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  1. #1
    occam's razor rwan's Avatar
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    I actually wrote this to post in a different forum. But I figgured I'd stick it in here too. I'm not very good at reviewing stuff, and I'm not a messenger or anything... But i took lots of pictures! that's worth something, i think.




    CHROME VS. TIMBUK2


    I recently acquired the Chrome metropolis," the second largest (or third smallest) messenger bag on chrome's messenger bag production line. Having previously owned a chrome product (medium size), I must first and foremost admit that I am partial to their design, company, and am/have been a satisfied end line user.

    However, due to some confusion and curiousity, I acquired a timbuk2 pro messenger series, large.

    both timbuk2 and chrome are well respected messenger bag manufacturers, and since both are about within the same price range, there's some debate as to which is superior. i don't intend to keep the timbuk2 bag (merely cause i've already been using my chrome, and it seems frivolous to have two similarly sized messenger bags), but it seems logical that while i've got them both i should compare for a future consumer's benefit.


    MANUFACTURER'S SPEC

    www.chromebags.com
    "chrome metropolis"
    Dimensions: 26 x 14 x 7 (flat dimensions)
    Volume: 2000 cu. in.
    $120.00 ordered direct from chromebags.com

    www.timbuk2.com
    timbuk2 pro messenger series, L
    Dimensions: 16.5"x12.75"x 8.5"
    Volume: 2149 cu. in.
    $90.00 from ebags.com (free shipping)

    GENERAL

    color
    one of the neat things about both bag companies is they are highly customizable. many of these bags are made-to-order, so if you're not boring like me, you can get a bag in pretty much whatever color that suits you. chrome bags offer a 2 color scheme, with a PVC tarp liner running horizontally across the bag's cordura surface. timbuk2 allows 3 color variants, which run in three solid stripes vertically along the bag. they offer tons of color choices.

    warranty
    both companies offer a standard warranty against manufacturer's defect or workmanship. from what i hear, chrome and timbuk2 are very solid companies, and for the most part, their products are built to last a lifetime. on a side note, timbuk2 does NOT do repairs on injured/worn bags, while chrome offers service, perhaps for a price. see timbuk2's and chrome's warranty claims -- http://www.timbuk2.com/tb2/warranty.t2
    and
    http://www.chromebags.com/Messengerbags.html#

    in general, timbuk2 is a more well known bag company, with more advertising and sales in the retail market. their office and factory is based in san francisco, where their classic and custom messengers are still made. other timbuk2 designs are made in china, presumably due to economic concern. they claim fair and ethical treatment of chinese craftsmen and guarantee a quality product, no matter what factory in which it is produced. which seems reasonable.

    chrome bags is also based in SF, and as far as i can tell, is still their primary location of operation. they also own a warehouse in colorado, where i suspect they store and ship finalized products.

    SIZE/CAPACITY

    the chrome and timmy bags i have hold 2000CI and 2149CI respectively. here is a comparison of the two, flattened.

    as you can see, the chrome is a lot longer, but the timbuk2 is wider (not shown).

    the length of the chrome can sometimes be a pain, because if you ever carry the bag empty and tighten it down to your body, the length will actually wrap around your torso a little. i can't imagine what it's like with the chrome kremlin (XL). when it's got stuff inside, the wrap is not a problem. i guess if you are fat you wouldn't have this problem either.

    STORAGE

    let's let the beer do the talking.

    chrome


    timmy


    in both, there looks like there's plenty of space for more. possibly a whole case.

    here's some random textbooks and some laundry

    timmy


    chrome


    DURABILITY

    the stitching and workmanship of both bags is impressive and very sturdy. on either, there are no loose threads, frays, or shoddy seams. stitching looks tight and rugged. chrome's site says they use "mil spec. seam binding" and "nylon 69 thread" (IMO, the term "mil spec." is very open to discrepancy). the timbuk2 also appears to use quality material and workmanship. the stitching of the strap attachment is visible on the inside of the bag, showing it passes through all the bag material in an overbuilt fashion.



    material
    the chrome uses 1000d cordura shell with a "truck tarp liner" as it's waterproof cavity. this material and design feel very solid, heavy, and rugged. the tarp does not wear easily under weight or sharp edges, and the cordura feels very stiff and resistant to abrasion.

    the timbuk2 uses a "Dimension-Polyant® x-Pac™ VX21 nylon laminate exterior" with an inner, waterproof vinyl liner. using timbuk2's "build your own bag" service, you can have the option of having nylon or cordura exteriors. although considerably heavier, i'd go for the cordura.






    waterproof
    i can only vouche for the chrome bag, since that's the only bag i've worn in the rain/snow. but it's waterproof, that's for damn sure. the chrome is literally a bag inside a bag, and the PVC can be seperated from the cordura exterior.


    one thing kind of worries me about the timbuk2 bag. it seems that if the bag were stuffed with stuff, due to the horizontal carry design, there would be a small gap between the bag cavity and what the top flap could cover. i think this is just being nitpicky, and in practical applications the timmy is as waterproof as anything else. here's a pic of what i'm talking about.


    CARRY

    chrome has an integrated pad into it's shoulder strap-- a feature that i like very much. timbuk2 has an attachable shoulder pad, available in many different colors and materials. both options seem fair, and although i like having chrome's built in padding, the detachable padding would be nice for days that are really hot or if i'm not carrying a lot of weight.

    both bags are comfortable to wear, although i worry some on timbuk2's part if i were to carry 3+ books. the flat shoulder strap digs into my collarbone with too much weight. i'm kind of a wuss.

    another note is that the chrome bag, when tightened down, seems to cling to my body considerably tighter than the timbuk2. i think this has something to do with chrome's design-- the bag itself rides at an angle on the mule's back. there are pros and cons to this. as a cyclist, this bag is very comfortable and responsive to the rider's movements. it rides high up (when tightened down) and does not appear to shift. cons are it (IMO) looks silly. when the rider isn't on his/her bike, it doesn't seem practical. it also makes it difficult for the carrier to access the inside of the bag while keeping the bag on. and while it's never happened to me, carrying my bag at an angle on my back constantly has me paranoid of things falling out. they don't, but maybe...

    the timbuk2, when adjusted, rides horizontally on the rider's back. while this tends to shift a bit more while on a bicycle, it's a bag that suits a walker quite well. accessing the inner cavities while wearing the bag is easy.

    timbuk2, filled w/ 3 books + laundry


    chrome, 3 books, laundry

    that's right, i'm wearing a pot on my head. here's why--

    FEATURES

    perhaps the most signature trademark of chrome bags is the seatbelt buckle on the shoulder strap. this allows the user easy detachment of said bag from his/her back with the push of a button. IMO the seatbelt is a fantastic innovation, as it allows me jettison all of my equipment on the kitchen floor right as i rush into my apt, in search of either beer/toilet (or both). what's more important, the user does NOT have to lift the bag over his/her head to remove the bag! this feature allows for pots w/ handles to be worn on the head-- a convention that timbuk2 consumers may find excruciatingly difficult. what's bad about the seatbelt is:
    1) looks silly(IMO) if it weren't shiny it'd be a bit less silly. chrome used to make the buckle with a black plastic covering, i dunno why they stopped that.
    2) it's like this big red target for all your jackass friends to aim for. get your bag ejected at the wrong time and that expensive laptop inside is history..
    3) it's loud and metal. ever walk into a lecture hall just a few minutes late? there's nothing like sneaking in there, removing your bag and sitting down, only to have that buckle swing out and clang into every seat/seatpost/table/floor on the way down.


    quick-adjustment
    both bags feature a quick adjustment mechanism on the shoulder strap, allowing the user to tighten/loosen the bag on the fly.
    the timbuk2 uses a plastic cam that lifts to adjust shoulder length, then closes down to lock the belt in place. although made of plastic, the cam feels very durable and is effective.




    the chrome uses a metal D-ring pull system--a textured bar uses the weight inside the bag to squeeze down on the strap, holding it in place. pulling the D-ring manually releases the tension across the bar and loosens the strap. when full and under some weight and movement, i've known my strap to slip some, requiring occasional readjustment.


    in addition to the slippage, the slack end of the strap hangs freely from the bag. free to blow in the wind, free to get caught in low tree branches, free constantly be in the way. timbuk2 uses an extra slide-buckle to keep the slack end out of the way.


    oh p'shaw!!



    both bags come with sternum straps, which help stabilize and hold both corners of the bag. the chrome metropolis/kremlin have two attachment points via plastic buckle, while the smaller models (citizen, mini metro) only have one. timbuk2 has a free-sliding buckle attached to the shoulder strap. one notable feature about the timbuk2 is that the sternum strap is detachable, and there are attachment points on BOTH corners of the bag-- by design making this bag ambidextrous. the chrome bag is only suitable for right-handed riders (left hand models available). i almost never use the sternum strap on my chrome and will probably resort to cutting it off.






    pockets
    timbuk2 features lots of pockets + an internal organizer for pens, cell phone, misc. equipment. this i like.




    the chrome is less pocket friendly. it does, however, have integrated slots for pens and a zippered slot for flat items. there is a cavity that fits a U-lock quite nicely as well as two side pockets which fit the paperback version of "a heartbreaking work of staggering genius" exactly.




    MISC.

    Here's something dumb! the chrome bag pen holders make it so if you use a bic disposable pen/pencil, the cap/eraser will run over the zipper track of the pocket! how sh1tty is that?

    look, chrome, everyone uses those bic disposables. they are everywhere. they cost $.15. you can steal them. see? i got mine from the department of defense->

    they should have thought that one through.

    when i got my timbuk2 bag in the mail, inside was this beer jacket thing. i don't know why this was in there. it says "#1 dad on it. that's me, i guess.


    ooh ooh, chrome builds in this long ass velcro strip all the way down the shoulder strap, which allows for the attachment of modular items, and the velcro keeps it in place-- very nice. i've attached my flashlight.





    very cool.




    Overall, both bags are damn worth every penny. They're built mighty tough, come from respectable manufacturers, are composed of quality materials, and will perform the task(s) with which it was designed. these are truely the things that will last you your lifetime.








    Zam!




    1*
    Last edited by rwan; 08-28-05 at 12:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Hello. crushkilldstroy's Avatar
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    this may be the greatest product review ever written.

    you, sir, get two thumbs up.

  3. #3
    occam's razor rwan's Avatar
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    haha, thanks.

    it sucks cause when i posted it in my other forums i had everything nicely hyperlinked into text with referances to brands, materials, models, etc. html should be allowed in these boards. :'(

  4. #4
    poser/hipster/whatever xthugmurderx's Avatar
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    yes...i concur on the excellent review..although. for carrying schoolbooks may be different. but chrome bags are absolutely terrible for messengering. (that won't go untested) the shape is all stupid. not nearly wide enough for boxes, my seatbelt thing got sticky and doesn't like to click in sometimes (not that big a deal) mostly just the shape. i commend them on the strap design. very nice. and the height of the bag as well...all in all, they are excellent bags, i guess...but they just aren't wide enough for messeng'rin, (the teardrop type shape doesn't lend itself to any favors, either...not to mention they kinda look like diapers when fully loaded. don't get me wrong. I use a Kremlin (and yes, they do wrap around you pretty well) but ordered a reload bag for better design.

    i used a tumbuk2 medium before i got the chrome, and the only complaint i had with that was that it was too small (bigger size would have taken care of that) and that it tended to slip around you when riding.

    and can't forget the be-a-dick-to-hipsters comment...if you used a bookbag for carrying books and a messenger bag for messengering, you wouldn't have to worry about disrupting class with a click. (couldn't resist saying it...but i don't mean it)

    -jason

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Hmm, bio, o-chem, and phys. Pre-med? When are you applying? Are always packing that glock everytime you ride?

  6. #6
    Senior Member eddiebrannan's Avatar
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    the internet wouldn't be any good without people like you rwan.

    i have had a large timbuk2 for many many years. i really find is that if you *really* adjust it each time it won't slip (when it's mostly empty the right side is all the way into my armpit), and it's not at all uncomfortable that way. it tends to rotate out to the right unless it's cinched down. the only occasional beef is that when it's tight like that and i unclip the keeper strap and rotate the bag around my body the edge of the mainstrap sometimes cuts into my neck. but still, i've worn this bag daily for years and years and i've no complaints. oh and hey i'm not a messenger.

  7. #7
    Not so Senior Member Eureka's Avatar
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    Well done.

    And if you like this: "a heartbreaking work of staggering genius", try this:
    "Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close."

  8. #8
    The what? BlueBrew's Avatar
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    Lmao He Has A *** In His Pocket

  9. #9
    Loose Member
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    Nice job on the review, I've had my TimBuk2 for 10 years now....One Tough Bag.

    Tony
    I only drink on two occasions ... when I am alone and when I am with some one.

  10. #10
    I like turtles mascher's Avatar
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    Heh, even though they call them sternum straps, I always wear them across my belly. Snug it up and the table muscle keeps it from moving an inch.

    I've seen a full 2-4 inside a Cocotte bag, and my sickly MEC bag barely holds two sixes, where that 12 of Killians looks like a kitten in a garbage bag in that bag. I think I need to pony up for one of those expensive bags.

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    I have one of the Kremlins made for Kozmo, and I kind of wish Chrome offered some of its features on their normal bags. The strap is the coarser-weave material like the tb2 uses, and instead of having that seatbelt buckle and d-ring arrangement, it just uses regular plastic bits, the combination of which makes it way less prone to slipping and being dropped by people who bang the seatbelt release.

  12. #12
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    Best. Review. Ever.

    I'm using two Timbuks, if you get Timbuk bags order them custom that way they're made in SF otherwise it's the usual slave labor in China. They're nice bags, really light when unladen, and handle heavy loads very gracefully. Easy to shift from "left handed" to "right handed" too, turns out I'm a "left handed" bag user.

    For most of us that cam-lock thing results in a this big loop that hangs off to the side, I need to sit down with my bag and come up with a way to re-route the loop or something. The cam-lock seems reliable, no slippage problems.

    One of these days I'll probably get a chrome mini-metro, just to try something different.

  13. #13
    Senior Member eddiebrannan's Avatar
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    tuck the loop under the bag flap. s'what i do

  14. #14
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    managed to break my timbuk2 last night, just in time for this review. Plastic buckle popped apart as I tried to adjust. Of course the thing was waaaay overloaded. Might be fixable haven't looked yet, had a good 3 year run, although I never quite could get it to sit the way I wanted, especially with the bigger loads. The more you stuff in the harder it is to adjust the straps, especially if you like it up high. I'm double jointed at the elbow too, but reaching the straps on a full and high bag is a real artform..

    Thinking a Pac or Reload with the next large paycheck.

    and yeah that's from daily use and occasional amateur hauling, nothing professional.

  15. #15
    Senior Citizen Discount fixedfiend's Avatar
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    great, now review the PAC for me so I can decide if I want to drop 3 bills on it.
    PAC vs. RELOAD Review?

  16. #16
    contrarian lala's Avatar
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    So, Ryan, when are you submiting to the fge.com?
    Higher ground for the apocalypse!

  17. #17
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    mmmm.... o-chem...

    but anyway, the review was fantastic. best i've read. I like the buckle on the chrome though, a major selling point to me (proud owner of a metropolis). I like the secret stash pocket on the chrome's as well

  18. #18
    Senior Member filtersweep's Avatar
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    Are your prices as tested? OR were there additional parts/pads that needed to be purchased?

    I've been struggling what to do in the near future when we are selling both cars and moving overseas. I want to remain car free as long as possible. Both bags you review have the same capacity as a set of panniers. The question is, how uncomfortable would a fully loaded bag be on a 20 mile ride?

  19. #19
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    panniers are always going to be more comfortable then a bag. but not nearly as useful once you dismount..

    I too would love to see a PAC vs. RELOAD review, anything remotely as good as this one would be so helpful. Totally torn right now. Reload gets my heart, love the hand done aspect, plus they are cheaper. But Pac hits the geek in me, I love clothes that come with documentation. That plus the padded back.

    Also trying to figure out the difference between the Pac Street Large and Deluxe (other then the $60). From this page http://www.pacdesigns.com/chart.htm the only major differences seem to be an extra layer of cordura and the "Deluxe Suspension Strapping". I could do without the fourth layer, but is the expensive strapping really that much better?

    Have a feeling I'll be making some choices via coin tossing...

  20. #20
    Mo' Senior SSSasky's Avatar
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    Good review, although I disagree with your comments about the shape of the Chrome being poor for couriering. I know plenty o' couriers that use them, and like them. I have a Kremlin, and I've never had any trouble with boxy stuff. I like the buckle.

    I would also take issue with your extensive derogatory use of 'gay' and 'queer', but I'm afraid you might bus' a cap in ma ass.

    Overall, good review. Nice to see so many photos, and the side-by-side comparison was really useful.

  21. #21
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    as everyone else has said, great review. i've had a metropolis for about a week, and so far, it's been great. i love the seatbelt buckle (although i will have to be wary of friends pushing it while i have my laptop in the bag--thanks for pointing that out, rwan!), it's easy to adjust with one hand, it's comfortable, blah blah blah. today my girlfriend and i went to the farmer's market and i brought home probably forty pounds worth of stuff in it on my bike.

    i also take offense to the homophobic language. that **** ain't coo'.

    i'd like to see a chrome vs. r.e.load review. we should all go in on a r.e.load for rwan so he can compare the two. okay, just kidding.

  22. #22
    poser/hipster/whatever xthugmurderx's Avatar
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    reload over chrome anyday. though i have no pictures to back this up, reload is FAR superior. they are...

    more comfortable -up for debate, i guess

    better shaped- not as ridiculously huge in all the wrong places, (unless you get it custom)

    hand made in either philadelphia or seattle- and you can go talk to them, cause they are rad! ( at least in philly, haven't been to seattle)

    TOTALLY customizable- i had them put a seatbelt clasp in mine because their straps are the ONLY thing in don't like about the bags, can't have a solid strap. Mine is also 5 inches taller, an inch wider, and 2 inches deeper than a stock courier deluxe. and if you want a color they don't have, and you can get it for them, they'll do that too, but no zipper pockets..they won't do that. not to mention the custom embroidery.

    granted, they are more expensive, but you get to meet the makers, and they use all american products, etc. you don't get a stash pocket (which isn't really good for much, aside from the cool-factor) and they have a different cinching mechanism (which some people like, and some people don't...a lot of dudes here swear by them)

    that said, i paid $70 and a timbuk2 medium for a used kremin, which i use and do love. don't get me wrong. i have no vendetta against chrome bags. they're GREAT for the money, but nowhere near the best. they're EVERYWHERE (for better or worse). i guess you could say that chrome is the bag equivalent to a pista. and we all have our own opinions on those, but you can't deny they are a great value. I have a few gripes on the design of the chrome bag, and the strap does get pretty rank ( also discussed here), but i guess there IS a solution to that. it, as with everything else, comes down to personal preference.

    I'd say that chromes are probably better constructed, but by no means tougher ( i mean that the stitching is perhaps more orderly, nothing else) I know a ton of people that use reload bags, and only like 6 or so kids (messenger kids) use chrome. that could be because i am in philly, but who knows. I know a few pretty damn old reload bags that are still around. I dunno...that is my two cents...i'll let this get back on topic now.

    -jason

  23. #23
    occam's razor rwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSSasky

    I would also take issue with your extensive derogatory use of 'gay' and 'queer'

    i'm sorry about that.


    i should have edited all that before i posted it here.

    like i said, i wrote this for a personal forum that's inhabited by my close friends-- they know i don't mean anything by it. i dunno why i use that so often as a figure of speech. i'm just crude, i guess.

    Last edited by rwan; 08-28-05 at 12:52 PM.

  24. #24
    occam's razor rwan's Avatar
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    also, thanks for the kind words everyone.

  25. #25
    occam's razor rwan's Avatar
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    also, good eye on my *******. i didn't even notice it.

    i don't know why i had that in my pocket either. usually i keep it locked up and then in a safebox under my bed.

    i think there might have been a boogieman around, or something.

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