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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 07-29-05, 12:24 PM   #1
steaktaco
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EAI bare knuckle frame geometry

anyone know the head tube angle for this frame? I don't have the frame yet but I'm trying to spec the stem. oh and would mks chain tugs fit on the fork?
thanks,
-c
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Old 07-29-05, 12:33 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steaktaco
anyone know the head tube angle for this frame? I don't have the frame yet but I'm trying to spec the stem. oh and would mks chain tugs fit on the fork?
thanks,
-c
If you are trying to spec stem length you need to know the seat tube angle also.

For example a bike with a 58cm top tube will use a different length stem depending on where the seat tube starts. The steeper angle frame means the top tube starts more forward. If you have a steeper seat tube this will mean you'll use more set-back on the seatpost. set-back adds "effective" top tube length

just 1 degree difference in seat tube angle affects my stem length 1.5cm (15mm) when comparing frames of the same top tube length.
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Old 07-29-05, 12:37 PM   #3
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Frame geometry available on BusinessCycles:

https://www.businesscycles.com/nessuno.htm
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Old 07-29-05, 12:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absntr
Frame geometry available on BusinessCycles:

https://www.businesscycles.com/nessuno.htm
Too bad it doesn't tell any angles. Top tube length without the seat tube angle is meaningless.

58cm top tube with a 72 degree angle is massively different than a 58cm top tube with a 75 degree angle.

With the 72 degree angle you'll probably use a straight clamp seatpost.

With a 75 degree angle you might use a huge amount of seat back to achieve the position you want . That set-back you use will increase the distance to the headtube and neccessitate a shorter stem.

Last edited by 53-11_alltheway; 07-29-05 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 07-29-05, 02:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53-11_alltheway
If you are trying to spec stem length you need to know the seat tube angle also.

For example a bike with a 58cm top tube will use a different length stem depending on where the seat tube starts. The steeper angle frame means the top tube starts more forward. If you have a steeper seat tube this will mean you'll use more set-back on the seatpost. set-back adds "effective" top tube length

just 1 degree difference in seat tube angle affects my stem length 1.5cm (15mm) when comparing frames of the same top tube length.
I getcha. but before length, I wanted to find a stem that's parallel to the top tube when I find that, then I'm sure it comes in a variety of lengths. right now, I'm just pricing out my build, so finding the right stem model is my main concern.
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Old 07-29-05, 02:32 PM   #6
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My guess based on the 35.5mm rake of the fork that the HT angle is 73-74 degrees (depending on frame size). but, its just a guess. Also, note that the same fork is used for all sizes, which means it will handle differently for different sized riders. Not a big deal if you know what you want and what you are getting.


Quote:
I don't have the frame yet but I'm trying to spec the stem.
Quote:
With the 72 degree angle you'll probably use a straight clamp seatpost. With a 75 degree angle you might use a huge amount of seat back to achieve the position you want . That set-back you use will increase the distance to the headtube and neccessitate a shorter stem.
Stem length is usually decided on in conjuction with TT length and this total is determined by reach. Angles don't come into play here. We all have a desired cockpit position. And this cockpit position is adapted to the frame based on what your intended goal is. If it is a track frame, I can only assume you want a forward position. If it is a road frame, I can only assume a more laid back position. But, in essence the cockpit position stays the same (of course, with the necessary tweaking).

Just because you have a 75 degree ST angle does not mean you will automatically choose a set-back seatpost. Nor does having a 72 degree ST angle necessitate a non set-back seatpost.
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Old 07-29-05, 02:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steaktaco
I getcha. but before length, I wanted to find a stem that's parallel to the top tube when I find that, then I'm sure it comes in a variety of lengths. right now, I'm just pricing out my build, so finding the right stem model is my main concern.
The frame uses a 1 1/8" threadless steerer. I don't know how many nice -17/-18 stems are available for that application.

I found mine (an ITM steel stem and a custom Seven Ti stem) on eBay.
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Old 07-29-05, 03:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose R
The frame uses a 1 1/8" threadless steerer. I don't know how many nice -17/-18 stems are available for that application.

I found mine (an ITM steel stem and a custom Seven Ti stem) on eBay.



I just ordered the FSA 115 OS in -17....should have it next week.
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Old 07-29-05, 04:11 PM   #9
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We publish the geometries of our Model G frames.

Doesn't everyone?

See the drawings below.

Oh, and Ben Schurman, who runs the Kogswell Owners Group, just got his Model G back from the paint shop. There's a small image below. And here's a gallery of other photos:

http://www.bogeydog.net/pics/album12

Yeah, it's hipster. But you'll get old some day too.
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Old 07-29-05, 04:15 PM   #10
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matthew my boy, the day you guys make one of those in a 62 is the day I buy one.
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Old 07-29-05, 04:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscoenyc57
I just ordered the FSA 115 OS in -17....should have it next week.

I did say "nice" didn't I...

fugly

I
I
I
I
V


Well, at least it has the four front bolts. And its 31.8 OS bar clamp, probably for use with its OS Carbon handlebars. Good times indeed...
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Old 07-29-05, 04:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ink1373
matthew my boy, the day you guys make one of those in a 62 is the day I buy one.
Hmmmm...

I'm not saying it won't happen...

I wonder how far the current SSFG craze will go. I'm selling a lot right now to college boys. That's a sure sign of the end.
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Old 07-29-05, 05:05 PM   #13
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Matthew - where did Ben get his frame painted at? Beautiful job.
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Old 07-29-05, 05:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose R
I did say "nice" didn't I...

fugly

I
I
I
I
V


Well, at least it has the four front bolts. And its 31.8 OS bar clamp, probably for use with its OS Carbon handlebars. Good times indeed...

I'm usin' it with the black Alum Deda bars..
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Old 07-29-05, 06:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose R


Stem length is usually decided on in conjuction with TT length and this total is determined by reach. Angles don't come into play here. We all have a desired cockpit position. And this cockpit position is adapted to the frame based on what your intended goal is.
I agree that the frame matches the intended application, but on my road frames I like the tip of my saddles to be 6cm behind the bottom bracket with a 180mm crank regardess of the seat tube angle.

So on my steeper angle road frame I use more set-back relative to the top tube in order to get it to 6cm behind the BB My Cannondale has a steeper seat tube angle than my Bianchi and even though they have the same top tube length I use a shorter stem on the C-dale. The reach from the tip of the saddle to the handlebar clamp is the same though despite the shorter stem.

You see my point?

For me 1 degree seat tube angle translates into a 15mm difference in stem length keeping reach to handlebars the same.

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Old 07-29-05, 08:05 PM   #16
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i take it you're using the exact same saddle on both your bikes? otherwise "the tip of my saddles to be 6cm behind the bottom bracket" is meaningless
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Old 07-29-05, 08:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose R
The frame uses a 1 1/8" threadless steerer. I don't know how many nice -17/-18 stems are available for that application.

I found mine (an ITM steel stem and a custom Seven Ti stem) on eBay.
I got the frame today and it is a 75* head tube. I can get a thomson elite 15* to make it parallel to the top tube (my old road preference) or a deda pista for a more aggessive posture. decisions to make.
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Old 07-29-05, 08:38 PM   #18
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thompson.

so much less ugly.

almost beautiful. almost.
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Old 07-29-05, 10:14 PM   #19
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53 -

How much post above the virtual TT are you showing?

Please post pics of those two bikes together. I want to see the different models. They sound cool.

Thanks,

-Z
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Old 07-30-05, 10:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baxtefer
i take it you're using the exact same saddle on both your bikes? otherwise "the tip of my saddles to be 6cm behind the bottom bracket" is meaningless
Yeah the saddle has to be the same or it is meaningless. In fact, if I changed the pedals on one bike to something else with a different stack height that would probably change it too.

Dino-


I don't have a digital camera. One bike is a lugged steel Bianchi with SLX and the other is an CAAD 4 Cannondale (same as CAAD 5 but with a standard headset rather than an integrated headset).

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Old 07-31-05, 08:08 PM   #21
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I was feeling a bareknuckle up today. They are built very well, I'm surprised and impressed. FYI -> EAI is out of black frames (in a 56 atleast) And they said it will take months to get them becasue they buy them by the hundreds. So I saw the blue and that, I think looks much better. Especially with Miche components because of the finish on the parts. So I am buying one on Tuesday. I recommend them and I can't wait. They do cost a nice chunk of coin though, but whatever.
Oh the geometry is very much like a standard track bike. Looks like shorter chain stay, steeper head tube. They are built to rip!
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Old 07-31-05, 08:55 PM   #22
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So I saw the blue and that, I think looks much better.
that's what I got, it's more like cyan.
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Old 07-31-05, 09:09 PM   #23
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Random interjection - does anyone know anything about toeverlap on these bikes?
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Old 07-31-05, 09:43 PM   #24
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not sure how many of ya run a thomson elite stem, but man you have to be easy on the faceplate. damn machined things are WAY easier to crack than something forged. i know because i just cracked one and i was going easy on the torque(i thought) and paying attention to keeping the gap the same top and bottom. it was easy enough i've decided it's time for a proper torque wrench...
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Old 08-01-05, 07:29 AM   #25
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fugs,
by measuring on my 50cm it's really, really close. so close that I need to finish the build to see if they will touch.
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