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Thread: double u locks?

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    double u locks?

    in place of a combo u lock + cable
    im thinking this is the direction im going to move in with the recent upgrade in components
    does anybody do this or know if this is more secure than the other combo
    if i do go this way u lock to front tire to frame then whatever im locking to then u lock to back wheel to frame, would that suffice?

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    roll'em high shants's Avatar
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    i use a krypto fahgettaboudit chain through the rear wheel and frame to attach it to a pole, and a small onguard u-lock to lock the front wheel to the frame. it seems sufficient.

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    Of course it's safer... If you have a lock and cable, there's just one lock to pick/shackle to cut; with two U's, there's two.
    You might want to buy two different locks with different tumblers so if a thief knows how to pick one, it won't be enough. One of them could ba a mini for convenience. Maybe a Onguard Bulldog mini + a Krypto New York 3000 if you really want to make sure...

    Actually, from start of school in September, I'll be leaving my crappier U-lock at school, and only carry the Abus Sinus with me. That way I can have an ultra-safe parking at my usual place without carrying all that weight, and I'll have a lock with me at all times.
    Quote Originally Posted by dutret
    Do you deny that you are clueless or do you just think that "moron" didn't need to be tacked on there?
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    That's what I do. Either 2 u locks or a u lock and a chain. It's kind of a pain to carry around the extra weight, but it's worth it.

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    jack of one or two trades Aeroplane's Avatar
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    I've heard recommendations that if you're going to have two locks, they should be different types, like a U and a chain, or a U and a cable. That's because to break a U-lock, you either need a jack or a leverage attack, where as for a cable or a chain you need a cutter. Either way, in order to steal your bike, the thief needs both tools, which is a lot harder to conceal than just one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Irwin Goldstein
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    For what it's worth - regarding lock picks.

    Round locks are very hard to pick. Also, I don't think that you should be overly concerned about people picking a lock. Very few people have learned how to do this and fewer have the tools, especially for round locks. You can't pick a round lock with the tools you use to pick a typical lock, unless the lock is defective, as the kryponite locks that were recently recalled were.

    I was talking to a locksmith in an urban area who told me that he has never seen a lock picked by a thief. He said that it's much quicker to cut or to smash and grab. He also laughed at the idea that most of the junkies who steal things would have the patience to pick a lock.

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    Dismount Run Remount etc. 12XU's Avatar
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    Has anyone heard of or seen a hacked NY chain or Fahgeddaboutit? They're expensive, heavy, and cumbersome so I'd hate to think that this hardened steel is just a front and it's easy to break with an angle grinder. Stories?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rideabike
    Round locks are very hard to pick. Also, I don't think that you should be overly concerned about people picking a lock. Very few people have learned how to do this and fewer have the tools, especially for round locks. You can't pick a round lock with the tools you use to pick a typical lock, unless the lock is defective, as the kryponite locks that were recently recalled were.
    That's just plain untrue. You could call the infamous evo series defective, but the truth is that many-many other tubular locks are only a bit more difficult to pick. Even I can pick them. It takes a bit of 'technique' and common sense approach, but it's pretty easy. As far as I know, the better companies have stopped making them altogether.
    Here's a video that documents my fastest pick on a $25 Master Lock: http://cyrex.axio.hu/stuff/masterlock.wmv
    4 seconds... That's way less than it takes to cut the shakle of the crappiest U-locks with powertools.
    Even the wicked expensive street cuffs have been picked this way.

    This sort of theft may be rare, but it sure does happen, and if you are buying a lock, avoid tubular tumblers if possible.


    Ask alanbikehouston, the lock expert here. He said something like he wouldn't trust them to secure an emtpy beerbottle.
    Quote Originally Posted by dutret
    Do you deny that you are clueless or do you just think that "moron" didn't need to be tacked on there?
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    Yay!11! I has!!!1 ImOnCrank's Avatar
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    I use the big ass krypto chain and a U-lock just for extra safety but the best locking mechanism is my apt's front door at night.
    Bloodstains, speed kills, fast bikes, cheap thrills, French girls, fine wine...

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    Had one friend who had the chain cut, right through the link. Not sure what was used on it. Think she had the Fahgeddaboutit too.

    Had another friend who was using an American lock on a chain (what was recommended post pic pen) and that was chopped right through, looked like it was done with large bolt cutter, took them a couple tries to cut it. That was at a known hot spot for thieves (outside of NYU's film school) and I've never seen or heard of the actual chains or kryptonites getting chopped so one would hope they are stronger then the American padlocks (which btw are what many NY stores use on their gates)..

    Personally I use an old onguard mini plus a ny chain. found the chain can go through both wheels and a pole on track bikes and road bikes with short geometries. Also have a veratomic quick lock on the front..

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    Frankly, Mr. Shankly absntr's Avatar
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    For quick lock-ups, a mini u-lock and a cable. For longer locks-ups, typically a movie or a party, it's NY 3000 U-lock up front, mini u-lock in back and a cable. I'm paranoid about this stuff.

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    contrarian lala's Avatar
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    You would think that a cable just wouldn't be secure enough. But it seems like it works for the most part.
    Higher ground for the apocalypse!

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    It does, but it's enough for it not to work once to make you really, really sad...
    Quote Originally Posted by dutret
    Do you deny that you are clueless or do you just think that "moron" didn't need to be tacked on there?
    Bike on flickr and on FGG

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    That is a video of the defective lock being picked with a bic pen.

    You can not do that with a lock that is not defective.

    Quote Originally Posted by LóFarkas
    That's just plain untrue. You could call the infamous evo series defective, but the truth is that many-many other tubular locks are only a bit more difficult to pick. Even I can pick them. It takes a bit of 'technique' and common sense approach, but it's pretty easy. As far as I know, the better companies have stopped making them altogether.
    Here's a video that documents my fastest pick on a $25 Master Lock: http://cyrex.axio.hu/stuff/masterlock.wmv
    4 seconds... That's way less than it takes to cut the shakle of the crappiest U-locks with powertools.
    Even the wicked expensive street cuffs have been picked this way.

    This sort of theft may be rare, but it sure does happen, and if you are buying a lock, avoid tubular tumblers if possible.


    Ask alanbikehouston, the lock expert here. He said something like he wouldn't trust them to secure an emtpy beerbottle.

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    contrarian lala's Avatar
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    My original thought confirmed. ^
    Higher ground for the apocalypse!

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    Gone, but not forgotten Shiznaz's Avatar
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    I use a shortened On Guard brute chain with an 'UNBREAKABLE' brand padlock (biggest padlock I have ever seen) to secure my rear wheel to something through the triangle or around the frame, and a krypto mini for attaching the front wheel to the frame.
    I'm biking across North America on the Internet!
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    Safety First earjob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideabike
    That is a video of the defective lock being picked with a bic pen.

    You can not do that with a lock that is not defective.
    I haven't watched the video LoFarkas linked to, but if you're still not convinced that a cylindrical key lock can be picked with a pen, see this thread:

    Your brand new bicycle u-lock is not safe!

    by page 4 pretty much everyone has cracked their round-key krypto with a bic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rideabike
    That is a video of the defective lock being picked with a bic pen.

    You can not do that with a lock that is not defective.
    Nope, not defective. The technique being used to "pick" the lock is called impressioning. A pliable material (in this case the plastic pen) is pushed into the lock and the pins push against the material until an impression is made. This impression then mimics the key.

    Just about all tubular locks are susceptible to this sort of attack, provided you can find a piece of pliable material of the right diameter. This isn't terribly hard either - I've seen a video of a guy pick a kensington laptop lock with a roll of toilet paper! He cut out a piece from the cardboard tube that was just the right size.

    Impressioning also works on regular locks with flat keys. However it is much more difficult to do and requires special "blank" keys that will fit the ward of the lock. Since tubular locks always have a circular ward it's not as difficult to find a blank that will fit it.

    The new Kryptonite locks use disk locks which are extremely difficult to pick and require special tools. The American padlock requires only normal lock picks and is considerably easier to pick, but it does contain several security pins which makes it more difficult to pick than a typical lock.

    With all that said, regular locks are rarely ever picked by thieves. Typically lock picking requires skills and tools that a thief wouldn't bother learning as there is usually a faster alternative.

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    Senior Member eddiebrannan's Avatar
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    jeez threads like this make me nervous

    ps krypto NY chain with the bic-able lock for longer stays, onguard pitbull for quickies, no qr on my ride

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    yeah this is all making me very confused about what to buy...

    so bottom line- what is the best combination? best meaning the biggest theft deterrent?

    andn btw, anyone else think that they should make a combination mini ulock?

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    i use a kryponite mini LS on the front wheel and frame, and then a mini on the back wheel to the frame. i stopped doing it for a while, but with my new wheelset ima need to start doing it again.

    thats why you need a second bike...then you don't have to worry.

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    To make sure about the 'defective' tubular tumbler theory - I tried to open two locks from two different makers, and I succeeded with both within minutes. The basic design seems to be faulty: there is a very small difference between the steps of where the key positions the little locking pins, and quite high tolerances in manufacturing, which grow with use and wear, I guess. So a circular object that is moved around with some dexterity can easily fool the mechanism. Some high-end circular tumblers may be safe, but how could you tell? Buy something with an "extreme" key and the thief will walk on by your bike.

    Best combination: U-lock + chain&padlock, or two different U-locks. Preferably with different types of lock tumblers, neither tubular.

    Of course, bike value and neighborhood crime rate matters a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by dutret
    Do you deny that you are clueless or do you just think that "moron" didn't need to be tacked on there?
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    Thanks for putting me right about this. You probably saved my portable generator from being taken when I have to chain it up outside and use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshi
    Nope, not defective. The technique being used to "pick" the lock is called impressioning. A pliable material (in this case the plastic pen) is pushed into the lock and the pins push against the material until an impression is made. This impression then mimics the key.

    Just about all tubular locks are susceptible to this sort of attack, provided you can find a piece of pliable material of the right diameter. This isn't terribly hard either - I've seen a video of a guy pick a kensington laptop lock with a roll of toilet paper! He cut out a piece from the cardboard tube that was just the right size.

    Impressioning also works on regular locks with flat keys. However it is much more difficult to do and requires special "blank" keys that will fit the ward of the lock. Since tubular locks always have a circular ward it's not as difficult to find a blank that will fit it.

    The new Kryptonite locks use disk locks which are extremely difficult to pick and require special tools. The American padlock requires only normal lock picks and is considerably easier to pick, but it does contain several security pins which makes it more difficult to pick than a typical lock.

    With all that said, regular locks are rarely ever picked by thieves. Typically lock picking requires skills and tools that a thief wouldn't bother learning as there is usually a faster alternative.

  24. #24
    poser/hipster/whatever xthugmurderx's Avatar
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    all this talk and i'm still going to freelock my bike at every drop tomorrow...

    -jason

  25. #25
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    My friend shortened my Faggeddahboutit (sp?) lock for me so that it would be short enough for my waist.... in about 25 seconds. I timed him! It required a power tool, but I know if someone really wants my ride, they can get it. I never leave it anywhere for too long and never overnight. Use your head and intuition and hope for the best.

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