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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 11-20-05, 03:47 PM   #1
habitus
consistent inconsistency
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damaged cranks?

poop.

continuation of this thread in which i told the saga of the mysterious creaking that everyone's had at some point(s). well, i'm starting a new chapter.

take a look here. after greasing the spindle and tightening the cranks as much as i could, the creak temporarily stopped. however, it came back on a longer ride, and now it's back in full force. i still think the spindle/crank interface, in some way, is the culprit, and i'm wondering if what's going on in these pictures would cause the creaking. see the pitting in the two pictures? i don't see pitting like that on the other cranks i have. could've been caused by torquing too much?

damaged, right? (and aren't my fingers quite petite?)


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Old 11-20-05, 04:04 PM   #2
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wow, that looks pretty damned bottomed out.
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Old 11-20-05, 04:06 PM   #3
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looks to me like your cranks and bb spindle have incompatable tapers
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Old 11-20-05, 04:11 PM   #4
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consistent inconsistency
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Originally Posted by dolface
looks to me like your cranks and bb spindle have incompatable tapers
i don't see how as i used miche cranks and bb (and swtiched to phil wood ISO tapered BB for a weekend). so i'm sure they were compatible.

i noticed when i greased the spindle i could sit the cranks farther in on the spindle. could that have caused it?
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Old 11-20-05, 04:29 PM   #5
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The grease/no grease question is bugging the hell out of me. My shimano 600 cranks started creeping up the spindle after I greased spindle during a rebuild last spring. Not just when I torqued the bolts, but riding as well (!?) Granted, they are very old cranks with a lot of miles, but they seemed to move farther/faster after I applied the grease.

They don't creak and there's no free play on the crank/spindle connection. The holes look good and square with no evident rounding etc. But still and all, they are pretty much all the way up the spindle, and that ain't right.

Jobst Brandt and others say grease on the spindle is no problem. Two local wrenches who I trust say absolutely no grease. What to do? I think I've been greasing 'em for years, and maybe that caused the problem?
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Old 11-20-05, 04:36 PM   #6
habitus
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Originally Posted by lemurhouse
The grease/no grease question is bugging the hell out of me. My shimano 600 cranks started creeping up the spindle after I greased spindle during a rebuild last spring. Not just when I torqued the bolts, but riding as well (!?) Granted, they are very old cranks with a lot of miles, but they seemed to move farther/faster after I applied the grease.

They don't creak and there's no free play on the crank/spindle connection. The holes look good and square with no evident rounding etc. But still and all, they are pretty much all the way up the spindle, and that ain't right.

Jobst Brandt and others say grease on the spindle is no problem. Two local wrenches who I trust say absolutely no grease. What to do? I think I've been greasing 'em for years, and maybe that caused the problem?
see, i know that i need a torque wrench now in order to dismiss with all this guess work. if i had torqued the bolts to the recommeded level, it wouldn't have bottomed out.

no grease
yes torque wrench
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Old 11-20-05, 05:38 PM   #7
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so one more quick question (for now) before i'm off to buy a torque wrench:

is there any way to detect a different between JIS and ISO spindles by "eyeballing" or measuring? i'm not sure which taper my phil BB is the more confusing this gets.

thanks.
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Old 11-20-05, 06:14 PM   #8
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did you check out the phil wood website? they have the listings of BB spindle types on there if you know the model number....here is the pdf of the stainless steel models

http://www.philwood.com/Price%20List...racketSets.pdf
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Old 11-20-05, 06:22 PM   #9
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Try 107mm shimano BB now with that miche. JIS and ISO have same taper angles, but JIS is slightly larger. so worn taper of your miche might work fine with JIS now.
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Old 11-20-05, 08:43 PM   #10
habitus
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did you check out the phil wood website? they have the listings of BB spindle types on there if you know the model number....here is the pdf of the stainless steel models

http://www.philwood.com/Price%20List...racketSets.pdf
yeah, i just emailed phil with pics of my BB to see if they can help.

i think i might have to pop the bearings out to get to a serial number on the spindle.

these cranks are done. i don't think i want to try them with another BB. once i determine if the phil BB is ISO or JIS, i'll get cranks that are compatibile and go from there!
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Old 11-20-05, 11:03 PM   #11
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sorry to keep botherin' about this, but i'm trying to figure this out so i can move on...

see my post in mechanics about ISO/JIS difference: is this valid?
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...90#post1832590
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Old 11-21-05, 11:40 AM   #12
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Interesting, apart from being bottomed out, the crank seems to be in decent condition.

As for the grease/no grease question, there's a really nice long thread here where the question is fully explored. The final answer in my book comes down to, there seem to be good reasons to grease and the only reason not to is, "that's what I've always been told."
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Old 11-21-05, 08:41 PM   #13
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Interesting, apart from being bottomed out, the crank seems to be in decent condition.

As for the grease/no grease question, there's a really nice long thread here where the question is fully explored. The final answer in my book comes down to, there seem to be good reasons to grease and the only reason not to is, "that's what I've always been told."
trevor, would you expect other damage on the cranks? yeah, they're in decent condition, but only recently did i damage them. haven't been riding with them like that for more than a couple weeks.

honestly, i think i just torqued it too much with the grease on there. it wasn't the grease that caused the damage--it was me!--but i could get the cranks deeper on the spindle with it on there. i picked up a torque wrench yesterday and was surprised what 400 in-lbs felt like! less than i thought.

oh, and brent @ phil wood confirmed that my BB is in fact ISO. yay for fact!
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Old 11-21-05, 09:21 PM   #14
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trevor, would you expect other damage on the cranks?
Pincushioning is usually the order of the day.
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