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  1. #1
    nerd hyphy jonb's Avatar
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    Suzue Pro Max vs Phil Wood, Opinions Please

    I'm building up my keirin 'Presto' frame and I'm getting down to having a new wheel set built. I've always wanted Phils but when I think about the 80 bucks(give or take) that I could save if I buy a set of Suzue Pro Maxs, I start to twitch, that 80 dollars could buy a lot of other parts. This will probably be the first nice wheelset I've owned and I certainly want to do it right, is the money better spent on Phils or will the Pro Maxs impress me?

    Opinions, feedback, whatever, is all welcome.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    dc pirate, 4evah. chimblysweep's Avatar
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    i love my phil's, but the guys in SF that i rode with saturday (judah, you there?) swear by the suzue's. i think it depends on who you talk to, and also how well you plan on taking care of 'em. Phil's work best if you repack the bearings about once a year.

  3. #3
    Slower than you Judah's Avatar
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    Depends what the bike will be used for.

    I have wheelsets with Phils, Promax NJS, and Promax SB. My opinion, and others will probably argue, is that the Phils aren't really worth the extra money unless you ride the bike a *lot*, in any weather. My experience has been that the bearings have more drag than the NJS Promax, and the hubs weigh quite a bit more. Of course, if you plan on this being a work-bike, then the Phils may be the right choice, as they are pretty bomb-proof, and the bearings are easy to replace. Pro-max SB are also lighter, and have replaceable bearings, and I rode a pair daily all through the winter last year and had no issues with them.

    Just my $0.02

    Edit: I actually swear by Superbe Pro hubs, but Promax NJS are a great deal for the money

  4. #4
    some dude jayrooney's Avatar
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    these two can't be compared.
    they look totally different, and when riding a track bike the "look" takes priority. joking

  5. #5
    cxmagazine dot com pitboss's Avatar
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    If speed is a concern, Phil makes open cartridge "low drag" bearing sets for track apps - but riding open bearings on the street, well...

    I really like the ProMax SB hubs I have, and Judah is right about the phils - bomber for sure for year round riding. I know a few people in Chi that ride the SBs year round and really like 'em.

    If it is Phils or ProMax - go ProMax
    Deathlap - cyclocross, training, beer,...escape hatch

  6. #6
    nerd hyphy jonb's Avatar
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    Great, there doesn't seem to be a downside to the Pro-Max and I save money plus the glittery decal thing matches my frame. It doesn't get any better than that.

  7. #7
    roll'em high shants's Avatar
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    i tend to think that phil are overhyped -- this is not to say that they aren't great hubs, but they are certainly not the "end-all." many hubs are just as good if not better.

    for the best cost/performance ratio of the two i would certainly go with promax hubs. if you want to be a proper njs hipster (to go with your frame), go with the 36h promax loosebearing.

  8. #8
    Slower than you Judah's Avatar
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    So, it seems that the consensus is:

    Daily, year-round, heavy riding = Phils
    Daily, year-round, commute riding = Promax SB
    Weekend/fair-weather bike = Promax NJS

    To clarify, on my beater/winter bike I have Phils, but I'm just as happy with the Promax SB that I used to have on there (which are now on my wife's beater bike). On my keirin bike I have Promax NJS or Superbe pro NJS(best hubs ever!), depending on what kind of riding I'm doing, and I'm very happy with the Promax NJS, they spin very nicely, but I don't know that I'd want to have them on a rain bike. Mostly because I don't want to be constantly servicing hubs in the winter. For winter/weather riding, I think Promax SB are a good choice, again, unless you plan to seriously abuse your bike, in which case you should go with the Phils.
    Last edited by Judah; 09-12-05 at 11:54 AM.

  9. #9
    nerd hyphy jonb's Avatar
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    Good answers. I get to ride 4 or 5 times a week when time and work permit. I don't commute so I wouldn't really call the bike or any of them beaters, unless we're speaking baout appearance. I'll try the pro max, combined with the polished fusions it should work out pretty well.

  10. #10
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    I'm no hub expert, but its worth noting that winter in SF is not the same as winter someplace where it snows. The issue is not as much the snow, as the salt on the roads...

  11. #11
    blacksheep the blemish
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    I've had no problems with my Suzue Promax SB rear hub other than things which were clearly my fault, ie bending an axle. Don't expect your bearings to be as unresistant in a few months as when you took it out of the box, but the mechanical advantage of turning the axle with your fingers vs. chain/rim turning it are a lot different.

  12. #12
    PBR ME ASAP Plow Boy's Avatar
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    [cough], Phil's.

  13. #13
    Yay!11! I has!!!1 ImOnCrank's Avatar
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    If you're gonna build up an NJS bike do it right man. Go with the NJS. However as a phil owner, if you're gonna be doing riding on the street rock the phils, they're the jam (as many on the forum would say)
    Bloodstains, speed kills, fast bikes, cheap thrills, French girls, fine wine...

  14. #14
    Senior Member brunning's Avatar
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    the promax njs is one sweet hub. really too bad suzue has muddied their name with that "basic" pos hub.

    also, at around $110 for the set, i think the suzue promax sb is the best hub for the money out there. i just wish they were fix/fix.

  15. #15
    Senior Member mrwhite's Avatar
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    Gonz said don't be a tight wad.

    Phil.

  16. #16
    Frankly, Mr. Shankly absntr's Avatar
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    I own Phil's. I was recently at Yojimbo's here in Chicago and I was looking at the possibility of getting tubulars: Suzue ProMax NJS loose ball would serve as the hubs. Now, I was curious about weight and thus held a Phil Wood SLR (weight reduction cut out version) and the ProMax. The ProMax was heavier.

    I then held a regular Phil Wood, single sided fixed and the ProMax - the ProMax was heavier. Now, I didn't weigh any of these and these were based on feel and switching hands but I was surprised since everyone seems to say that Phils are heavy. Maybe my mind was playing tricks - a proper weighed solution must be sought.

    I bought Phils for a few reasons:

    1) I wanted durability and I wanted to buy from a small company based locally that had good customer service. Brent at Phil Wood has posted on these forums before and I have heard nothing but good things about their customer service. I don't know how easy getting Suzue ProMax's serviced or replaced or whatever should something go wrong, would go, at least locally.

    2) Chicago's winters are harsh and I ride all year round through snow, salted streets and so on and so forth. I need a hub that will take that kind of abuse. Thus, Phils.

    3) I do love that the axle is hex/allen. It means one less tool for me to carry and tightening and adjusting Phils are a world apart from adjusting regular track nuts/axles.

    4) I can replace that axle for a quick release conversion kit - not for quick release but for locking skewers, which is unlikely for me, but I like the idea of having that option.

    I have no doubt that Suzue ProMax's are great hubs - I want a pair myself. But given the choice, Phil is the way to go. For me, at least.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
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    Suzue Pro Max vs Phil Wood vs Dura Ace?????

  18. #18
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesweaterkid
    Suzue Pro Max vs Phil Wood vs Dura Ace?????
    Phils on the Cross-Check, Suzue Pro on the Raleigh and DA on the GTB.


    And a set of IRO's on the fixed 1x1.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  19. #19
    Radio Bemba 00.0 EnLaCalle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImOnCrank
    If you're gonna build up an NJS bike do it right man. Go with the NJS. However as a phil owner, if you're gonna be doing riding on the street rock the phils, they're the jam (as many on the forum would say)
    The JAM!! It's spreading like wild forrest fire!

    Do we call this new vernacular Shantsese? Shants-bonics? Shantsish?

    I'm not sure. I do know, however, that apart from 'the jam', "ultra" should be used as a superlative prefix for EVERYTHING that is better than something else.

    You can read my "On Language" guest column this coming Sunday in the NYT magazine.

  20. #20
    roll'em high shants's Avatar
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    i really should be a total ******bag and bring back "k-rad." i'm convinced that it could happen.

  21. #21
    artistic tricyclist
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    may I suggest we swap ultra with uber, and reintroduce the use of such old school surf jargon such as tubular and radical

  22. #22
    Me talk pretty one day. eyefloater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shants
    i really should be a total ******bag and bring back "k-rad." i'm convinced that it could happen.
    mmm ... \<-rad

  23. #23
    Yay!11! I has!!!1 ImOnCrank's Avatar
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    dude the jam is totally boss
    Bloodstains, speed kills, fast bikes, cheap thrills, French girls, fine wine...

  24. #24
    nerd hyphy jonb's Avatar
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    could we then, perhaps, consider this thread to be 'the jam'?

  25. #25
    Yay!11! I has!!!1 ImOnCrank's Avatar
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    nah dude, this thread is boss too
    Bloodstains, speed kills, fast bikes, cheap thrills, French girls, fine wine...

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