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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 08-26-05, 10:41 PM   #1
benk0
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Sugino 75 cranks + 109mm spindle + Italian threading... does it exist???

I've searched the forum archives... however I cannot find a definitive answer.

My LBS is recommending trying the Shimano UN72/73 in 107 and 110 to see which will work... however, I know for a fact I need a 109 with the ISO taper. I currently have an old Sugino BB with a shimano 115mm spindle (WAY too long for the S75's) but for some reason it works with my vintage Stronglights.

I would love to run my new cranks but my chainline says, "hells no".

Help?

Thanks.
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Old 08-26-05, 11:11 PM   #2
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hmmmm. i just ran into this myself. i couldnt get the old to work wiith the new. my situation was opposite yours. i had the stronglight cranks and needed more room. the old spindle would not work with the new bb. so i had to replace it. i am not sure if it is the case with the new spindle working with the old cups. good luck. let me know what you find out.

d
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Old 08-26-05, 11:57 PM   #3
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Those cranks are weird... I tried a Sugino bb with mine, and the chainline was off by several mm's. Go for the 107. Myself and others I know use a Campy 111, which also works fine.
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Old 08-27-05, 06:18 AM   #4
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Shimano BB-7610

This BB comes in english and italian. Its sealed cartridge design.

I've ordered from Swinnerton before. Overseas shipping is kinda pricey, but you don't have much choice.

I use this BB with my Sugino 75 cranks. No chainline issues.
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Old 08-28-05, 09:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkthat
Those cranks are weird... I tried a Sugino bb with mine, and the chainline was off by several mm's. Go for the 107. Myself and others I know use a Campy 111, which also works fine.
woah, you don't mean that you use the sugino 75 with a campy bb, do you? the campy taper is different than the sugino. you should only use shimano, sugino or other bb with jis taper with sugino cranks.
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Old 08-28-05, 09:48 AM   #6
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i use a campy BB with my suginos and have never had a problem. i've also used my dura ace cranks on a campy BB without issue, and swapped them back onto a shimano BB.
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Old 03-13-07, 09:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by travsi
woah, you don't mean that you use the sugino 75 with a campy bb, do you? the campy taper is different than the sugino. you should only use shimano, sugino or other bb with jis taper with sugino cranks.
A very credible mechanic today was telling me that you should only use Campy or Sugino 75 BB's with a Sugino 75 crank. There's also this thread where at the end someone emailed Sugino and they said about the same thing. I guess I'm about to switch out my UN54 for a Campy BB. This seems like a big contrast to what bikeforums has led me to believe, but if Sugino AND a very credible mechanic are saying the same thing, it seems to me that's truth.
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Old 03-13-07, 09:39 PM   #8
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108?

http://www.philwood.com/Price%20List/P11.pdf
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Old 03-13-07, 10:42 PM   #9
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ugh. not again.
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Old 03-13-07, 11:00 PM   #10
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ugh. not again.
**** it, I'm just trying to have things set up proper.
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Old 03-13-07, 11:19 PM   #11
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ok, i've had a few drinks so bare with me. if i understand your question correctly, just buy whichever cups you want and throw the sugino spindle in there. if i totally read this wrong then i apologize....sike!!!!
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Old 03-13-07, 11:32 PM   #12
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ok, i've had a few drinks so bare with me. if i understand your question correctly, just buy whichever cups you want and throw the sugino spindle in there. if i totally read this wrong then i apologize....sike!!!!
just a heads up, i bumped this thread to ask my own question out of not wanting to start a new thread, otherwise it's a year and a half old thread.
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Old 03-14-07, 05:40 AM   #13
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I'm using a Sugino 75 with a Shimano 110mm BB and a Phil doublefixed. All lines up nicely.
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Old 03-15-07, 09:31 PM   #14
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hmm, not trying to start debate but just letting you guys know:

i switched over to a campy 111mm BB on my drivetrain (sugino 75's, formula hubs, EAI 1/8 cog), and the chainline is perfect, there is no more clicking noises, the crank is sitting COMPLETELY on the spindle as opposed to really sticking out and exposing the spindle with the UN54, and things feel a little smoother. i really don't think it was a typo on the sugino website where they listed the 75 as needing an ISO taper. sure, you can run it with JIS like a shimano BB but it seems less than optimal as compared to now. i don't know if that's why skids are feeling easier today, or if it was my straps not loosening this time, but that was another noticeable thing.

anyways, carry on.
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Old 03-15-07, 09:48 PM   #15
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sugno 75 bb's come in italian threading. they're hard to find, but they exist.

edit: i think business cycles has em.
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Old 03-15-07, 10:05 PM   #16
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My understanding is that all NJS parts must be interchangable. I don't see why a Shimano BB wouldn't work with 75s. With a UNxx 110, you're "off" by a 1/2mm, which is probably closer to 42mm than your rear hub/cog setup.
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Old 03-15-07, 10:11 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by moki
My understanding is that all NJS parts must be interchangable. I don't see why a Shimano BB wouldn't work with 75s. With a UNxx 110, you're "off" by a 1/2mm, which is probably closer to 42mm than your rear hub/cog setup.
the shimano BB worked fine as far as perfect chainline, but the crankarm was not sitting all the way onto the spindle of the BB like it is now with the campys, and i was having issues with clicking noises (could partially be related to incompetent installation on my part, but the driveside arm was definitely right because the chainline was perfecto, who knows). the chainline is perfect on the 111mm bottom bracket just as it was on the 108mm, i think you need to factor more into the equation than just the lengths, because the crank is sitting closer to the frame on the campy's.

anyways, are NJS parts all interchangeable or is that just an assumption? and un54's aren't even NJS so how does that factor into this, do dura ace bottom brackets have the same taper or what?
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Old 03-16-07, 05:18 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andre nickatina
anyways, are NJS parts all interchangeable or is that just an assumption? and un54's aren't even NJS so how does that factor into this, do dura ace bottom brackets have the same taper or what?
NJS is just a stamp saying the part has been official approved for Keirin racing in Japan. It says nothing about compatibility. Campagnolo had some NJS parts for example and a Campy NJS locking could not be used on a Dura Ace track hub etc.

When you're talking about cranksets, you're really talking about 'taper'. The two main standards are JIS (Shimano) and ISO (Campy etc). It just so happens that the vast majority of NJS cranksets are JIS taper.

But it does seem that there is some debate over whether Sugino has a true JIS taper. Best options seem to be either the matching 75 BB or a Phil BB. Lots of folks seem to use them fine with Shimano with no problems. Would be wary of using them with an ISO taper BB.
Sugino 75: Designed to work with Shimano BB?
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Old 03-16-07, 06:10 AM   #19
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hte MIche bottom brackets come in 110, they are adjustable a bit, they are cheap and they are ISO taper...
edit: and you can get them in italian threading of course.
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Old 03-16-07, 08:17 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fixedpip
But it does seem that there is some debate over whether Sugino has a true JIS taper. Best options seem to be either the matching 75 BB or a Phil BB. Lots of folks seem to use them fine with Shimano with no problems. Would be wary of using them with an ISO taper BB.
Sugino 75: Designed to work with Shimano BB?
just sayin, on their website they list it as an ISO, a member emailed sugino in the past and they confirmed it's ISO, and i'm getting better results with my ISO BB (crank sits deeper into the taper, symetrical, perfect chainline). which is why i'm trying to say, the sugino 75 may not be JIS as was previously thought/assumed.
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Old 03-16-07, 08:49 AM   #21
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Sugino's website does indeed list these cranks as "4-TAPER(ISO)"
http://www.suginoltd.co.jp/track_e.html

They also list the RD2 and Messenger cranks as ISO.

Anyone care to explain as I thought it had been well established that all these tapers were JIS?
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Old 03-16-07, 08:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fixedpip
Sugino's website does indeed list these cranks as "4-TAPER(ISO)"
http://www.suginoltd.co.jp/track_e.html

They also list the RD2 and Messenger cranks as ISO.

Anyone care to explain as I thought it had been well established that all these tapers were JIS?
shoot those guys an email / find someone from sugino to contact.
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Old 03-16-07, 08:48 PM   #23
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phil wood
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Old 03-16-07, 09:04 PM   #24
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i'm also curious at this point. i had always taken it for granted that the 75's were jis, but businesscycles also lists them as iso, which is surprising to me. i'm somewhat nervous i may be deforming my crank arms if that's the case...
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Old 03-16-07, 09:33 PM   #25
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if it's any incentive, something must have not been matching up on my UN54 spindle because there was already rust on it from just a week use and 1 rain day, i don't know if that's normal, due to improper crank arm installation or because sugino 75's were not made for them.
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