #22
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If you bring a bike into a shop they are going to charge you to pack it. We charge $35 If I were doing it at home I would charge ten or fifteen to breakdown, wrap the tubes and pack the bike in such a way that it will be unmarked when recieved. It takes twenty thirty minutes. Even the big onliners charge handling, they often charge more than I do. I am also up front about the shipping handling and want to know about any questions. I figure if you have a hundred dollar budget and the shipping is $25 you can figure out that you have $75 to bid with.
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Old 04-22-05, 01:13 PM   #23
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did jthargrove win the bike more than once? i just checked and his is infact the winning bidder. if so that is incredibly suspicious. i didn't realize he had sold this bike several times, either. it is possible that he had multiple consecutive dead beat bidders, but not likely. improbable, actually. i am now much closer to being convinced. very close. good stuff.
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Old 04-22-05, 01:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...l-bidding.html


Also - what's the deal with people charging a large fee for "handling" or "boxing" in addition to (often inflated) shipping charges? My roommate buys lots of crap off eBay, often large and awkward to pack, and no one else charges money to put it into a box. It seems like the ability to put something into a box should coincide with selling online, and not be something that requires a specialized professional staff. Last I checked, LBS's will give you a box if you ask nicely before their next shipment (and I've had many honest sellers tell me as much).

It seems like just my luck that every bike I would be willing to bid on is attached to some ridiculous shipping charge - I emailed a seller last week about a nice old frame (FRAME only) and was told shipping would be $125, not a penny less (insurance would be extra). US seller.
I've sold like 80-90 items on eBay in the last year. Generally I charge a dollar for a handling fee. This is to compensate me for the time it takes to package stuff, and the cost for tape and paper and stuff, time to drop it off, gas if I have to drive it there. If I have to go to the post office, sometimes I charge 5 dollars for handling, becuase it takes my time, and my time is worth money to me. Sellers have the right to charge handling fees. If they disclose them and stick to them you have no right to complain. If you don't like it, don't bid. As for charging $125 to box and ship a bike, that is obviously a case where you just shouldn't bid.

As a buyer, one piece of advice. If somebody doesn't say what method of shipping they use, and you want it sooner rather than later, you better check with them, don't assume it is coming priority mail, even if you're paying more than $5 for a light item.
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Old 04-22-05, 01:20 PM   #25
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wow i do not feel sorry for any idiot that would bid on anything this tool sells...am i the only one put off by these instructions-

"ONLY MONEY ORDERS are accepted for payment. A $35 fee will be charged to package the unit. In-person pick-ups are not considered. Shipping costs will be based on UPS Ground rates and are to be paid by the winner in addition to the packing fee. Be advised I do not accept returns of any bike I sell on eBay, nor do I issue refunds.."

only money orders and no in person pick ups nor refunds or returns...

i mean i have a bunch of crap i could list on ebay with those conditions....

to me he's giving you more than just fair warning you're not going to be satisfied....
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