Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-09-05, 11:13 PM   #1
that feel
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: columbus
Bikes:
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
double u locks?

in place of a combo u lock + cable
im thinking this is the direction im going to move in with the recent upgrade in components
does anybody do this or know if this is more secure than the other combo
if i do go this way u lock to front tire to frame then whatever im locking to then u lock to back wheel to frame, would that suffice?
that feel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 12:07 AM   #2
shants
roll'em high
 
shants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: columbus, ohio
Bikes:
Posts: 2,391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i use a krypto fahgettaboudit chain through the rear wheel and frame to attach it to a pole, and a small onguard u-lock to lock the front wheel to the frame. it seems sufficient.
shants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 01:07 AM   #3
LóFarkas
LF for the accentdeprived
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Bikes:
Posts: 3,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Of course it's safer... If you have a lock and cable, there's just one lock to pick/shackle to cut; with two U's, there's two.
You might want to buy two different locks with different tumblers so if a thief knows how to pick one, it won't be enough. One of them could ba a mini for convenience. Maybe a Onguard Bulldog mini + a Krypto New York 3000 if you really want to make sure...

Actually, from start of school in September, I'll be leaving my crappier U-lock at school, and only carry the Abus Sinus with me. That way I can have an ultra-safe parking at my usual place without carrying all that weight, and I'll have a lock with me at all times.
LóFarkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 01:09 AM   #4
Turnip
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes: Raleigh Technium, Soma Rush
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's what I do. Either 2 u locks or a u lock and a chain. It's kind of a pain to carry around the extra weight, but it's worth it.
Turnip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 05:42 AM   #5
Aeroplane
jack of one or two trades
 
Aeroplane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Suburbia, CT
Bikes: Old-ass gearie hardtail MTB, fix-converted Centurion LeMans commuter, SS hardtail monster MTB
Posts: 5,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've heard recommendations that if you're going to have two locks, they should be different types, like a U and a chain, or a U and a cable. That's because to break a U-lock, you either need a jack or a leverage attack, where as for a cable or a chain you need a cutter. Either way, in order to steal your bike, the thief needs both tools, which is a lot harder to conceal than just one.
Aeroplane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 05:59 AM   #6
rideabike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
For what it's worth - regarding lock picks.

Round locks are very hard to pick. Also, I don't think that you should be overly concerned about people picking a lock. Very few people have learned how to do this and fewer have the tools, especially for round locks. You can't pick a round lock with the tools you use to pick a typical lock, unless the lock is defective, as the kryponite locks that were recently recalled were.

I was talking to a locksmith in an urban area who told me that he has never seen a lock picked by a thief. He said that it's much quicker to cut or to smash and grab. He also laughed at the idea that most of the junkies who steal things would have the patience to pick a lock.
rideabike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 07:05 AM   #7
12XU
Dismount Run Remount etc.
 
12XU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Some Latitude and Some Longitude
Bikes: A couple customs and some beaters.
Posts: 2,235
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Has anyone heard of or seen a hacked NY chain or Fahgeddaboutit? They're expensive, heavy, and cumbersome so I'd hate to think that this hardened steel is just a front and it's easy to break with an angle grinder. Stories?
12XU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 07:42 AM   #8
LóFarkas
LF for the accentdeprived
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Bikes:
Posts: 3,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideabike
Round locks are very hard to pick. Also, I don't think that you should be overly concerned about people picking a lock. Very few people have learned how to do this and fewer have the tools, especially for round locks. You can't pick a round lock with the tools you use to pick a typical lock, unless the lock is defective, as the kryponite locks that were recently recalled were.
That's just plain untrue. You could call the infamous evo series defective, but the truth is that many-many other tubular locks are only a bit more difficult to pick. Even I can pick them. It takes a bit of 'technique' and common sense approach, but it's pretty easy. As far as I know, the better companies have stopped making them altogether.
Here's a video that documents my fastest pick on a $25 Master Lock: http://cyrex.axio.hu/stuff/masterlock.wmv
4 seconds... That's way less than it takes to cut the shakle of the crappiest U-locks with powertools.
Even the wicked expensive street cuffs have been picked this way.

This sort of theft may be rare, but it sure does happen, and if you are buying a lock, avoid tubular tumblers if possible.


Ask alanbikehouston, the lock expert here. He said something like he wouldn't trust them to secure an emtpy beerbottle.
LóFarkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 07:46 AM   #9
ImOnCrank
Yay!11! I has!!!1
 
ImOnCrank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eastcoast
Bikes: Cocaine the white stallion, Custom Witcomb pista, (Being restored) 80's Pogliaghi Track, (destroyed) RAP Round Breeze NJS, Cannondale Jekyll 900, 84/5 Pinarello Montello (all italian)
Posts: 1,659
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I use the big ass krypto chain and a U-lock just for extra safety but the best locking mechanism is my apt's front door at night.
__________________
Bloodstains, speed kills, fast bikes, cheap thrills, French girls, fine wine...
ImOnCrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 08:12 AM   #10
abe1x
---------
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Bikes: Bomber Pro, Shorter, Iro MVP, Some old british steel thing
Posts: 247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Had one friend who had the chain cut, right through the link. Not sure what was used on it. Think she had the Fahgeddaboutit too.

Had another friend who was using an American lock on a chain (what was recommended post pic pen) and that was chopped right through, looked like it was done with large bolt cutter, took them a couple tries to cut it. That was at a known hot spot for thieves (outside of NYU's film school) and I've never seen or heard of the actual chains or kryptonites getting chopped so one would hope they are stronger then the American padlocks (which btw are what many NY stores use on their gates)..

Personally I use an old onguard mini plus a ny chain. found the chain can go through both wheels and a pole on track bikes and road bikes with short geometries. Also have a veratomic quick lock on the front..
abe1x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 08:23 AM   #11
absntr
Frankly, Mr. Shankly
 
absntr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago
Bikes:
Posts: 3,482
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
For quick lock-ups, a mini u-lock and a cable. For longer locks-ups, typically a movie or a party, it's NY 3000 U-lock up front, mini u-lock in back and a cable. I'm paranoid about this stuff.
absntr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 08:34 AM   #12
lala
contrarian
 
lala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: CO Springs
Bikes: 80's ross road bike/commuter, 80's team miyata, 90's haro mtb xtracycle conversion, koga mitaya world traveler
Posts: 2,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You would think that a cable just wouldn't be secure enough. But it seems like it works for the most part.
__________________
Higher ground for the apocalypse!
lala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 08:44 AM   #13
LóFarkas
LF for the accentdeprived
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Bikes:
Posts: 3,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It does, but it's enough for it not to work once to make you really, really sad...
LóFarkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 09:27 AM   #14
rideabike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That is a video of the defective lock being picked with a bic pen.

You can not do that with a lock that is not defective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LóFarkas
That's just plain untrue. You could call the infamous evo series defective, but the truth is that many-many other tubular locks are only a bit more difficult to pick. Even I can pick them. It takes a bit of 'technique' and common sense approach, but it's pretty easy. As far as I know, the better companies have stopped making them altogether.
Here's a video that documents my fastest pick on a $25 Master Lock: http://cyrex.axio.hu/stuff/masterlock.wmv
4 seconds... That's way less than it takes to cut the shakle of the crappiest U-locks with powertools.
Even the wicked expensive street cuffs have been picked this way.

This sort of theft may be rare, but it sure does happen, and if you are buying a lock, avoid tubular tumblers if possible.


Ask alanbikehouston, the lock expert here. He said something like he wouldn't trust them to secure an emtpy beerbottle.
rideabike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 10:15 AM   #15
lala
contrarian
 
lala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: CO Springs
Bikes: 80's ross road bike/commuter, 80's team miyata, 90's haro mtb xtracycle conversion, koga mitaya world traveler
Posts: 2,848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My original thought confirmed. ^
__________________
Higher ground for the apocalypse!
lala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 10:32 AM   #16
Shiznaz
Gone, but not forgotten
 
Shiznaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: spicer fixie, Haro BMX, cyclops track, Soma Double Cross, KHS Flite 100
Posts: 4,509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I use a shortened On Guard brute chain with an 'UNBREAKABLE' brand padlock (biggest padlock I have ever seen) to secure my rear wheel to something through the triangle or around the frame, and a krypto mini for attaching the front wheel to the frame.
__________________
I'm biking across North America on the Internet!
http://thedoublecross.blogspot.com/
Shiznaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 10:59 AM   #17
earjob
Safety First
 
earjob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: brooklyn, ny
Bikes:
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideabike
That is a video of the defective lock being picked with a bic pen.

You can not do that with a lock that is not defective.
I haven't watched the video LoFarkas linked to, but if you're still not convinced that a cylindrical key lock can be picked with a pen, see this thread:

Your brand new bicycle u-lock is not safe!

by page 4 pretty much everyone has cracked their round-key krypto with a bic.
earjob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 10:59 AM   #18
Yoshi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 2,544
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideabike
That is a video of the defective lock being picked with a bic pen.

You can not do that with a lock that is not defective.
Nope, not defective. The technique being used to "pick" the lock is called impressioning. A pliable material (in this case the plastic pen) is pushed into the lock and the pins push against the material until an impression is made. This impression then mimics the key.

Just about all tubular locks are susceptible to this sort of attack, provided you can find a piece of pliable material of the right diameter. This isn't terribly hard either - I've seen a video of a guy pick a kensington laptop lock with a roll of toilet paper! He cut out a piece from the cardboard tube that was just the right size.

Impressioning also works on regular locks with flat keys. However it is much more difficult to do and requires special "blank" keys that will fit the ward of the lock. Since tubular locks always have a circular ward it's not as difficult to find a blank that will fit it.

The new Kryptonite locks use disk locks which are extremely difficult to pick and require special tools. The American padlock requires only normal lock picks and is considerably easier to pick, but it does contain several security pins which makes it more difficult to pick than a typical lock.

With all that said, regular locks are rarely ever picked by thieves. Typically lock picking requires skills and tools that a thief wouldn't bother learning as there is usually a faster alternative.
Yoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 11:12 AM   #19
eddiebrannan
Senior Member
 
eddiebrannan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC
Bikes: DW
Posts: 3,363
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
jeez threads like this make me nervous

ps krypto NY chain with the bic-able lock for longer stays, onguard pitbull for quickies, no qr on my ride
eddiebrannan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 11:45 AM   #20
onlythebest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yeah this is all making me very confused about what to buy...

so bottom line- what is the best combination? best meaning the biggest theft deterrent?

andn btw, anyone else think that they should make a combination mini ulock?
onlythebest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 12:08 PM   #21
thesweaterkid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: philly
Bikes: '04 Fuji Track, 80's Schwinn Prelude (conversion), Nishiki Linear TT Bike, 80's Raleigh BMX
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i use a kryponite mini LS on the front wheel and frame, and then a mini on the back wheel to the frame. i stopped doing it for a while, but with my new wheelset ima need to start doing it again.

thats why you need a second bike...then you don't have to worry.
thesweaterkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 12:25 PM   #22
LóFarkas
LF for the accentdeprived
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Bikes:
Posts: 3,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
To make sure about the 'defective' tubular tumbler theory - I tried to open two locks from two different makers, and I succeeded with both within minutes. The basic design seems to be faulty: there is a very small difference between the steps of where the key positions the little locking pins, and quite high tolerances in manufacturing, which grow with use and wear, I guess. So a circular object that is moved around with some dexterity can easily fool the mechanism. Some high-end circular tumblers may be safe, but how could you tell? Buy something with an "extreme" key and the thief will walk on by your bike.

Best combination: U-lock + chain&padlock, or two different U-locks. Preferably with different types of lock tumblers, neither tubular.

Of course, bike value and neighborhood crime rate matters a lot.
LóFarkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 06:20 PM   #23
rideabike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for putting me right about this. You probably saved my portable generator from being taken when I have to chain it up outside and use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Nope, not defective. The technique being used to "pick" the lock is called impressioning. A pliable material (in this case the plastic pen) is pushed into the lock and the pins push against the material until an impression is made. This impression then mimics the key.

Just about all tubular locks are susceptible to this sort of attack, provided you can find a piece of pliable material of the right diameter. This isn't terribly hard either - I've seen a video of a guy pick a kensington laptop lock with a roll of toilet paper! He cut out a piece from the cardboard tube that was just the right size.

Impressioning also works on regular locks with flat keys. However it is much more difficult to do and requires special "blank" keys that will fit the ward of the lock. Since tubular locks always have a circular ward it's not as difficult to find a blank that will fit it.

The new Kryptonite locks use disk locks which are extremely difficult to pick and require special tools. The American padlock requires only normal lock picks and is considerably easier to pick, but it does contain several security pins which makes it more difficult to pick than a typical lock.

With all that said, regular locks are rarely ever picked by thieves. Typically lock picking requires skills and tools that a thief wouldn't bother learning as there is usually a faster alternative.
rideabike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 07:38 PM   #24
xthugmurderx
poser/hipster/whatever
 
xthugmurderx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: milwaukee, philly, and back, minneapolis in july
Bikes: d/a allez -trek t1
Posts: 994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
all this talk and i'm still going to freelock my bike at every drop tomorrow...

-jason
xthugmurderx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-05, 07:48 PM   #25
HAUS!
Go Fast.. Go Fixed!
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Connecticut
Bikes: Marinoni Squadra Fixed Conversion, Eatern Woods Research "Original Woods" MTB, Eastern Woods Research -Modified Trials (20" wheels), and a home made Chopper.
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My friend shortened my Faggeddahboutit (sp?) lock for me so that it would be short enough for my waist.... in about 25 seconds. I timed him! It required a power tool, but I know if someone really wants my ride, they can get it. I never leave it anywhere for too long and never overnight. Use your head and intuition and hope for the best.
HAUS! is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:20 PM.