"The Angry Singlespeeder" Rant about whiner of bike costs...
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I like buying nice things. I wasn't raised with much- actually, when I was a child I got my clothes out of a donation box from the shelter that I lived in. now that I've got money to spend, I've probably tried to make up for the things I never had. I've worked every day of my life for what I have today.
I know guys who go to MTB races, hung over, in dirty jeans, on sub $1000 bikes and blow the doors off guys on $2000 bikes. I feel like if you can't make a less than $1000 bike work for you, then you are really just "blaming the tools"....
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Or you could be like me, race hungover on a $2k bike, and get dropped+pulled out of a race from other people on $2k bikes
this happened 3 weekends ago.
this happened 3 weekends ago.
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"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
#57
Anywhere I roam
I have 3 bikes. Add the price of all 3 together and it'll be roughly $3k. Two are mountain bikes from 1996... fully rigid by the way. One is steel, the other is aluminum. They kick serious ****ing ass!!!
Today I did a tune up on a $8k 2015 Cannondale Scalpel. I was embarrassed to be seen test riding it.
Today I did a tune up on a $8k 2015 Cannondale Scalpel. I was embarrassed to be seen test riding it.
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My take? I like sweet rides. But the relationship between money spent and that ride is pretty loose. The five best rides I have owned are: my racing bike, a Fuji Pro that cost me $450 as a bike shop employee in 1977, my '79 Peter Mooney, the Reynolds 501 Peugeot sport frame I picked up for $20 badly damaged and set up as a fix gear for almost nothing, the ti custom road bike I paid over 2k for the frame and put on mostly used parts and the ti fix gear for roughly the same price (to replace the Peugeot fix gear with a bike I trust in the hills).
Somewhere close to these bikes are my winter fix gear, a '83 Trek 420 that represents about $700 invested and far more in routine wear and replacement and my (new to me) Raleigh Carlton Competition ($80 for the frame, and another say $400 on this and that.
Prior to the ti customs I had never spent $1000 to put a bike together, though quite a few have passed that mark in maintenance and replacements. And the ti bikes aren't about having xxx$$s of bike, they are about having a custom frame that fits and disappears under me and has the wonderful ride of titanium which I experienced 20 years before my first ti bike. Employment and money have been a challenge for me. (Some poor choices and a very serious head injury.) I learned to manage my money and trim down my life to simple, almost everything paid up front (I did take out a small mortgage for my house and bought the new car, a Prius, that should last the rest of my driving years with a loan for less than half the cost at zero interest.) While I was working a good job, I bought my two ti customs, bikes I have wanted forever.
Planned future expenses on bikes? I would like to repaint a couple, maybe have the Raleigh replaced with a new custom if it does not pass inspection. (It is being stripped for repaint. My framebuilder will inspect it before and after stripping, do a couple of minor repairs/mods if the frame is a keeper and build a new one if it isn't. It's a gravel bike and we have descents with serious washboard at the bottom here. I want a frame I can trust. I've lost too much of my life to frame failure. My fork failure 35 years ago cost me FAR MORE than a custom steel frame! In fact, an ambulance ride and three days in the hospital would cost me more even after insurance.
Yea, I have spent some real money on bikes. But those bikes have also been tools for me. Tools that have been a link to sanity, that have taken me places both physically and spiritually I would not have seen otherwise and tools that have gotten me to work, to friends, to stores, etc. (And my bikes only get flipped with me aboard; I try my best to NOT do that! They get ridden into the ground and retired.)
Oh - and that sweet ride and wheels? Man, you can make a sweet ride from quality aluminum rims, hubs that haven't changed much in concept over the past century and some formed and threaded wire. Using techniques more than twice as old as I am. And yeah, a set of wheels, new, will cost me roughly $300. But those rims will go ~5-15,000 miles, the spokes 15,000 miles and the hubs 'til I can no longer get bearing replacements. (I am happily riding a front Campy Tipo from the early '80s and I have a Sanshin hub from my Fuji that is still rolling.)
Ben
Somewhere close to these bikes are my winter fix gear, a '83 Trek 420 that represents about $700 invested and far more in routine wear and replacement and my (new to me) Raleigh Carlton Competition ($80 for the frame, and another say $400 on this and that.
Prior to the ti customs I had never spent $1000 to put a bike together, though quite a few have passed that mark in maintenance and replacements. And the ti bikes aren't about having xxx$$s of bike, they are about having a custom frame that fits and disappears under me and has the wonderful ride of titanium which I experienced 20 years before my first ti bike. Employment and money have been a challenge for me. (Some poor choices and a very serious head injury.) I learned to manage my money and trim down my life to simple, almost everything paid up front (I did take out a small mortgage for my house and bought the new car, a Prius, that should last the rest of my driving years with a loan for less than half the cost at zero interest.) While I was working a good job, I bought my two ti customs, bikes I have wanted forever.
Planned future expenses on bikes? I would like to repaint a couple, maybe have the Raleigh replaced with a new custom if it does not pass inspection. (It is being stripped for repaint. My framebuilder will inspect it before and after stripping, do a couple of minor repairs/mods if the frame is a keeper and build a new one if it isn't. It's a gravel bike and we have descents with serious washboard at the bottom here. I want a frame I can trust. I've lost too much of my life to frame failure. My fork failure 35 years ago cost me FAR MORE than a custom steel frame! In fact, an ambulance ride and three days in the hospital would cost me more even after insurance.
Yea, I have spent some real money on bikes. But those bikes have also been tools for me. Tools that have been a link to sanity, that have taken me places both physically and spiritually I would not have seen otherwise and tools that have gotten me to work, to friends, to stores, etc. (And my bikes only get flipped with me aboard; I try my best to NOT do that! They get ridden into the ground and retired.)
Oh - and that sweet ride and wheels? Man, you can make a sweet ride from quality aluminum rims, hubs that haven't changed much in concept over the past century and some formed and threaded wire. Using techniques more than twice as old as I am. And yeah, a set of wheels, new, will cost me roughly $300. But those rims will go ~5-15,000 miles, the spokes 15,000 miles and the hubs 'til I can no longer get bearing replacements. (I am happily riding a front Campy Tipo from the early '80s and I have a Sanshin hub from my Fuji that is still rolling.)
Ben
#59
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Better is based on what you want. Like I said earlier, my two favorite bikes are extremely different in price. Yet, I still cannot get over some folks wanting to pooh on expensive bikes for what appears to be just the fact that they are expensive. If getting from A to B most efficiently is a main point of bikes, and it is for some, why aren't the pros riding these amazing $400 bikes? And, if the bike really makes no difference, why are the companies working so hard on even the smallest of details for their pros? All of which we eventually get access to.At my age, I do not want to struggle with an extra 5-10 pounds on my MTB. And, the new wheels on my SS, which cost as much as purchasing the bike, made it mor fun to ride. Yet, a whole lot of folks still cannot seem to love their own bikes, and this seems to bring out hatred toward others' bikes, especially if the hater cannot afford said bike at this time in their life. Boy, that tune changes when finances change, for many.
#60
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Better is based on what you want. Like I said earlier, my two favorite bikes are extremely different in price. Yet, I still cannot get over some folks wanting to pooh on expensive bikes for what appears to be just the fact that they are expensive. If getting from A to B most efficiently is a main point of bikes, and it is for some, why aren't the pros riding these amazing $400 bikes? And, if the bike really makes no difference, why are the companies working so hard on even the smallest of details for their pros? All of which we eventually get access to.At my age, I do not want to struggle with an extra 5-10 pounds on my MTB. And, the new wheels on my SS, which cost as much as purchasing the bike, made it mor fun to ride. Yet, a whole lot of folks still cannot seem to love their own bikes, and this seems to bring out hatred toward others' bikes, especially if the hater cannot afford said bike at this time in their life. Boy, that tune changes when finances change, for many.
I can't stand Eddie Van Halen. I just wanna put this out there, before I say this: Eddie Van Halen sounds like EVH when he plays guitar. He has a distinct sound/style that stands out, meaning no matter what, no matter what guitar he picks up, whether it be a USA made strat or a chinese made LP jr, he still sounds like EVH, in fact, the guitar he's known for is cobbled together from bits of other "cheap" guitars.
Now, don't get me wrong, there is a huge difference in a "Pure Fix" bike, and a decent 80's japanese or Italian conversion. It(the conversion) just feels better. But ya gotta know what yer feeling to even know the difference, and I assume some of you guys on super expensive bikes feel that difference between an old school bike, and one of those new ridiculously expensive, transformer looking rides. And that's fine. Whatever blows yer hair back. Personally, most newer, high tech looking bikes, to me, have no soul to them. But I'm not a competitor. 5lbs means nothing to me, so i can understand, where yer coming from, although I don't have the experience to have any empathy. I don't "hate" on a bike because I can't afford it. I'll hate on it, if I think it's ugly, or pretentious. Anyone can buy an expensive bike. Money is easy to get, if you are smart. But what's the point if it has no soul? I've had 5 people ask me why I didn't get the Basso repainted to original colors. Why? I feel the same way about my bikes as I do my motorcycles. I don't wanna pull up to a stoplight, next to someone else on the same exact bike as mine. That's no fun. This is something that millions of Harley riders still haven't figured out.
There is "pooh" being flung from both sides of the fence. The "haves" and the "have nots". I've been to plenty of rides where the spandex nutsacks act like everyone else is **** because they aren't riding expensive Litespeeds. But I've also ridden with guys who are loaded, and they are the coolest people, and don't care what yer riding.
But, like I said, you can't buy soul.
#61
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T13, great response!
Definitely ****** on both sides of the fence. I have even had folks take jabs at my MTB who happened to have the bike one step up. They regret opening that door. I am not big into road bikes, but for MTBs I believe some of the coolest looking ones are some of the most expensive. Soul is tough, like looks, it can depend on the person rating it. But, no matter the price, I would not keep a bike that I did not bond with, and usually that has something to do with the "soul" of the bike.
lots of folks "hate" on my little Scion IQ, but loved my new BMW. Yet. I still have the IQ and the BMW is gone.
Definitely ****** on both sides of the fence. I have even had folks take jabs at my MTB who happened to have the bike one step up. They regret opening that door. I am not big into road bikes, but for MTBs I believe some of the coolest looking ones are some of the most expensive. Soul is tough, like looks, it can depend on the person rating it. But, no matter the price, I would not keep a bike that I did not bond with, and usually that has something to do with the "soul" of the bike.
lots of folks "hate" on my little Scion IQ, but loved my new BMW. Yet. I still have the IQ and the BMW is gone.
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i kinda meant this..
soul
sōl/
noun
noun: soul; plural noun: souls
- 1.
the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.
- a person's moral or emotional nature or sense of identity.
"in the depths of her soul, she knew he would betray her"
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]spirit, psyche, (inner) self, inner being, life force, vital force; Moreindividuality, makeup, subconscious, anima;
pneuma;
atman
"seeing the soul through the eyes"
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
- emotional or intellectual energy or intensity, especially as revealed in a work of art or an artistic performance.
"their interpretation lacked soul"
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]inspiration, feeling, emotion, passion, animation, intensity, fervor, ardor, enthusiasm, warmth, energy, vitality, spirit "their music lacked soul"
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
- a person's moral or emotional nature or sense of identity.
- 2.
the essence or embodiment of a specified quality.
"he was the soul of discretion"
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]embodiment, personification, incarnation, epitome, quintessence, essence; Moremodel, exemplification, exemplar, image, manifestation
"he is the soul of discretion"
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
- an individual person.
"I'll never tell a soul"
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]person, human being, individual, man, woman, mortal, creature "not a soul in sight"
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
- a person regarded with affection or pity.
"she's a nice old soul
- an individual person.
#65
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It was humor.... Well, a failed attempt at humor. At least today I was paying attention
#67
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Being serious for a moment, which is rare for me, I cannot imagine keeping a bike that has no soul (to me). When I take my MTB to a place like Duthie Park (worth a few minutes of your YouTube time), I know that it is going to help me ride at a pace that inspires me to put out 100% effort. I know that when I hit the black diamond route with it, we are partners in the adventure, and I believe I can clean the route, or at least get close. My SS is extremely fun, and I literally search out rides that I believe are just right for me and my Langster. So, whether expensive or not so expensive, love what you ride! And, save the trash talking for your best friend, instead of some stranger who is riding something you have an issue with, for whatever reason.
#68
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Get over yourself.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
#70
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
#71
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
And that works both ways. When someone looks at my old gas pipe bikes and shakes their head, I get it. And I'm not offended. The bikes are primitive slugs in their eyes. And they are primitive slugs. I don't like complex modern race bikes, but I can totally understand someone lusting after every exotic doo-dad. They are passionate about the gadgetry, that's what draws them in, and that's cool. I LOVE looking at them and admiring all the engineering details. They are awesome. I'd never own one, even if it was free, but they are cool.
Everyone has different tastes in everything. The best thing everyone can do is to understand that fact, be more accepting of that fact, and less judgmental.
Everyone has different tastes in everything. The best thing everyone can do is to understand that fact, be more accepting of that fact, and less judgmental.
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****ing right on man
I can't stand Eddie Van Halen. I just wanna put this out there, before I say this: Eddie Van Halen sounds like EVH when he plays guitar. He has a distinct sound/style that stands out, meaning no matter what, no matter what guitar he picks up, whether it be a USA made strat or a chinese made LP jr, he still sounds like EVH, in fact, the guitar he's known for is cobbled together from bits of other "cheap" guitars.
Now, don't get me wrong, there is a huge difference in a "Pure Fix" bike, and a decent 80's japanese or Italian conversion. It(the conversion) just feels better. But ya gotta know what yer feeling to even know the difference, and I assume some of you guys on super expensive bikes feel that difference between an old school bike, and one of those new ridiculously expensive, transformer looking rides. And that's fine. Whatever blows yer hair back. Personally, most newer, high tech looking bikes, to me, have no soul to them. But I'm not a competitor. 5lbs means nothing to me, so i can understand, where yer coming from, although I don't have the experience to have any empathy. I don't "hate" on a bike because I can't afford it. I'll hate on it, if I think it's ugly, or pretentious. Anyone can buy an expensive bike. Money is easy to get, if you are smart. But what's the point if it has no soul? I've had 5 people ask me why I didn't get the Basso repainted to original colors. Why? I feel the same way about my bikes as I do my motorcycles. I don't wanna pull up to a stoplight, next to someone else on the same exact bike as mine. That's no fun. This is something that millions of Harley riders still haven't figured out.
There is "pooh" being flung from both sides of the fence. The "haves" and the "have nots". I've been to plenty of rides where the spandex nutsacks act like everyone else is **** because they aren't riding expensive Litespeeds. But I've also ridden with guys who are loaded, and they are the coolest people, and don't care what yer riding.
But, like I said, you can't buy soul.
Now, don't get me wrong, there is a huge difference in a "Pure Fix" bike, and a decent 80's japanese or Italian conversion. It(the conversion) just feels better. But ya gotta know what yer feeling to even know the difference, and I assume some of you guys on super expensive bikes feel that difference between an old school bike, and one of those new ridiculously expensive, transformer looking rides. And that's fine. Whatever blows yer hair back. Personally, most newer, high tech looking bikes, to me, have no soul to them. But I'm not a competitor. 5lbs means nothing to me, so i can understand, where yer coming from, although I don't have the experience to have any empathy. I don't "hate" on a bike because I can't afford it. I'll hate on it, if I think it's ugly, or pretentious. Anyone can buy an expensive bike. Money is easy to get, if you are smart. But what's the point if it has no soul? I've had 5 people ask me why I didn't get the Basso repainted to original colors. Why? I feel the same way about my bikes as I do my motorcycles. I don't wanna pull up to a stoplight, next to someone else on the same exact bike as mine. That's no fun. This is something that millions of Harley riders still haven't figured out.
There is "pooh" being flung from both sides of the fence. The "haves" and the "have nots". I've been to plenty of rides where the spandex nutsacks act like everyone else is **** because they aren't riding expensive Litespeeds. But I've also ridden with guys who are loaded, and they are the coolest people, and don't care what yer riding.
But, like I said, you can't buy soul.
#73
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And that works both ways. When someone looks at my old gas pipe bikes and shakes their head, I get it. And I'm not offended. The bikes are primitive slugs in their eyes. And they are primitive slugs. I don't like complex modern race bikes, but I can totally understand someone lusting after every exotic doo-dad. They are passionate about the gadgetry, that's what draws them in, and that's cool. I LOVE looking at them and admiring all the engineering details. They are awesome. I'd never own one, even if it was free, but they are cool.
Everyone has different tastes in everything. The best thing everyone can do is to understand that fact, be more accepting of that fact, and less judgmental.
Everyone has different tastes in everything. The best thing everyone can do is to understand that fact, be more accepting of that fact, and less judgmental.
Yeah, I can totally understand, and agree with all of that. I like doodads and stuff like that, and i love new technology. For some stuff though, like bikes, motorcycles, and stereo/music equipment, I prefer the old stuff. I tend to forget(not as much as I used to) that not everyone on here is an almost 50 used to be bike messenger, and that alot of guys on here race etc etc. This forum is my first "branching out" to non messenger specific riders, honestly. I went right from BMX as a teen, then to college after the Marine Corps, and into the Messenger cult, so that's all the friends/experience I had as far as "bike stuff" goes.
I DO think, however, that Aluminum/carbon transformer looking track bikes for urban riding look completely ridiculous.
#74
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And that works both ways. When someone looks at my old gas pipe bikes and shakes their head, I get it. And I'm not offended. The bikes are primitive slugs in their eyes. And they are primitive slugs. I don't like complex modern race bikes, but I can totally understand someone lusting after every exotic doo-dad. They are passionate about the gadgetry, that's what draws them in, and that's cool. I LOVE looking at them and admiring all the engineering details. They are awesome. I'd never own one, even if it was free, but they are cool.
Everyone has different tastes in everything. The best thing everyone can do is to understand that fact, be more accepting of that fact, and less judgmental.
Everyone has different tastes in everything. The best thing everyone can do is to understand that fact, be more accepting of that fact, and less judgmental.
Also, as T13 mentioned, some of us are competitive, and want something that gives back more of what you put in. It has less to do with owning fancy gadgets and more to do with performance.
I race a rigid, uncomfortable alu bike (caad9) and train/ride daily on a steel road bike. In nearly every situation, they're basically the same, but there is a real and marked difference as your power output increases, esp when sprinting or climbing.
I totally agree on this one. Besides looking stupid, riding a fancy alu/carbon transformer bike around town isn't practical, as they are uncomfortable and fragile compared to something purpose designed.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
Last edited by TMonk; 07-09-15 at 12:18 PM.
#75
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
I wasn't judging, the exact opposite if you re read my post.
They are awesome for what you do.
They aren't my thing. I'd never ride it because I ride bikes in a different way. I like upright bikes that I can thrash about on. Wheelies and curbs and general farting around. I appreciate what the high tech bikes are, the best of the best for their intended use. But my passions are at the other end of the spectrum.
You are serious about training and racing. For me, my biking is like playing.
Last edited by SquidPuppet; 07-09-15 at 12:34 PM.