Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-14-05, 07:48 PM   #1
habitus
consistent inconsistency
Thread Starter
 
habitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: seattle
Bikes:
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
alright, everyone, i solicit your assistance and advice for this persistant problem in the BB/crank area. already searched in mechanics and everything that's been suggested, well, i've done. i'm sure lots of you have had creaking problems in the past so share your wisdom. i sure had, and wouldn't be posting about it unless i hadn't tried pretty much everything i could think of.

here's the deal:
creak occurs when when i'm pulling on the pedals going uphill and resisting the pedals going downhill and slowing down. i know it's not my saddle/seatpost. it's been that way for a few months. i'm using miche track cranks and started out with the matching BB. here's a list of my attempted remedies, none of which actually stopped the sound:

-cleaned and regreased chainring bolts, crank bolts, and pedal bolts, and all accompanying threads several times.
-cleaned BB cup threads and BB shell threads.
-switched from grease to teflon tape to loctite for cups/shell interface.
-swtiched pedals (to confirm pedals weren't the culprit)
-switched BBs, from miche to phil wood. no avail.
-tested loctite and teflon tape with phill bb. again, no avail.
-had the BB shell ******** faced (done by LBS)! creak still there!
-switched BACK to miche BB with grease. again, no avail.

the damn creak is still there. i give up. that's the extent of my knowledge about these kinds of creaks.

please help. i can only repay you in hugs.

oh, and please keep my thread here. i don't like nobody else.
__________________
every scar has a story
habitus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 08:27 PM   #2
trackandtrials
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SF
Bikes:
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Are the tapers on the crankarms in good shape?
trackandtrials is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 08:36 PM   #3
habitus
consistent inconsistency
Thread Starter
 
habitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: seattle
Bikes:
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackandtrials
Are the tapers on the crankarms in good shape?
good question. i'm not sure. i haven't noticed anything unusual.

the cranks are about 8 months old and were paired with their matching BB until i switched to the phil BB a week ago.

but this (the crank taper) is one aspect i haven't explored. should i grease the spindle to see if that makes a difference? never done that before. kinky.
__________________
every scar has a story
habitus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 09:34 PM   #4
habitus
consistent inconsistency
Thread Starter
 
habitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: seattle
Bikes:
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ok, just reading the barnett's chapter on taper fit cranks and they warn that marks on that extend the entire length of the flat section of the spindle indicate that the crank is not sitting properly, possibly causing a creaking noise. because the sound has been present with both BBs, it has to be the crank. i'll be checking this out tomorrow morning. if it's the case, i probably won't be buying miche cranks again.

should probably invest in a torque wrench, as well.
__________________
every scar has a story
habitus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 09:46 PM   #5
pitboss
cxmagazine dot com
 
pitboss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: WI
Bikes: Titus road, Fort CX
Posts: 8,269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yo Hab
I was recently cured of said "creak" downthere by having the BB shell tapped. I was running an Italian Shimano BB/Suntour Superbe set-up and it started creaking like a Hitchcock doorway. The frame was taken to the LBS and they tapped the shell - ta da! Installed a new Miche BB and cranks and the sound is totally absent.

So re-tapping the shell might be a good thing - check with the LBS you trust most. And then check back in here!
pitboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 09:52 PM   #6
habitus
consistent inconsistency
Thread Starter
 
habitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: seattle
Bikes:
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
hey josh, thanks for the input. tapping and facing the shell worked wonders for the creak on my other bike, but i had my LBS do that to the raleigh just a few days ago and it didn't alleviate anything!

sucks. anyway, i'm banking on it being the cranks not sitting properly. i'll check back in tomorrow when i take some things apart.

chris
__________________
every scar has a story
habitus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 10:16 PM   #7
rithem
Foward Leaning Attitude
 
rithem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: RHODE-MF-ISLAND
Bikes:
Posts: 851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by [165]
Yo Hab
I was recently cured of said "creak" downthere by having the BB shell tapped. I was running an Italian Shimano BB/Suntour Superbe set-up and it started creaking like a Hitchcock doorway. The frame was taken to the LBS and they tapped the shell - ta da! Installed a new Miche BB and cranks and the sound is totally absent.

So re-tapping the shell might be a good thing - check with the LBS you trust most. And then check back in here!
just a thought ... Suntour Superbe Pro have a taper like ISO not JIS like Shim, I run the Miche on mine works mint, It came orig. used on a frame with a Shim BB. John at Business confirmed this, thats how I ended up with my Miche in the first place, may a case of two stones with one bird for you?
rithem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 10:17 PM   #8
pitboss
cxmagazine dot com
 
pitboss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: WI
Bikes: Titus road, Fort CX
Posts: 8,269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
oops - just saw that. Tylenol 3, post-extraction, may not be the best companion for online bike help right now.

Perhaps the Miche crankarm/spindle interface has been altered by the use of the Phil Wood BB? I know that even the slightest gap can cause problems. I don't have any info on how the two (Miche/Phil) pair up.
pitboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 10:21 PM   #9
BostonFixed
Banned.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 4,418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your frame could be cracked/broken/etc.
BostonFixed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 10:24 PM   #10
baxtefer
Cornucopia of Awesomeness
 
baxtefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: not where i used to be
Bikes:
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
if it's not your seatpost, it could be your bars.
baxtefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 10:25 PM   #11
habitus
consistent inconsistency
Thread Starter
 
habitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: seattle
Bikes:
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonFixed
Your frame could be cracked/broken/etc.
interesting hypothesis. would be nice of you to explore that dangling "et cetera."

anyway, what makes you think a creak like that could indicate a cracked frame? wouldn't it get worse over time?

baxtefer: thanks, but it's not the bars, either. have switched them a couple times. it's definitely happening during the rotation of the cranks.
__________________
every scar has a story
habitus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 10:31 PM   #12
griffin_
griffin_
 
griffin_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: phila
Bikes: raliegh "too lazy to make my own" rush hour
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what kind of bike is it?
not that it makes much of a difference
griffin_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 10:31 PM   #13
pitboss
cxmagazine dot com
 
pitboss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: WI
Bikes: Titus road, Fort CX
Posts: 8,269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rithem
just a thought ... Suntour Superbe Pro have a taper like ISO not JIS like Shim, I run the Miche on mine works mint, It came orig. used on a frame with a Shim BB. John at Business confirmed this, thats how I ended up with my Miche in the first place, may a case of two stones with one bird for you?
Hey Rithem
I know the taper differences, but that wasn't the problem. Oddly enough, the matching was never problematic for me - and no damage done either. The problem was the BB Shell in this case.
good call though

Last edited by pitboss; 11-14-05 at 10:39 PM.
pitboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-05, 10:37 PM   #14
habitus
consistent inconsistency
Thread Starter
 
habitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: seattle
Bikes:
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin_
what kind of bike is it?
not that it makes much of a difference
no, it matters sometimes. it's a '76 raleigh track. like, the BB shell (part of the frame) definitely needed to be faced/tapped...but it just didn't alleviate the creaking problem. not sure about the whole frame cracking hypothesis though.
__________________
every scar has a story
habitus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-05, 02:08 AM   #15
the mighty bean
Senior Member
 
the mighty bean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Bikes:
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Make sure also that the sound doesn't come from loose spokes. I thought my creaking was coming from bb/cranks too, it took me a week to realize about it as the wheels where build just a month ago.
the mighty bean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-05, 04:07 AM   #16
fixedpip
asleep at the wheel
 
fixedpip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicago
Bikes: Custom Richie Ditta Track Bike, Eddie Merckx Corsa, Marioni Custom Pista, Dolan Cyclocross
Posts: 974
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think you've got to keep doing what you're doing and eliminating components.

That said, I have a Raleigh 73 Professional track frame which was creaking after a friend had stacked it. I still rode it but there was this little creak that drove me nuts. Happened mainly in the saddle, but sometimes out of it.

It turned out as well having an obviously dented top tube (which is why I'm a firm believer in top tube protectors now), but the seat tube/top tube lug had cracked also. The cracked lug was not noticeable to my untrained eye but my framebuilder friend discovered it.

Got the frame repaired eventually and it no longer creaks. But just wanted to let you know the creak really didn't seem to get worse over time, it just infuriated me.

However, I would think it has to be something other than that. Or maybe I should say, I hope its something other than that.

Let us know what your crank inspection turns up, based on what you said I would finger the crank/bb interface as the most likely suspect still standing. Damage cranks really creak horribly. But generally you can reseat them enough so the creak should go away, which should tell you its the crank.
fixedpip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-05, 07:45 AM   #17
eyefloater
Me talk pretty one day.
 
eyefloater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Bikes:
Posts: 2,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Someone else mentioned this one, but ya - check your seatpost / seat tube for dirt or other gunge. Sound travels around a bike in funny ways and it can be hard to diagnose the source sometimes. Let us know what the cause was when you finally get it, please.

- eyefloater
eyefloater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-05, 07:45 AM   #18
Aeroplane
jack of one or two trades
 
Aeroplane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Suburbia, CT
Bikes: Old-ass gearie hardtail MTB, fix-converted Centurion LeMans commuter, SS hardtail monster MTB
Posts: 5,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Did you grease your BB spindles when installing the cranks? Jobst Brant has a rant about it here. Maybe there is a little bit of play in the crank/spindle interface? Just a thought.
Aeroplane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-05, 12:45 PM   #19
habitus
consistent inconsistency
Thread Starter
 
habitus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: seattle
Bikes:
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ok, i suspect that most of you had trouble sleeping last night awaiting my update this morning. it's ok, it's ok: you'll sleep well tonight. here's why:

first thing i do is remove the cranks to assess the "sitting" position of the cranks on the spindle. looks good: about 3mm of non-markedness on the flat part of the spindle. crank, therefore, is not bottoming out. check out the crank tapers--they look good, too.

taking advice from several people in this thread, i grease the spindle and reset the cranks, tightening the bolts to what i think is sufficient (foreshawing). something changes: because i can push the cranks farther up the spindle with the grease, the inside of the drive-side crank starts to rub against the chainstay (one of the disadvantages of using 135bcd instead of 144bcd). fortunately i have an adjustable BB, so i remove everything and shift the BB about a mm to the non-drive side.

ok, reinstall cranks with the grease, tighten like a mofo, and head out for a spin around the block. i notice that the creak doesn't occur as often as before, but it's still there. good news, though. figure i need to tighten the cranks a little more. after this first spin, surprisingly, i'm able to tighten the cranks even more with the chain and wheel acting as resistance (usually i just use the crank as resistance to the wrench). quickly back outside around the block, pedaling smoothly, i hear...

nothing. sweet silence! no creaks.

so the grease definitely helped, but i also learned something else: i'm weak. that's why i need a torque wrench. i don't know what 60 ft-lbs or something like that feels like, but i know that what i think is "tight" probably isn't "tight" to others.

mmmkay.

to my credit, though, after my LBS tapped and faced the shell they installed the cranks (tightly, i assume, but no grease), and the creak persisted. maybe we're all weak?

so, again, it's definitely the grease. for those of you who "grease the spindle," do you notice you have to retighten the crank bolts more often? am i gonna die?

finally, many thanks to those who have shared knowledge here. you're the best!

come get your hugs!
__________________
every scar has a story
habitus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:15 PM.