unimpressed, like the graphics/decals but not much else
seems like the guy is really into "different" stuff, which--uhh, if there's no point to it, is lame
innovation is cool, but doing weird ***** for no reason is wack
seat binder=umm, wtf? why? if this were an ideal place for the binder, how come no one else has "figured it out". looks inelegant the way the binder sits surrounded by the spiderweb lug
those lugs=yuck, can someone explain how there is ANY point to these
integrated headsets=double yuck, especially on a steel lugged frame
wishbone seatstay made worse=umm, this guy finds a way to make wishbone stays even worse, another pointless mod for no reason
those lugs=ugh again
sorry, not into the "look at me, I'm different" crowd--maybe he should name his company "Burning Man bike frames"--he'd be an instant hit with the attention seekers... "Wow man, that's like--totally far out the way you have basically reinvented everything in a different, yet WORSE, way--I'll take two."
ok, enough of your "Punk is dumb blah blah blah" explanation. With an actual reason, WHY are lugs bad, WHY are integrated headsets bad, WHY is his seat collar bad, WHY is the wish bone bad? Actual reasons please, like "laterral stresses will twist brazes causing failure" something like that, something other than "It looks weird so it must be bad!"
oh and for ladders? they used to be all wood, now we have fiberglass with aluminum rungs. cars used to not have seatbelts, now we have five point harnesses. bridges used to be crude at best, now there are BEAUTIFUL bridges everywhere that withstand most forces of nature. man I'm glad none of the people who design those things ever got to creative...
and your logic behind your slam is....? (other than being a stick in the mud) that's fine that you don't like it, but can you make any points other than, "It looks different, so I don't like it!"?
You really kinda have to ignore ziggurat. he came on this forum a little less than a year ago and announced that he had just bought his first road bike. Now he's buying a Serotta and he feels the need to put down other frame builders to rationalize his own purchase.
If he knew anything about the bike business, he would know that Andy Newlands, Strawberry Cycles, has been building frames with his own unigue signature design features for close to thirty years and is one of the most respected frame builders in the USA. He does not do what he does to be different; he is a trend setter in frame building and design and an importer of equipment and supplies to the frame building industry.
im with zig... and he has a right to this opinion.. cause everything he is slamming has been done for style.. and what hes saying is.. "the style is wack".. and hes totally right.. ornate lugs remind me of those weird rings goth dudes wear on every finger.. the dudes who think they are anton levay...
and wishbonne stays are just ugly...and seem to serve not much purpose..
if he was slamming practicality.. itd be one thing.. but he's dissing the style choices...and stylistically.. that integrated headset/lugged tubes in the center thing is just all wrong.. that bike is just trying too hard..
so Dustin to answer your why why why... its because its all unessecery and so if its not there for a reason.. it must be there because it looks good... and it fails at that too...
i give up... you just dont listen... if you really think thats what we are saying, great... enjoy your strawberry
no, I listen, you two just don't provide facts as to why this is a bad frame. I'm asking about whether or not there are any issues with the bike, like the brazes fail, the tubing is weak, something like that. But, the only reasons to not buy this bike that you are providing are, "It's different," "It's unnecesary," "It's ugly." I don't care about your tastes in the bike, I don't care what anyone things about it's lugs, it's seat post binder (by the way, not all the frames come that way, it's just an option), it's rear wishbone. What I do care about is how the entire frame as a whole holds up.
I'm just curious where you guys are even seeing all these pictures of the bikes...I looked on the "factory tour" photo album and the only bikes I saw there had standard, i.e. not integrated, headsets and lugs that seemed to be pretty modest, nothing insanely ornate.
Anyway, those bikes looked just fine (to me). They're not really my cup of tea because I'm not a lug guy (witness the (Welded) Steel Shoot-Out thread), but that's just a style thing.
Technically, the rear wishbone design is potentially weaker than the standard two seat stays + a bridge design (as triangles generally make a structure more rigid), but if the builder designed it properly, it shouldn't be an issue. I don't see anything with the materials that would make the bike weaker. If you like it, dustin, just buy one.
As for style issues - I, for one, like the way GT's triple triangle looks. Does that make me a weirdo? Maybe. It might have some technical advantages (additional rigidity in the seat stays), but I primarily like it because it's *different* and catches my eye in a way that other frames don't (which is why I'm pursuing this one on eBay). To each, his/her own.