Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-19-05, 10:39 AM   #1
11.4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Anyone found a source for 110 axle sets to convert 120 rear Dura Ace hubs to 110? (For those interested, the hub shells are the same. The cones and lock nuts are thinner on the 110 than on the 120 hubs (that's how you carve out 10 mm of spacing). The big difference is that both axles (front and rear) have two flatted surfaces, and many 110-spaced keirin frames have fork and stay ends with slots that are narrower than the standard track dimensions.) I have a couple pairs of 110 hubs, but I'd like to convert a couple hubs that are already built up.

And for the heck of it, does anyone know the history of where 110 came from and how 110 and 120 spacings and hardware coexist on a keirin track today? Thanks!
11.4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-05, 12:48 PM   #2
Aeroplane
jack of one or two trades
 
Aeroplane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Suburbia, CT
Bikes: Old-ass gearie hardtail MTB, fix-converted Centurion LeMans commuter, SS hardtail monster MTB
Posts: 5,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No idea as far as the history... But if you're looking for 110mm axles and stuff, BMX rear hubs use that spacing. Maybe there's some cross-compatibility there?
Aeroplane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-05, 12:53 PM   #3
baxtefer
Cornucopia of Awesomeness
 
baxtefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: not where i used to be
Bikes:
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
110mm was the pre-120mm track standard (in the 50/60's I think)


why not just reuse the existing axle and file the flats yourself?
baxtefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-05, 07:04 PM   #4
11.4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cutting down the axles and filing the flats leaves you with bare metal that gets rusty. I tried it once and the axles don't have any weather or perspiration resistance at that point. Ugly. Given what these hubs are running for, I'd rather find the right axle sets.

I knew they were one of several competing track standards many many years ago, but in Japan there are still contemporary frames being made in both dimensions. As far as I can tell, no hubs, however (at least not from Suzue or Shimano on their Japanese web sites). Japanese frame builders will convert from 110 to 120 for a nominal sum, but I have a decent stash of 110 equipment and just want to get the most out of it. Be assured you can pull out the axle set from a 110 hub and insert a standard 7600 axle set for 120 mm and you end up with a perfectly standard 120 hub. Since NJS is continuing to certify 110 equipment and frames are still being made with this spacing, my question is basically ... huh? Ceya? Tomity?
11.4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-05, 07:13 PM   #5
dolface
Iguana Subsystem
 
dolface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: san francisco
Bikes:
Posts: 4,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
shimano makes hubs in both dimensions, takizawa-web.com has them, and reload carries them on occasion, but you'll pay a couple of days wages for a set.

flatted axles show up on ebay occasionally, but they're rare.

your best bet might be to contact tomity (he posts here) and go through ceya if you have language difficulties.

as for how they coexist, i don't know anything about 110 vs 120, but what i've heard is that some racers like the flatted axles and narrower trackends because it keeps the axles from spinning.

i don't think i will ever produce enough torque to make an axle spin, but i'm also not a keirin racer.
dolface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-05, 08:32 PM   #6
sashae
ganbatte!
 
sashae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: nyc
Bikes: '06 Vanilla touring, '09 Vanilla cx, Zanconato cx, Moots Psychlo-X RSL prototype, Nagasawa track, Kalavinka track, Black Cat 29er, Cannondale Rize 2 26er, Serotta CRL Legend
Posts: 1,648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, I need to hunt down a 110mm flatted axle as well... I've got a couple of sets of hubs that'd work, but no appropriate axles. Just picked up a set of Sunshine NJS hubs which I'm planning on running, but i'd rather not file down the axle..
sashae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-05, 10:40 PM   #7
Ceya
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 3,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
wow just ordered some 10mm axles. they are for the old and still used 10mm track ends 0,5 is shaved off eash side to be 9 mm.

110 hubs are for the spacing from one track end to the other. i have personally fitted 120 hubs on a 110 setup. some frames are 115 to make room for the tensioners.

you have to put a 120 hubs with no spacers then add some over a period of a week beause metal has memory .

for all you metal heads or hey that freaking wrong Ceya. this is how i got the others on and plus i know alittle something about steel.

S/F<
CEYA!

going to sleep..

Last edited by Ceya; 10-19-05 at 10:47 PM.
Ceya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-05, 11:40 PM   #8
11.4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've tried to communicate with Takizawa but never get a reply. Tomity or Ceya, can you help? I'd buy other items as well so it'd be a material order.

Yes, most 110 stay-ends I've got around are 113-114 mm to give space for chain tugs; I find the same thing on a Nagasawa and other 120 mm spaced frames. The issue isn't so much getting the rear end spread, but with widening the slot front and rear to accommodate a 120 mm axle. I've used a drawfile to do this on one frame, but it's fairly slow and obnoxious work.
11.4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-05, 06:15 AM   #9
sashae
ganbatte!
 
sashae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: nyc
Bikes: '06 Vanilla touring, '09 Vanilla cx, Zanconato cx, Moots Psychlo-X RSL prototype, Nagasawa track, Kalavinka track, Black Cat 29er, Cannondale Rize 2 26er, Serotta CRL Legend
Posts: 1,648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah I'm sweating less the dropout-to-dropout spacing, and more the vertical spacing within the dropout itself. I'd really rather not file anything down if I can find the proper axles...
sashae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-05, 07:40 AM   #10
same time
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington DC
Bikes:
Posts: 962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have a pair of Suzue Promax hubs, and the front axle is flatted the way you describe. I always wondered why, and I still wonder why. I mean, you're not going to apply torque to the front wheel, right?

It's annoying because when you tighten the axle nuts, the wheel slips around and can wind up off-center in the fork.

This doesn't really help you, does it? Unless that axle happens to fit in a shimano rear hub...
same time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-05, 07:48 AM   #11
Ceya
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 3,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
slotted axles with the idea if ease of putting on with destroying the threads on the axle. it also easier to keep the axle stationary when tightening the wheel down. my observation .

S/F<
CEYA!
Ceya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-05, 07:54 AM   #12
sashae
ganbatte!
 
sashae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: nyc
Bikes: '06 Vanilla touring, '09 Vanilla cx, Zanconato cx, Moots Psychlo-X RSL prototype, Nagasawa track, Kalavinka track, Black Cat 29er, Cannondale Rize 2 26er, Serotta CRL Legend
Posts: 1,648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by same time
I have a pair of Suzue Promax hubs, and the front axle is flatted the way you describe. I always wondered why, and I still wonder why. I mean, you're not going to apply torque to the front wheel, right?

It's annoying because when you tighten the axle nuts, the wheel slips around and can wind up off-center in the fork.

This doesn't really help you, does it? Unless that axle happens to fit in a shimano rear hub...
Yeah, the dropouts on mine are so narrow that they wouldn't rotate in place... so less irritating Seems like this is something i'm going to have to go to the source for. SIGH.
sashae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-05, 07:58 AM   #13
11.4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Axles with flats make for easier track nut tightening since the axle doesn't just spin on you. But the different slot width does more than that. Partly there's an historical element to it, but today it makes it easy to differentiate 110 and 120 equipment so there's no confusion at the track.

It makes me wonder how much NJS pays attention to customized parts. I pulled apart a Nagasawa ridden by Nakano many years ago. It had a titanium bottom bracket axle and front hub axle, the headset races and cups had been machined down, and the part of the stem that inserts into the fork steer had been cut down. I've watched bike inspections at keirin tracks and there just isn't that much attention paid to the detail -- they don't dismantle the bikes when they apply the sticker. I've seen the same kind of stuff on a couple newer used keirin bikes as well. Plenty of small trick components if you keep your eyes out for them.
11.4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-05, 08:24 AM   #14
sashae
ganbatte!
 
sashae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: nyc
Bikes: '06 Vanilla touring, '09 Vanilla cx, Zanconato cx, Moots Psychlo-X RSL prototype, Nagasawa track, Kalavinka track, Black Cat 29er, Cannondale Rize 2 26er, Serotta CRL Legend
Posts: 1,648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sounds like Nascar
sashae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-05, 08:25 AM   #15
Ceya
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 3,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
was the bike ridden by Nakano his Keirin bike or one he raced on the international circut. they don't need to take the bikes apart, you just looking for everthing to be correct. NJS markings, specs are correct, etc.

NASCAR follows similar idea but they don't strip the cars down unless something comes up during a normal inspection that catches somebody's eye. Remember the riders put there bikes together or unless a frame builder does it before hand but most put there own together.

S/F,
CEYA!
Ceya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-05, 08:27 PM   #16
moss
Member
 
moss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i have a suzue promax for general use, just took out the 2 little washers on each side and it came to 110 spacing- they use the same type of axle parts on all the hubs i guess. i just shaved the axles. but i'm not going for the details. good luck.
moss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:49 PM.