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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 09-15-05, 08:59 PM   #1
mascher
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mavic rims and clydes

Building up a shiny new Kogswell hub for the street. 225 pound rider plus 5 pounds of clothes and a shoulder bag with lock, lunch or libations.

My plan was to pay full retail and go local just so I learn that quality wheels mean dropping the dough. Quickly found out that basically nobody in Montreal stocks anything but Mavic rims.

I searched the threads and found lots of people saying Open Pro, Deep V, but little on the riders riding them; the average weight of this board seems to be on the welter side, so what are the 200+ pounders riding?

I'm ruling out Open Pros as they appear to be lighter racing rims.

Ma 3 - 35$ and get lots of good reviews online from tourers and commuters, including heavy loaded tourers and clyde riders. The shop was like, well, it's a $35 rim, and you should spend more money, and I was like, how is the cxp33 better? Well, it's more expensive, so it must be better! Grumble, etc I want to believe these are good, but I don't personally know any road riders or fixxers. I'm trying to learn to buy bike stuff that I won't break, and I'm having a hard time with the $200 just for spokes, rim and labour for a single wheel part of learning this.

cxp33 - $90, and not in stock in silver. Everyone will attest that these are bombproof, but how about for the heavier rider? I mean, 90 bucks for an off the rack rim? Aero? My body's not aero, and I'm running 53x20 in the city, not doing time trials.

cxp22 - not in stock, around $40. I'm already riding them, seem ok, but I didn't have much of a chance to have an idea of how the rims themselves hold up, as I stripped my hub. I personally think they're the best choise, but that might be the forty bucks talking. And that my rims will match.

T719 - $80 touring rim; the mechanic specifically recommended this rim to me, but the mavic site starts tire recommendations at 28-32, and I'm running 25s and possibly 23s in the future. Almost 600 grams, heavier than my mtb rims.

Nobody seems to have Velocity rims here (haven't looked everywhere, but there's a mavic/sun stranglehold it seems); most shops only stock the crummiest Alex rims, though the oem Alexs have held up well on my xc mtb. Sun road rims may be available somewhere; the cr-18 may be findable, but looks too wide for 25s?

anyway, any recommendations, testimonials, caveats and advice are more than welcome. Thanks.
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Old 09-15-05, 09:02 PM   #2
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Open Pros should be the last Mavic rims you rule out. They're plenty strong.
a 32/36 3-cross build on Ultegra hubs is a standard training set for many a road cyclist. There are also many MB-ers who like OPs for their 29-ers.


Then again, I only weigh 160. (stupid 1 month off riding weight loss. grrrrr)
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Old 09-15-05, 09:10 PM   #3
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Get the MA3s. More expensive isn't necessarily stronger. I'm using a set as my touring/cyclocross wheelset and I have some rare anodized MA3s on my Steamroller. If you can, go with a 36 hole 3 cross wheel setup with DT Swiss double butted spokes (2/1.8/2). I weigh 185 and haven't had any problems with them after 5 years of use.
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Old 09-15-05, 09:59 PM   #4
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I have Mavic CXP33's with 36 spoke count heavy duty SS spokes on Ultegra hubs. (Touch wood) haven't sent them out of true yet - love them. I have Continental Gatorskin Pro's on them and I won't talk about the F word (and no - not the one that rhymes with buck - the other one that sometimes causes the use of the one that rhymes with buck) but I ain't got one yet....... BTW I'm 264lbs 6'4".
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Old 09-15-05, 11:35 PM   #5
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Can any clydes comment on the Sun CR-18? I am a firm believer in the durability of this rim, but I also weigh about 140, so I'm not dealing with the same sorts of stress levels as someone 85 pounds heavier than me.
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Old 09-16-05, 12:40 AM   #6
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I weigh anywhere from 165-185 and I will definitely not stand behind the 22's. I dented the ***** outta those in the three horrible months i spent on them. I'm a big fan of the deep v's though. they just feel solid
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Old 09-16-05, 06:12 AM   #7
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Tipping the scales at about 225lbs, plus the typical backpack of daily goods. My daily ride consists of country roads that make the worst NY street look newly paved.

I'm run the following in my fleet

-36h CXP33 on Phil KISS-Off hubs
-32h Open Pro (old blues) on High Flange DA
-32h CXP 22 on budget Shimano (singlespeeder)
-32h MA2 on Suzue Pros

All of them have been bomb-proof. The only set that's required even minor tweaking is the 22's, probably cause they were machine built.

I also run a set of Sun CR-18's (26") on my XO3 and have been happy with thier performance.
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Old 09-16-05, 08:37 AM   #8
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I'm a pretty heavy clyde and I run CR-18's 32 holes and find they hold up great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugazi Dave
Can any clydes comment on the Sun CR-18? I am a firm believer in the durability of this rim, but I also weigh about 140, so I'm not dealing with the same sorts of stress levels as someone 85 pounds heavier than me.
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Old 09-16-05, 09:11 AM   #9
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I just weighed in at 217 and these are my fixie wheels:
DA low flange 36 3x'd to MA3 (no probs whatsoever, I expect these to last many years)
Phil high 32 3x'd to DeepV (probably the same strength as above wheel)
suzue jr 36 x'd to MA3 (actually, no problems in 3 hard years of messenger and cargo bike work)

I think that:
spoke count has more impact on wheel strength than the label does (within the realm of quality rims, at least);
A properly built and tensioned wheel made from mid range parts will easily outlast a poorly built wheel made from the top of the line parts.
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Old 09-16-05, 11:25 AM   #10
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I have cpx 33 rims with CK hubs (36 hole, 3 x), OPen Pro's with Ultegra (32, 3x) and for fixed a Suzue promax with a Velocity Aerohead (36, 3x). Never had problems wuth any and I weigh about 215 with a bag
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Old 09-16-05, 11:59 AM   #11
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salsa del gato's are completely bomb proof, awesome rims. a lot of the people use them on cross and touring bikes and 29"ers as well. i've heard repeatedly that ma3's are super strong, as well as alex adventurer's... those the alex's are on the heavy side.
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Old 09-16-05, 12:31 PM   #12
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I think it comes down to the quality of the build. I wiegh around 200# and I ride around 130 miles a week in the city-and the roads around here suck. I ride some mid range lightweight (420g each) sun rims with single eyelets (the model escapes me now) 32 spoke, 3 cross with no problems at all. I haven't had to true them once since I built them in the spring. I've also had no problems with some cheap Alex aero section rims which I beat the crap out of on my cross bike riding MTB trails. Machine built wheels, or wheels built hastily by someone who doesn't know or care about what they are doing on the other hand, are as good as toast under me. Won't last a month, unless I retension them myself. The cost of the rim doesn't mean anything, you are mostly paying for prestige, and maybe some annodizing or bogus brake surface machining. The base material is the same, and often the mid priced rims are stronger (and slightly heavier). No direct experience with MA-3's, but tons of guys your size ride them.
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Old 09-16-05, 04:16 PM   #13
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I finally went with MA3s, based on some posts from the road forums, your impressions, and the whole touring thing. The guy at the shop was not impressed; didn't care that the A719 is for 28s min; didn't care that Open Pros supposedly have a 100kg max; and when I asked about a CXP30 on the wall (that was indistinguishable eyeballed from the CXP33 beside it) he was like, oh, that's for racing, you don't want that. Too bad! $35 rims can be good!

Knows how to build a wheel though; 3x ss 14g DT spokes will be the order of the day.

I didn't mention that this will be on a bike that I don't want to have to care about riding in the winter and locking up; dunno about y'all in like Williamsburg, but I'm not coming out of the Cheval Blanc and finding out my 90$ rim is toast because someone tried to steal it, or the sidewalk snowplower was feeling in touch with his anger.

Thanks for your input!
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Old 09-16-05, 04:19 PM   #14
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CXP30's?
where?
for $35?

gimme! I call dibs

wait? how many holes?

PS> where did you read that OP's have a 100kg max? Just curious. For some reason I don't believe this.
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Old 09-16-05, 05:42 PM   #15
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cxp30s didn't have a price tag, and were in a bag as a pair. Not $30 though, they were in the "not from this year" section. PM if you'd like me to find out details, or I can give you the number of the shop.

I don't remember where I thought I read the thing about the OPs; I knew that I if I was going to say something like that I should be prepared to bust out links. Possibly something I read someone else saying Mavic said etc.
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Old 09-16-05, 05:45 PM   #16
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I'm 227 lbs. I was a little heavier when I started riding on the 32H 3x Mavic CXP22s that came on my Bianchi Axis. After one truing, they've held up well (600 miles).

I just put a set of 32H 3x Open Pros/Ultegra hubs on my Le Champion. After an initial tensioning/truing, they have held up perfectly, despite some bumps/holes sharp enough to ring my Incredibell.

I got the Open Pros/Ultegra wheels for a great price so I grabbed them. I was originally going to buy the CXP33s but got the Open Pros for less.....

Good riding,
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Old 09-16-05, 06:17 PM   #17
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I was riding open pros when I weighed 240, on some pretty rough roads. No dents at all, one wheel is ever so slightly out of true, but other than that they're fine.
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Old 09-16-05, 09:19 PM   #18
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If you've decided on Mavic rims, the other choice is finish. The silver, bare aluminium rims are cheaper because they aren't heat treated or anodized. They're softer as a result. In practical terms you have to be more careful when building them up, as it's pretty easy to end up with a couple of flat spots if you don't keep track of the spoke tension. The benefit is that they're more forgiving if they go out due to riding.
The heat treated ones have a hard surface that makes them very rigid. Pretty easy to lace up and they tend to stay trued. They will crack instead of bend if you smack them around hard enough. I killed a GL330 tubular and an Open 4CD, as in two places on the GL, and one place on the Open4, so I know it's possible.
I've used Mavic's for over 20 years and loved them. I used MA2's on my messenger bike, and the hub shell cracked, but the rims never died. Using MA3CD's 32 hole on my road bike.
Aero rims tend to be stiffer because they are triangular in cross section, which is very stable. If you're worried about the rims lasting, it might be worth the weight penalty, if any, for the peace of mind.
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Old 09-16-05, 10:02 PM   #19
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I've been riding a rear 32H CR-18 since December. I was 300lbs when I started on it, and I would carry up to 50lbs of books and groceries on my back. Down to 275lbs today, and the wheel is still as true as the first time I spun it around. I have been running a 700x28 tire on it, but I plan to take that down to a 25, there will be no problem with that fit.

Can't say these were all do to weight, but I have broken many parts without bouncing them off of the road or cars, etc, including: Chainrings + Crankset, Casette Cogs, Handlebars, Hollow Axle, Touring pedals
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Old 09-16-05, 10:48 PM   #20
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c'mon, it's not *that* hard to find places in Montreal ... where were you looking? I'm just judging by the 6 or 7 fixies that ride by me every day with deep V's ... or are they all NYC imports? personally, as a clyde myself, i'm going for a pair of open pros once my current cheapie set has gone awry. from road bike experience, they're next to perfect.
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Old 09-17-05, 01:42 PM   #21
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whoa, I sure don't see that many (and trust me, I keep my eyes peeled, and work downtown, so I see the couriers). There has been a thousandfold influx in the last few months though.

Anyway, keeping the bling down - my bike attracts enough attention as it is (being 64cm and pink), and worst case scenario, I destroy an ma3 and learn for real that I just have to pay a hundred bucks for a rim that will last.

Most of my wheel destruction has come from jumping, hopping and bad landings anyway, and I don't know how to bunnyhop on a fix - yet.
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Old 09-17-05, 06:27 PM   #22
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yeah, i work downtown too ... and every morning coming in on the 535, there's a bunch that are always between desjardins and pvm. i had the same reaction when i first saw the pack: 'whoa.' it's the same dudes all the time and i have a feeling they do a morning tour de rene levesque.

i'm considering putting a mavic touring set on my SS b/c i find for mtl streets, cornering is a little squirrely with skinnier wheels, plus, it's not bad having an almost bombproof set on what with all the construction going on.
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Old 09-17-05, 06:51 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor29
Get the MA3s. More expensive isn't necessarily stronger. I'm using a set as my touring/cyclocross wheelset and I have some rare anodized MA3s on my Steamroller. If you can, go with a 36 hole 3 cross wheel setup with DT Swiss double butted spokes (2/1.8/2). I weigh 185 and haven't had any problems with them after 5 years of use.
thats one of the worst quality rim out there. tends towrads cracking and it is not all that sturdy.
all of my velocity rims have far out preformed the MA3
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Old 09-17-05, 07:00 PM   #24
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Open Pros supported me just fine at 232#. At 205# they are still just fine. I wouldn't go below 32 spokes.
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